Conquer Club

Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Topics that are not maps. Discuss general map making concepts, techniques, contests, etc, here.

Moderator: Cartographers

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby ViperOverLord on Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:44 pm

Even those of us who enjoy the Hive map dread the idea of digging out every remaining army of the opponent at the end of the game. It is a huge exercise in tedium. I think it'd be a good great idea to add a Queen Bee objective to the map. Then when games are virtually over, players can just kill that objective.

Reference: The Hive
User avatar
Major ViperOverLord
 
Posts: 2259
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:19 pm
Location: California
Medals: 130
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (30)
General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (31)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby DoomYoshi on Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:00 pm

A territory that every player can attack?
I will not stand for an America where reckless bankers and suicide bombers can make a mockery of our promise for tomorrow.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class DoomYoshi
 
Posts: 5685
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:30 pm
Location: Termina Field
Medals: 74
The Championships Gold (1) Standard Achievement (3) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2)
Terminator Achievement (1) Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (3) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2)
Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (2) General Achievement (8)
Clan Achievement (16) Tournament Contribution (6) General Contribution (5)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby Dukasaur on Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:18 pm

The foundry draws a pretty hard line on the issue of not taking liberties with people's maps without the mapmaker's permission. Exceptions are made if there is an obvious error, but this is not a bug report, just a suggestion for improvement. Your only hope is to get the mapmaker's permission. I see he is no longer active on CC, but he was active a long, long time, so maybe if you feel strongly about this you can start going through his team partners and stuff to see if someone has contact information for him.
Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
Balance personal rights with social duties.
Prize truth — beauty — love — seeking harmony with the infinite.
Be not a cancer on the earth — Leave room for nature — Leave room for nature.
User avatar
Colonel Dukasaur
Entertainment Coordinator
Entertainment Coordinator
 
Posts: 13530
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:49 pm
Location: Beautiful Niagara
Medals: 162
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (2) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (3) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (2) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (44)
General Achievement (15) Clan Achievement (9) Training Achievement (2) Challenge Achievement (5) Tournament Contribution (31)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby ViperOverLord on Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:53 pm

Dukasaur wrote:The foundry draws a pretty hard line on the issue of not taking liberties with people's maps without the mapmaker's permission. Exceptions are made if there is an obvious error, but this is not a bug report, just a suggestion for improvement. Your only hope is to get the mapmaker's permission. I see he is no longer active on CC, but he was active a long, long time, so maybe if you feel strongly about this you can start going through his team partners and stuff to see if someone has contact information for him.


Yea. He's been gone a few months. CC might want to eventually make this exception in the interest of making a profound improvement that affects a great many players.
User avatar
Major ViperOverLord
 
Posts: 2259
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:19 pm
Location: California
Medals: 130
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (30)
General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (31)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby koontz1973 on Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:01 am

ViperOverLord wrote:Yea. He's been gone a few months. CC might want to eventually make this exception in the interest of making a profound improvement that affects a great many players.

Widowmakers (who is still playing everyday here) did the art and has control over the copyright. Send him a PM with the thread link and ask for his input on this. He might be happy to add it in or he might let someone else do it. But you will need to get his permission.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class koontz1973
 
Posts: 7538
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:57 am
Medals: 117
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (10) General Achievement (13) Clan Achievement (5) Map Contribution (12)
Tournament Contribution (31) General Contribution (10)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby WidowMakers on Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:20 am

Interestign Idea.

Where is the Queen Bee territory?
Who can attack it?
When can they attack it?
What is the GP feature that allows thsi to be used only once the game is over?

Please sketch-up an idea on teh small map so we can see what you mean.
Image
Major WidowMakers
 
Posts: 2781
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Detroit, MI
Medals: 72
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (11) Map Contribution (21) General Contribution (14)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:47 am

WidowMakers wrote:Where is the Queen Bee territory?

Honey storage cell 3
WidowMakers wrote:Who can attack it?

Honey storage cells once a player has x amount of regions.
WidowMakers wrote:When can they attack it?

The game has 350 regions on it. How about hold 200 and you can hit the queen bee.
WidowMakers wrote:What is the GP feature that allows thsi to be used only once the game is over?

conditional borders. Set up a continent with all regions on it and a requirement of 200. Have a conditional border between the the honey storage cells and queen bee. Hold the bee and win the game.

In the legend, you have room in the honey cell section and monikers for the win condition.
Word it like this.
All Honey cells connect.
Honey cells attack the queen
when 200 combs are held.

