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Balance Not Included Mafia 4/12 D4: Nothing to Balance

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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby StorrZerg on Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:03 pm

jonty125 wrote:StorrZerg's vote is seriously rubbish,
StorrZerg wrote:Now virus failed to read OP

this makes me think he is scum
reading the OP and been scum are independent of each other. so my vote is now a serious vote on Zerg.

Also, virus' comment was a joke before D1 started, so in my eyes, you can't read anything from it, and I believe that by trying to construct a case from said post is scummy.



Reasoning was 2 part jonty. I'd hardly consider outing someone as a role with your first post a joke.
The joke was after role pms got sent. Thus virus had his alignment at this point.

If this game had vt, he looks less scum.

Is this case weak. Sure. Does it mean it doesn't have merit? No. It is something worth talking about rather than joke votes for 2 days.


Your thoughts jonty?
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby pancakemix on Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:07 pm

jonty125 wrote:StorrZerg's vote is seriously rubbish,
StorrZerg wrote:Now virus failed to read OP

this makes me think he is scum
reading the OP and been scum are independent of each other. so my vote is now a serious vote on Zerg.

Also, virus' comment was a joke before D1 started, so in my eyes, you can't read anything from it, and I believe that by trying to construct a case from said post is scummy.


You make it sound so non sequitur when you're not looking at the actual point Storr was making (or at least the part that would be relevant to making a case). Virus stated that he didn't think spiesr was a VT, which seems like an attempt to out a power role. THAT is scummy.

Now, I'm not saying that not reading the OP is grounds for lynching (though it is advisable), but your neglect and possibly your willful refusal to analyze the case further than that single post is disconcerting and something I will be mindful of later.

FP'd by Storr, who said exactly what I said.
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby mtamburini on Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:08 pm

Ive used fake votes to trap people before so inclination is town right now.
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby mtamburini on Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:10 pm

pancakemix wrote:
jonty125 wrote:StorrZerg's vote is seriously rubbish,
StorrZerg wrote:Now virus failed to read OP

this makes me think he is scum
reading the OP and been scum are independent of each other. so my vote is now a serious vote on Zerg.

Also, virus' comment was a joke before D1 started, so in my eyes, you can't read anything from it, and I believe that by trying to construct a case from said post is scummy.


You make it sound so non sequitur when you're not looking at the actual point Storr was making (or at least the part that would be relevant to making a case). Virus stated that he didn't think spiesr was a VT, which seems like an attempt to out a power role. THAT is scummy.

Now, I'm not saying that not reading the OP is grounds for lynching (though it is advisable), but your neglect and possibly your willful refusal to analyze the case further than that single post is disconcerting and something I will be mindful of later.

FP'd by Storr, who said exactly what I said.


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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby mtamburini on Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:23 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:In this case it's not scummy that he forgot to read the rules, it's just silly


I agree

StorrZerg wrote:i disagree mets. and i have stated why.

i wait virus response


You know from experience I never read the rules right? Can you give me more detail why this would be different ?
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby StorrZerg on Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:35 pm

mtamburini wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:In this case it's not scummy that he forgot to read the rules, it's just silly


I agree

StorrZerg wrote:i disagree mets. and i have stated why.

i wait virus response


You know from experience I never read the rules right? Can you give me more detail why this would be different ?


The case isn't about him being scum for not reading the rules, it is his actions knowing he did not.

If he had read the rules and made the comment, it's clearly a joke.

Yet he admitted to not reading them.
So from his mindset he honestly thought he was reading a power role or a mafia. I see a power role virus being more careful with this kind of comment and not making it. And a mafia virus more willing to share it.

I think it is unlikely virus and spiesr are together as both mafia with the initial interactions.
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby StorrZerg on Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:36 pm

mtamburini wrote:Ive used fake votes to trap people before so inclination is town right now.


On day 1 joke phase? 1 hour into game?
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby mtamburini on Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:01 pm

StorrZerg wrote:
mtamburini wrote:
Metsfanmax wrote:In this case it's not scummy that he forgot to read the rules, it's just silly


I agree

StorrZerg wrote:i disagree mets. and i have stated why.

i wait virus response


You know from experience I never read the rules right? Can you give me more detail why this would be different ?


The case isn't about him being scum for not reading the rules, it is his actions knowing he did not.

If he had read the rules and made the comment, it's clearly a joke.

