Hannah Montana and the sexualization of children

[Juan_Bottom]

What is with programs about teenager's target audience being little kids? I don't understand why Hannah Montana(to single out one) is a show for 8 year old girls. Is that not a completely silly role model?

And why the hell is Wal*Mart selling "training bras" to seven year olds? Even make-up kits?
Bratz Dolls are taking space away from Barbie, and yet they ain't helping. They are pretty literly tramp dolls.

Are we teaching children to dress sexy to feel self-worth?

What is the cure? Are we trying to get kids to get themselves pregnant or something?

[austrianeagle]

Maybe we followed the money without thinking about the consquences and ended up in the middle of hell.

[Hologram]

Eh. Cultures shift. Who cares if the next generation is more free with their bodies? Sexual morality is a construct.

[Frigidus]

Sex sells to all ages apparently...I do wonder when this first started become publicly acceptable though.

[jnd94]

Survival of the Fittest.

The smart ones with smart people around them will learn not to do what they do. The others will get pregnant and have shitty lives.

[muy_thaiguy]

What is with programs about teenager's target audience being little kids? I don't understand why Hannah Montana(to single out one) is a show for 8 year old girls. Is that not a completely silly role model?

And why the hell is Wal*Mart selling "training bras" to seven year olds? Even make-up kits?
Bratz Dolls are taking space away from Barbie, and yet they ain't helping. They are pretty literly tramp dolls.

Are we teaching children to dress sexy to feel self-worth?

What is the cure? Are we trying to get kids to get themselves pregnant or something?

A little late on the uptake, by about 3-4 generations. Look at Madonna, Britney Spears, and all the others. Besides, its not the programs I have a problem with, it is the parents that actually buy the stuff that worries me.

[austrianeagle]

Eh. Cultures shift. Who cares if the next generation is more free with their bodies? Sexual morality is a construct.

True enough, though I still think that it is slightly disturbing

[Hologram]

Eh. Cultures shift. Who cares if the next generation is more free with their bodies? Sexual morality is a construct.

True enough, though I still think that it is slightly disturbing

That's just our (yes, mine too) cultural conditioning we've had.

Sure, being a slut has some physical effects that are less than great, but bear in mind that boys of 11 whose balls had barely dropped used to marry girls of 7 that had yet to have their first period. There's really nothing wrong with it, other than what other people say.

[jnd94]

Well that was at a time where that needed to happen. The age average has jumped significantly since the middle ages.

[austrianeagle]

Morality is subjective and is simply the cultural norms but still as a reactionary I still am ill at ease.

[Hologram]

Well that was at a time where that needed to happen. The age average has jumped significantly since the middle ages.

So? Puberty is puberty. If you can reproduce at 11, why wouldn't you?

[Frigidus]

Well that was at a time where that needed to happen. The age average has jumped significantly since the middle ages.

So? Puberty is puberty. If you can reproduce at 11, why wouldn't you?

Well, not being able to realistically provide for your children for one.

[PLAYER57832]

Survival of the Fittest.

The smart ones with smart people around them will learn not to do what they do. The others will get pregnant and have shitty lives.

Except, if I understand my evolution correctly, the "fittest" is the one who produces the most kids and pass on their genes to the most offspring.

[GabonX]

Are we teaching children to dress sexy to feel self-worth?

What is the cure?

Islam

For better or worse it's probably going to take over the world

[PLAYER57832]

What is with programs about teenager's target audience being little kids? I don't understand why Hannah Montana(to single out one) is a show for 8 year old girls. Is that not a completely silly role model?

And why the hell is Wal*Mart selling "training bras" to seven year olds? Even make-up kits?
Bratz Dolls are taking space away from Barbie, and yet they ain't helping. They are pretty literly tramp dolls.

Are we teaching children to dress sexy to feel self-worth?

What is the cure? Are we trying to get kids to get themselves pregnant or something?

A little late on the uptake, by about 3-4 generations. Look at Madonna, Britney Spears, and all the others. Besides, its not the programs I have a problem with, it is the parents that actually buy the stuff that worries me.

I agree, but have you seen what's available in the stores lately?

I am thankful to have boys, but I occasionally shop for my nieces, etc. In our area you have a very hard time finding anything NOT "Hanna Montana".

Plus, at some point, when everyone else really IS wearing it... making too much of an issue just makes them want it more. (or act out in ways that are worse).

Parents are caught between a rock and a hard place. I don't know what the answer is.

[Snorri1234]

Survival of the Fittest.

The smart ones with smart people around them will learn not to do what they do. The others will get pregnant and have shitty lives.

No, they will have babies and therefore pass on their genes. That's exactly the reason it happens.

[Hologram]

Well that was at a time where that needed to happen. The age average has jumped significantly since the middle ages.

So? Puberty is puberty. If you can reproduce at 11, why wouldn't you?

Well, not being able to realistically provide for your children for one.

Another thing that has to do with culture though. In our culture we don't let kids work and force them to go to school until they're 18. It's not a good way to let pregnant teens provide for their kids.

[Ditocoaf]

Eh. Cultures shift. Who cares if the next generation is more free with their bodies? Sexual morality is a construct.

To me, this isn't about being free with their bodies, it's about teaching them to advertise their bodies like a product they're selling. I believe in individual worth, and while it may still be torn down by the "morals are relative" standby, I think the dehumanization of any people is depressing.

Actually, scratch that concession to "morals are relative." How about this: I'm not going to use religious or societal standards of morals, I'm going to define ethics by an objective, absolute standard, using humanism as my basis. This is wrong because it will ultimately lead to a net unhappiness. Which means that: if these girls really do feel more fulfilled and happy in the end, having seen themselves as sexual objects since age 8, then by all means it's fine. But I doubt that it'll work out that way for the vast majority. Having a strong positive self-image is, I believe, proven to be important in the overall happiness of a human being, and this will wear away at that.

[InkL0sed]

Moral relativism doesn't hold much water.

[PLAYER57832]

Eh. Cultures shift. Who cares if the next generation is more free with their bodies? Sexual morality is a construct.

To me, this isn't about being free with their bodies, it's about teaching them to advertise their bodies like a product they're selling. I believe in individual worth, and while it may still be torn down by the "morals are relative" standby, I think the dehumanization of any people is depressing.

Actually, scratch that concession to "morals are relative." How about this: I'm not going to use religious or societal standards of morals, I'm going to define ethics by an objective, absolute standard, using humanism as my basis. This is wrong because it will ultimately lead to a net unhappiness. Which means that: if these girls really do feel more fulfilled and happy in the end, having seen themselves as sexual objects since age 8, then by all means it's fine. But I doubt that it'll work out that way for the vast majority. Having a strong positive self-image is, I believe, proven to be important in the overall happiness of a human being, and this will wear away at that.

I read somewhere that over 95% of girls who are in juvenile detention have been sexually abused, compared to just over 1/2 of the boys.

Sex, sexuality matters ... no matter how we pretend it doesn't.

But I think the root issue is not actually sexuality ... that is just one expression. I think it is materialism. The idea that any "stuff" will make us happy, as opposed to who we are and what we do.

[Hologram]

Moral relativism doesn't hold much water.

Of course it doesn't, because everyone thinks that their own morals are right.

Now, there are common themes, such as thou shalt not kill (at least not your friends' friends), but as far as sexuality goes, many cultures view sexuality in many different ways.

[PLAYER57832]

Moral relativism doesn't hold much water.

All morals are relative. They have to be. Almost nothing is absolute.

The worry comes not when we accept this, it is when we try to deny that.

[PLAYER57832]

Of course it doesn't, because everyone thinks that their own morals are right.

Now, there are common themes, such as thou shalt not kill (at least not your friends' friends), but as far as sexuality goes, many cultures view sexuality in many different ways.

Except I think that is really the issue here. This is not really about sexuality.

[Ditocoaf]

Of course it doesn't, because everyone thinks that their own morals are right.

Now, there are common themes, such as thou shalt not kill (at least not your friends' friends), but as far as sexuality goes, many cultures view sexuality in many different ways.

I'm not talking about socially acceptable morals. I'm talking about something else, I'm talking about what makes people happy, and that is important. I believe that this will end up with an overall loss of happiness in the long run. I don't care if something is unappealing to me or to society, if it makes people happy and hurts no-one. In that case, it is a good thing. But if society condones it, even if I condone it, and it's hurting people more than it's making people happy, then it is not a good thing. That is my standard.

This is still "relative," you can say, but it's definite: If what makes people happy changes, then what's right changes. But what's right doesn't depend on personal opinion. This is my humanist definition of morals.

[PLAYER57832]

Of course it doesn't, because everyone thinks that their own morals are right.

Now, there are common themes, such as thou shalt not kill (at least not your friends' friends), but as far as sexuality goes, many cultures view sexuality in many different ways.

I'm not talking about socially acceptable morals. I'm talking about something else, I'm talking about what makes people happy, and that is important. I believe that this will end up with an overall loss of happiness in the long run. I don't care if something is unappealing to me or to society, if it makes people happy and hurts no-one. In that case, it is a good thing. But if society condones it, even if I condone it, and it's hurting people more than it's making people happy, then it is not a good thing. That is my standard.

This is still "relative," you can say, but it's definite: If what makes people happy changes, then what's right changes. But what's right doesn't depend on personal opinion. This is my humanist definition of morals.

Except that people often choose things that make them unhappy. Partially because they don't always know what will make them happy in the long run.

That is where morals and teachings come in ... to help people get past the immediate "I want that chocolate bar" to "but that apple will keep me full longer and make me healthier".