This is double the wording you have now so it will be a squeeze but doable. You might have to jiggle the rest of the legend to make it fit though. This would ensure a win once the game is won. With the conditional border, you can set the neutral low (n3) as no one can attack it without holding 200 regions.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class koontz1973
 
Posts: 7538
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:57 am
Medals: 117
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (10) General Achievement (13) Clan Achievement (5) Map Contribution (12)
Tournament Contribution (31) General Contribution (10)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:30 am

Really!! Hive is a great map. Do not mess with it please. A territory like that will ruin this map.
Highest Rank: 26 Highest Score: 3480
Image
User avatar
Sergeant Bruceswar
 
Posts: 9642
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:36 am
Location: Cow Pastures
Medals: 141
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (4)
Terminator Achievement (3) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (14) General Achievement (14) Clan Achievement (19) Training Achievement (6) Map Contribution (1)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby koontz1973 on Fri Oct 18, 2013 11:53 am

Bruceswar wrote:Really!! Hive is a great map. Do not mess with it please. A territory like that will ruin this map.

But it would only be used after you have won the game and help to finish the games of. I have only played the map a few times and it is tedious at best to play when you have won the game, and down right horrible to play when you know you are going to lose.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class koontz1973
 
Posts: 7538
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:57 am
Medals: 117
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (10) General Achievement (13) Clan Achievement (5) Map Contribution (12)
Tournament Contribution (31) General Contribution (10)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby Bruceswar on Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:18 pm

koontz1973 wrote:
Bruceswar wrote:Really!! Hive is a great map. Do not mess with it please. A territory like that will ruin this map.

But it would only be used after you have won the game and help to finish the games of. I have only played the map a few times and it is tedious at best to play when you have won the game, and down right horrible to play when you know you are going to lose.



You have never turned a hive game around?? You need to play it more.
Highest Rank: 26 Highest Score: 3480
Image
User avatar
Sergeant Bruceswar
 
Posts: 9642
Joined: Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:36 am
Location: Cow Pastures
Medals: 141
Monthly Leader Bronze (1) Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (4) Triples Achievement (4) Quadruples Achievement (4)
Terminator Achievement (3) Assassin Achievement (3) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (4) Polymorphic Achievement (1)
Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (3)
Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4)
Tournament Achievement (14) General Achievement (14) Clan Achievement (19) Training Achievement (6) Map Contribution (1)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby WidowMakers on Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:41 pm

Now that I think about it, I agree with bruce.
There are many factors that can determine a game.
If the game is escalating spoils, the game might actually be won with a player who has less territories.

So lets just keep it the way it is.
Image
Major WidowMakers
 
Posts: 2781
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Detroit, MI
Medals: 72
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (11) Map Contribution (21) General Contribution (14)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:01 am

WidowMakers wrote:Now that I think about it, I agree with bruce.
There are many factors that can determine a game.
If the game is escalating spoils, the game might actually be won with a player who has less territories.

So lets just keep it the way it is.

Thanks for popping by WM. Glad to see an old mapmaker take an interest even if it is fleeting.
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class koontz1973
 
Posts: 7538
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:57 am
Medals: 117
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (10) General Achievement (13) Clan Achievement (5) Map Contribution (12)
Tournament Contribution (31) General Contribution (10)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby WidowMakers on Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:57 am

koontz1973 wrote:
WidowMakers wrote:Now that I think about it, I agree with bruce.
There are many factors that can determine a game.
If the game is escalating spoils, the game might actually be won with a player who has less territories.

So lets just keep it the way it is.

Thanks for popping by WM. Glad to see an old mapmaker take an interest even if it is fleeting.

np. Glad to chat about map stuff again even for a little bit.
Image
Major WidowMakers
 
Posts: 2781
Joined: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:25 am
Location: Detroit, MI
Medals: 72
Standard Achievement (2) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Fog of War Achievement (2) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Ratings Achievement (2)
General Achievement (6) Clan Achievement (11) Map Contribution (21) General Contribution (14)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby ViperOverLord on Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:47 pm

WidowMakers wrote:Now that I think about it, I agree with bruce.
There are many factors that can determine a game.
If the game is escalating spoils, the game might actually be won with a player who has less territories.

So lets just keep it the way it is.


Bruce is wrong. And I realize it's a subjective argument, so I say wrong from the standpoint of Hive bugs the heck out of most people because off all the tedious attacks. An objective would a very welcome sight to the majority of players.