Yet he admitted to not reading them.
So from his mindset he honestly thought he was reading a power role or a mafia. I see a power role virus being more careful with this kind of comment and not making it. And a mafia virus more willing to share it.

I think it is unlikely virus and spiesr are together as both mafia with the initial interactions.


I dont think he openly admits he hasnt read the rules as mafia, that is where I was getting at
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby mtamburini on Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:04 pm

StorrZerg wrote:
mtamburini wrote:Ive used fake votes to trap people before so inclination is town right now.


On day 1 joke phase? 1 hour into game?


Ill take that into consideration in later days if we are both alive. But ill sit in his pocket for now if he is scum.
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby StorrZerg on Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:12 pm

This was more of a question if you have tried to bait someone with a fake vote very early in day 1 / joke stage
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby StorrZerg on Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:13 pm

Personally I'm getting a town read for a different reason
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby mtamburini on Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:13 pm

StorrZerg wrote:This was more of a question if you have tried to bait someone with a fake vote very early in day 1 / joke stage


No I skip over joke stage most of the time
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby HotShot53 on Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:11 pm

*reads a page of mtam and storr, and wonders if anyone else is playing this game... *

I may not be as active as normal this week myself, we have a major tax deadline on September 15th that I am working crazy hours for.

So basically the case on virus is he was trying to out a power role... and the case he is town is that he wouldn't have admitted not reading the rules if he was scum. I'd say it's a coin flip right now... I'm leaning slightly on the town side though, since I agree that scum is more likely to try to fly under the radar, especially earlier on. (It worked for us the last mafia game I played, most of my teammates were getting accused of scummarizing because they were rarely posting, especially on day 1... and it turns out the accusers were correct, but couldn't get enough support to actually lynch any of us because we didn't post anything inflammatory enough)

I don't buy the case on Storr for the same reason, at least he's trying to get something going, and I had the same thought initially also that virus' post sounded fishy.

Silver_Samus wrote:I'm gonna go ahead and Vote Storrzerg.

It's totally unbalanced to have him in this game, better to have him out and restore balance.


Umm... the joke vote stage was pretty much over a day or two ago... and since you were obviously on the forums and posting, but didn't even make a comment on the currently discussed cases, I will call this the best example of scummarizing so far and vote silver samus
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby mtamburini on Mon Sep 08, 2014 3:30 pm

HotShot53 wrote:*reads a page of mtam and storr, and wonders if anyone else is playing this game... *

I may not be as active as normal this week myself, we have a major tax deadline on September 15th that I am working crazy hours for.

So basically the case on virus is he was trying to out a power role... and the case he is town is that he wouldn't have admitted not reading the rules if he was scum. I'd say it's a coin flip right now... I'm leaning slightly on the town side though, since I agree that scum is more likely to try to fly under the radar, especially earlier on. (It worked for us the last mafia game I played, most of my teammates were getting accused of scummarizing because they were rarely posting, especially on day 1... and it turns out the accusers were correct, but couldn't get enough support to actually lynch any of us because we didn't post anything inflammatory enough)

I don't buy the case on Storr for the same reason, at least he's trying to get something going, and I had the same thought initially also that virus' post sounded fishy.

Silver_Samus wrote:I'm gonna go ahead and Vote Storrzerg.

It's totally unbalanced to have him in this game, better to have him out and restore balance.


Umm... the joke vote stage was pretty much over a day or two ago... and since you were obviously on the forums and posting, but didn't even make a comment on the currently discussed cases, I will call this the best example of scummarizing so far and vote silver samus


Once again you have successfully gained my trust hotshot.
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby spiesr on Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:20 pm

Iron Butterfly wrote:I am going to also assume you believe DJ to be scum with your vote? I say this because one could easily ask your question of DJ without voting.
I believe him to be scum with the level of confidence required to cast a vote early on Day 1. That is the point where you jump on anything you can find and are liberal with the application of actual votes.
Iron Butterfly wrote:How do you feel your question of DJ advances the discussion on Virus or makes DJ mafia per your vote?
It doesn't advance the discussion on Virus, it starts a seed of an alternative to it. There is a distinct probability that we will reach a point today where we decide that we won't be lynching Virus off of what have. Should that happen we will want to have any inklings of other discussion we can.
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby virus90 on Mon Sep 08, 2014 5:23 pm

HotShot53 wrote:*reads a page of mtam and storr, and wonders if anyone else is playing this game... *

I may not be as active as normal this week myself, we have a major tax deadline on September 15th that I am working crazy hours for.

So basically the case on virus is he was trying to out a power role... and the case he is town is that he wouldn't have admitted not reading the rules if he was scum. I'd say it's a coin flip right now... I'm leaning slightly on the town side though, since I agree that scum is more likely to try to fly under the radar, especially earlier on. (It worked for us the last mafia game I played, most of my teammates were getting accused of scummarizing because they were rarely posting, especially on day 1... and it turns out the accusers were correct, but couldn't get enough support to actually lynch any of us because we didn't post anything inflammatory enough)


Yes im playing aswell, but i now use my 5th ? amendment? (Dutch so i dont have a clue about the US-constitution except that 2nd is guns :P) since im a suspect at the moment, and i learned that endlesly defending yourself usually gets more people suspicious on you then it gets people of, especially day 1. but well thats mafia.

And i have seen the Storr - Mtam fights before, i usually tend to say: Guys keep it down, so Guys keep it down, please keep it friendly.
what sparked things off this time?... :-k
And its not helping much. (besides that it distracts from the case on me; so actually, please continue! ;) as usual this part is sarcastic/ironic/cynic)

im off to bed, tomorrow might be busy, will see how much i procrastinate

fp by spiesr
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby StorrZerg on Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:32 pm

virus90 wrote:
HotShot53 wrote:*reads a page of mtam and storr, and wonders if anyone else is playing this game... *

I may not be as active as normal this week myself, we have a major tax deadline on September 15th that I am working crazy hours for.

So basically the case on virus is he was trying to out a power role... and the case he is town is that he wouldn't have admitted not reading the rules if he was scum. I'd say it's a coin flip right now... I'm leaning slightly on the town side though, since I agree that scum is more likely to try to fly under the radar, especially earlier on. (It worked for us the last mafia game I played, most of my teammates were getting accused of scummarizing because they were rarely posting, especially on day 1... and it turns out the accusers were correct, but couldn't get enough support to actually lynch any of us because we didn't post anything inflammatory enough)


Yes im playing aswell, but i now use my 5th ? amendment? (Dutch so i dont have a clue about the US-constitution except that 2nd is guns :P) since im a suspect at the moment, and i learned that endlesly defending yourself usually gets more people suspicious on you then it gets people of, especially day 1. but well thats mafia.

And i have seen the Storr - Mtam fights before, i usually tend to say: Guys keep it down, so Guys keep it down, please keep it friendly.
what sparked things off this time?... :-k
And its not helping much. (besides that it distracts from the case on me; so actually, please continue! ;) as usual this part is sarcastic/ironic/cynic)

im off to bed, tomorrow might be busy, will see how much i procrastinate

fp by spiesr


link to the storr-mtamb fight plz
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:07 pm

HotShot53 wrote:So basically the case on virus is he was trying to out a power role...


The power role outed himself. All virus did was make a joke about it. Let's move on from that. virus could be scum or he could be town, but we're never going to know from that one post, and virus is (intelligently) not going to get in the middle of it. So let's move on to more interesting things, like who the hell mtamburini is.
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby mtamburini on Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:39 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
HotShot53 wrote:So basically the case on virus is he was trying to out a power role...


The power role outed himself. All virus did was make a joke about it. Let's move on from that. virus could be scum or he could be town, but we're never going to know from that one post, and virus is (intelligently) not going to get in the middle of it. So let's move on to more interesting things, like who the hell mtamburini is.


We could lynch him and find out.
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby mtamburini on Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:17 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
HotShot53 wrote:So basically the case on virus is he was trying to out a power role...


The power role outed himself. All virus did was make a joke about it. Let's move on from that. virus could be scum or he could be town, but we're never going to know from that one post, and virus is (intelligently) not going to get in the middle of it. So let's move on to more interesting things, like who the hell mtamburini is.


You acting kinda shady, aint calling me baby. Why the sudden change?

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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby Iron Butterfly on Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:22 pm

spiesr wrote:
Iron Butterfly wrote:I am going to also assume you believe DJ to be scum with your vote? I say this because one could easily ask your question of DJ without voting.
I believe him to be scum with the level of confidence required to cast a vote early on Day 1. That is the point where you jump on anything you can find and are liberal with the application of actual votes.
Iron Butterfly wrote:How do you feel your question of DJ advances the discussion on Virus or makes DJ mafia per your vote?
It doesn't advance the discussion on Virus, it starts a seed of an alternative to it. There is a distinct probability that we will reach a point today where we decide that we won't be lynching Virus off of what have. Should that happen we will want to have any inklings of other discussion we can.


You pretty much voted on a nothing case while ignoring Storr's push on Virus especially when the center of the discussion revolves around you. While I understand the need for alternative cases your timing was odd. Met pretty much summed your vote as "The Police of Good Discussion", which I find accurate.
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby strike wolf on Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:18 pm

strike wolf wrote:Vote Count

DJfireside (1)-Spiesr
Virus90 (2)-Storr, Pancake
MetsfanMax (1)-Virus
Storrzerg (2)-Jamesker, Silver Samus
Silver Samus (1)-Hotshot

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby pancakemix on Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:18 am

mtamburini wrote:Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah (Thats a sheep noise for people who have never met a sheep before.)


I'm entitled to my opinion, even if is the same as someone else's. And the fact that I'm interested in having the game progress. It's not a great case but it's certainly more than nothing.

The power role outed himself. All virus did was make a joke about it. Let's move on from that. virus could be scum or he could be town, but we're never going to know from that one post, and virus is (intelligently) not going to get in the middle of it. So let's move on to more interesting things, like who the hell mtamburini is.


You do realize a lot of role pms contain the phrasing that spiesr used, right? He was making a joke. You know how people make jokes when they confirm? Y'know? Apparently virus missed that, and decided to say "Aha! You're not a VT!" Tell me: what does it serve to even say that? This shouldn't be about reading the rules. It ought to be about rolefishing.
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby Silver_Samus on Tue Sep 09, 2014 12:41 am

HotShot53 wrote:*reads a page of mtam and storr, and wonders if anyone else is playing this game... *

I may not be as active as normal this week myself, we have a major tax deadline on September 15th that I am working crazy hours for.

So basically the case on virus is he was trying to out a power role... and the case he is town is that he wouldn't have admitted not reading the rules if he was scum. I'd say it's a coin flip right now... I'm leaning slightly on the town side though, since I agree that scum is more likely to try to fly under the radar, especially earlier on. (It worked for us the last mafia game I played, most of my teammates were getting accused of scummarizing because they were rarely posting, especially on day 1... and it turns out the accusers were correct, but couldn't get enough support to actually lynch any of us because we didn't post anything inflammatory enough)

I don't buy the case on Storr for the same reason, at least he's trying to get something going, and I had the same thought initially also that virus' post sounded fishy.

Silver_Samus wrote:I'm gonna go ahead and Vote Storrzerg.

It's totally unbalanced to have him in this game, better to have him out and restore balance.


Umm... the joke vote stage was pretty much over a day or two ago... and since you were obviously on the forums and posting, but didn't even make a comment on the currently discussed cases, I will call this the best example of scummarizing so far and vote silver samus


The first vote was on 6th September, a Saturday. I was definitely NOT active during last weekend. I made my first post on Monday morning. I'll be damned if i'm not going to make at least 1 joke vote on my first game here.

My reason for not jumping on that particular case is simple: observation. It's rather difficult to come in here and have a good read on people who I don't know from the start.
However, this in particular has caught my attention:

Metsfanmax wrote:
StorrZerg wrote:i disagree mets. and i have stated why.

i wait virus response


Your first reason is pretty weak -- virus is too experienced to make such a blatant mistake, I think. Still, I'll see what virus says.

As for your second -- this is "balance not included" mafia. My guess is that {i]no one[/i] is like anyone else. When there are no VTs, the only thing that makes us similar is alignment.


Most cases are weak on Day 1. If you say virus is an experienced mafia player, I'll take your word for it. But that makes it even worse for him to make a post like that.
There is nothing wrong developing the case on virus for his post, yet you jump to his defense from the start. Suspicious.

Gotta start somewhere, right?

Unvote, vote Mets
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Re: Balance Not Included Mafia 12/12 D1: Skewed

Postby StorrZerg on Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:06 am

tbh we can always lynch virus for lying.
I'm just kinda curious why he thought me and tambo "fighting" is a thing. considering he has seen us "fight"


And i have seen the Storr - Mtam fights before, i usually tend to say: Guys keep it down, so Guys keep it down, please keep it friendly.


Please can you reference a game you are talking about? Cause. This has never happened. 1 all 3 of us being in the same game. 2. tamb and i both being in the same game on the main cc thread. (i dont think you have access to our clan mafia games)
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