WidowMakers wrote:Now that I think about it, I agree with bruce.
There are many factors that can determine a game.
If the game is escalating spoils, the game might actually be won with a player who has less territories.

So lets just keep it the way it is.


Even in escalating, an objective would be a very welcome objective. A player could decide to go for objective or territories. And often, a player will just say 'go for the objective' to save everyone an arse full of time. And in such an event, it would allow a more enhanced strategy as players would have to be weary of spreading to fast and being lambasted (in the event of a very conquerable objective).

WidowMakers wrote:Interestign Idea.

Where is the Queen Bee territory?
Who can attack it?
When can they attack it?
What is the GP feature that allows thsi to be used only once the game is over?

Please sketch-up an idea on teh small map so we can see what you mean.


Where? Well first off, the point is that there should be one. Where is really just a matter of preference. Relative to just having an objective, I don't care where the objective would be. I'd go for realism and go for center of the map; presuming that's where a queen bee typically hangs out.

Who can attack it? Anyone that borders it; or perhaps canals if that's how a hive works.

When can they attack? Anytime, I would think.

I don't feel like the debate should be is this an enhancement or not. It would be to at least 90 percent of the community. The debate would probably be would you want an objective that's part of the game 30-50 armies or something that is just a formality 100-200 armies.
User avatar
Major ViperOverLord
 
Posts: 2259
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:19 pm
Location: California
Medals: 130
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (30)
General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (31)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby dakky21 on Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:46 pm

There should be a map named 'Hive 2' with Objective, different graphics theme and perhaps some bees killing wasps and hornets, all by killing (neutral) territories... so we acomplish both at same time... new map & new gameplay
User avatar
Major dakky21
Chatter
Chatter
 
Posts: 1122
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 3:27 am
Location: Rijeka, Croatia
Medals: 97
Standard Achievement (1) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (1)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (1) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (3)
Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3)
Beta Map Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (9) General Achievement (22) Clan Achievement (28)
Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (2) General Contribution (1)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby ViperOverLord on Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:57 pm

dakky21 wrote:There should be a map named 'Hive 2' with Objective, different graphics theme and perhaps some bees killing wasps and hornets, all by killing (neutral) territories... so we acomplish both at same time... new map & new gameplay


Disagree. People would still be routinely subjected to a the mind numbing Hive 1 in clan battles, tourneys and random.
User avatar
Major ViperOverLord
 
Posts: 2259
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:19 pm
Location: California
Medals: 130
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (3) Triples Achievement (3) Quadruples Achievement (3) Terminator Achievement (3)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (3) Freestyle Achievement (3) Polymorphic Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2)
Fog of War Achievement (4) Trench Warfare Achievement (2) Speed Achievement (4) Teammate Achievement (2) Random Map Achievement (3)
Cross-Map Achievement (4) Beta Map Achievement (1) Battle Royale Achievement (1) Ratings Achievement (3) Tournament Achievement (30)
General Achievement (7) Clan Achievement (10) Challenge Achievement (1) Tournament Contribution (31)

Re: Hive Suggestion: Add a Queen Bee Objective

Postby koontz1973 on Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:23 am

ViperOverLord wrote:
dakky21 wrote:There should be a map named 'Hive 2' with Objective, different graphics theme and perhaps some bees killing wasps and hornets, all by killing (neutral) territories... so we acomplish both at same time... new map & new gameplay


Disagree. People would still be routinely subjected to a the mind numbing Hive 1 in clan battles, tourneys and random.

And this is why I never play it. The last time I was on the receiving end of a flat game, so many rounds to be killed of it was a nightmare to play.

Another option and an idea as we can limit maps now for the larger game, how about trying to limit this to +4 players only?
Image
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class koontz1973
 
Posts: 7538
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 10:57 am
Medals: 117
Standard Achievement (4) Doubles Achievement (2) Triples Achievement (2) Quadruples Achievement (2) Terminator Achievement (2)
Assassin Achievement (2) Manual Troops Achievement (2) Freestyle Achievement (1) Nuclear Spoils Achievement (2) Fog of War Achievement (4)
Trench Warfare Achievement (1) Teammate Achievement (1) Random Map Achievement (2) Cross-Map Achievement (3) Beta Map Achievement (2)
Ratings Achievement (4) Tournament Achievement (10) General Achievement (13) Clan Achievement (5) Map Contribution (12)
Tournament Contribution (31) General Contribution (10)


Return to Foundry Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron