Warned josko.ri -- game throwing [ka]

[josko.ri]

I'm not saying this because I won the game but that is a very good strategy. I know I did it last year in at least 2 games both times against josko.ri and I would of won the tournament except for some tiebreaker lost me 1st to josko.ri. I honestly see nothing wrong with this, it strategy and it a good one.

To this case I refer in the first post when telling that others did this strategy vs me multiple times so I thought it is valid strategy.

For example, DBandit70 won Game 19284913 and came to the top of the Leadeboard and then suicided into me in final turn or close to final turn of four other games Game 19284916, Game 19284915, Game 19284914 and Game 19284912 to prevent me to take back the top Leaderboard place from him. Although my feeling of losing because of his suicides was not good, I did not see his actions as against rules and never reported him for his actions. Simply, he played strategy which he considered the most beneficial for his winning of the tournament.

[DBandit70]

lol didn't realize I did it that many times sorry, but yea its a good strategy

[josko.ri]

lol didn't realize I did it that many times sorry, but yea its a good strategy

If it is declared as against CC rules, then both me and you should get a disciplinary action against us.

[Mad777]

I'm not saying this because I won the game but that is a very good strategy. I know I did it last year in at least 2 games both times against josko.ri and I would of won the tournament except for some tiebreaker lost me 1st to josko.ri. I honestly see nothing wrong with this, it strategy and it a good one.

To this case I refer in the first post when telling that others did this strategy vs me multiple times so I thought it is valid strategy.

For example, DBandit70 won Game 19284913 and came to the top of the Leadeboard and then suicided into me in final turn or close to final turn of four other games Game 19284916, Game 19284915, Game 19284914 and Game 19284912 to prevent me to take back the top Leaderboard place from him. Although my feeling of losing because of his suicides was not good, I did not see his actions as against rules and never reported him for his actions. Simply, he played strategy which he considered the most beneficial for his winning of the tournament.

As said this exemple tells about last round of that tournament and those who did it worked those action among themselves with the intention to win, again, it occurred during the last round, last games. Not comparable to this current thread.
Here we are talking about the action was done in round 3 out of 5 and with 14 games remaining to play (+1 in round 3 still ongoing, so its 15 games).

[josko.ri]

I'm not saying this because I won the game but that is a very good strategy. I know I did it last year in at least 2 games both times against josko.ri and I would of won the tournament except for some tiebreaker lost me 1st to josko.ri. I honestly see nothing wrong with this, it strategy and it a good one.

To this case I refer in the first post when telling that others did this strategy vs me multiple times so I thought it is valid strategy.

For example, DBandit70 won Game 19284913 and came to the top of the Leadeboard and then suicided into me in final turn or close to final turn of four other games Game 19284916, Game 19284915, Game 19284914 and Game 19284912 to prevent me to take back the top Leaderboard place from him. Although my feeling of losing because of his suicides was not good, I did not see his actions as against rules and never reported him for his actions. Simply, he played strategy which he considered the most beneficial for his winning of the tournament.

As said this exemple tells about last round of that tournament and those who did it worked those action among themselves with the intention to win, again, it occurred during the last round, last games. Not comparable to this current thread.
Here we are talking about the action was done in round 3 out of 5 and with 14 games remaining to play (+1 in round 3 still ongoing, so its 15 games).

It is irrelevant how much rounds is left until the end of the tournament, intention matters as the rule framework. And intention in both cases was the same, to prevent player who is in race with you for the tournament title to achieve the game win.

[Mad777]

well....I have not said that exemple was within the rule neither but you have to admit doing such shows more sense toward the last series of games when you have no other factor to use than the current games, and very close to ensure you can win the tournament, at least you would really have solid material to defend the action since it would be visible by everyone, doing it at any stage with the purpose of hypothetically winning the tournament is barely impossible to defend, don’t you think? You are one of the most strategic player CC ever seen (I said it the good way) and i’m sure you know exactly where i’m coming from. Being as one of the best player of the site doesn’t give you crystal ball vision 15 games ahead doing such. You also have to admit it would be more fair and understandable doing such during the last rounds of the last game of any tournament, if those kind of action were seeing acceptable, would make more sense to everyone. Again and if everyone would adopt this strategy, then everyone will start suiciding, throwing game round 1, just in case...Can’t imagine how enjoyable this would be seen. I talk about my exemple since i’m 2 points behind you and ZaBeast and even before that Great Lake ended i could have adopt the same, suicide against you in one game and against Zabeast in the other, or to both of you if I would have the opportunity and this to hope staying close in the ranking, saying so would be as valid as your statement since between 14 games remaining i would have the right to say i could win 2 or more and join you in the ranking that way...see? All it is is « hypothetical » statement that have no place at the stage of such tournaments because all I will do is ruining games to other, just in case.
Hope you see deeper what i’m trying to layout, because this topic is not at the Monster Royale level but at the whole tournament experience aspect.

[josko.ri]

IMO this practice should either be allowed or disallowed by rules, regardless of which stage of the tournament there is.

[ZaBeast]

I do believe the caff suiciding into nolefan case has actually a lot of relevance here. viewtopic.php?f=239&t=215275&start=25#p4738783
The ruling was that caff suicided hoping to advance, and that was different than suiciding so he would advance. I believe the same should be said here. Suiciding hoping to get an edge later is not the same as suiciding to win a tournament.

After discussion we have decided this is actually original and different from the other tournament advancement precedents.
Iamcaffeine has suicided on the hope that he (or she) may advance, not to guarantee he would advance.
Given that this is different to the other previous cases and that we have no guarantee that the action of caff would see him advance, This case is NOTED

Obviously this tactic doesn't suck if you're not in the receiving end. Nothing lost on josko's side, apart from a game he would have lost anyways, and potentially a slap-in-the-wrist warning. On the other hand I would probably have placed in the top10 most improved for the month if it wasn't for that loss. While I disagree with suiciding to win a tournament, I can see why some would see it as a legitimate tactic. Doing the same this early just makes it a dick move.

[emilywink]

Full disclosure: I am married to josko and in love with him and have many conflicts of interest here.

But regarding:
"As said this exemple tells about last round of that tournament and those who did it worked those action among themselves with the intention to win, again, it occurred during the last round, last games. Not comparable to this current thread.
Here we are talking about the action was done in round 3 out of 5 and with 14 games remaining to play (+1 in round 3 still ongoing, so its 15 games)."

I just want to say I agree with Josko that stage of the tournament shouldn't matter. If you have played with josko you might know this, but in round one of a game he is thinking about round 30, and in round 3 of a tournament he is thinking about any variable that can improve his chances for last game of round 5 and not whether it is likely to be significant. I also would like to take this opportunity to mention again that i am in love with him.

[betiko]

ok I already gave my honnest opinion on the matter to zabeast, but here it is:

1) I think a tournament's situation should prevail on a game
2) battle royales are a total fuckfest on the last round when it's not escalating and it's sunny on a normal basis. you've got the noobs still in game fucking people over, the guys that have been fucked by the leader who don't want him to win, the guys rimming others to check if lady luck is on their side... basically... it ends up being almost a diplomacy game
3) good luck mods if you open this can of worms!
4) I have won a monster royale tournament and since round 1 I was doing everything to see spread out wins between my opponents, and going against whoever had the most wins. It's just logic...

[king achilles]

Just to clarify, if you had an opportunity to report someone of rule breaking and you didn't, don't make it like we are in your debt just because you let it go. That incident will not be your "trump card" if ever someone reports you for the same thing as it will not exonerate you nor justify your actions because if it's against the rules then it's not allowed. If you see some people are doing questionable things it doesn't always mean such practice is accepted.

For this report, Game Throwing is still against the rules and so josko.ri has been warned. For those who are still practicing any means necessary just so you can have an advantage in a tournament, consider yourselves warned. Your journey of winning a tournament does not give you an excuse to break any rules. As what has been said before: From this point on, all games, no matter what it is, unless specified, shall be subject to all CC rules. This includes tournament and tribe games. It all boils down to applying respect & good sportsmanship in our games.

[shoop76]

Just to clarify, if you had an opportunity to report someone of rule breaking and you didn't, don't make it like we are in your debt just because you let it go. That incident will not be your "trump card" if ever someone reports you for the same thing as it will not exonerate you nor justify your actions because if it's against the rules then it's not allowed. If you see some people are doing questionable things it doesn't always mean such practice is accepted.

For this report, Game Throwing is still against the rules and so josko.ri has been warned. For those who are still practicing any means necessary just so you can have an advantage in a tournament, consider yourselves warned. Your journey of winning a tournament does not give you an excuse to break any rules. As what has been said before: From this point on, all games, no matter what it is, unless specified, shall be subject to all CC rules. This includes tournament and tribe games. It all boils down to applying respect & good sportsmanship in our games.

This is about the dumbest ruling I have ever seen. Why then play multiple games in a tournament. It also doesn’t state if this is only the case for the final round of a game or for earlier rounds as well.

And what was this based on? Have you ever even played a tournament yourself? Why are the tournaments not policed by the TOs and TDs?

[Donelladan]

shoop76, check the the last post in this link.
viewtopic.php?f=239&t=225191&start=25#p4985104

the ruling at the time was done in concertation with several mods, and they agreed that all games should be subject to CC rules, even tournament games.

I am not saying it's a good or a bad ruling, but you can't question ka ruling on his game experience, it's not like he decided that by himself anyway. The change of rule was (apparently) heavily discussed behind the scene.

[josko.ri]

I hope the same ruling will be applied to whoever admitted of using the same strategy in this thread.
This is not vindictive statement but educative statement.
I got properly educated that this strategy is against rules.
Therefore, the others who think this strategy is not against the rules should also receive educative warning.
Otherwise it is not consistent if everyone is doing this practice regularly but only I got the warning.

Also, my apologizes to ZaBeast for ruining his chances to win Monthly Leader medal.
If I could go back, I would not use this kind of strategy.

[Mad777]

I hope the same ruling will be applied to whoever admitted of using the same strategy in this thread.
This is not vindictive statement but educative statement.
I got properly educated that this strategy is against rules.
Therefore, the others who think this strategy is not against the rules should also receive educative warning.
Otherwise it is not consistent if everyone is doing this practice regularly but only I got the warning.

Also, my apologizes to ZaBeast for ruining his chances to win Monthly Leader medal.
If I could go back, I would not use this kind of strategy.

Thanks for your understanding throughout this topic, and I agree, i hope for consistency, as long as player get reported then if game review shows evidence then shouldn’t be a reason for not applying the same consequences as here.
Im guessing it may take time to see more « education » moment here but at least it has started to be spread seeing other case that popped, it is a matter of time as many thing around us.
Good sportsmanship with your posting here josko, kudos!

[betiko]

Just to clarify, if you had an opportunity to report someone of rule breaking and you didn't, don't make it like we are in your debt just because you let it go. That incident will not be your "trump card" if ever someone reports you for the same thing as it will not exonerate you nor justify your actions because if it's against the rules then it's not allowed. If you see some people are doing questionable things it doesn't always mean such practice is accepted.

For this report, Game Throwing is still against the rules and so josko.ri has been warned. For those who are still practicing any means necessary just so you can have an advantage in a tournament, consider yourselves warned. Your journey of winning a tournament does not give you an excuse to break any rules. As what has been said before: From this point on, all games, no matter what it is, unless specified, shall be subject to all CC rules. This includes tournament and tribe games. It all boils down to applying respect & good sportsmanship in our games.

This is about the dumbest ruling I have ever seen. Why then play multiple games in a tournament. It also doesn’t state if this is only the case for the final round of a game or for earlier rounds as well.

And what was this based on? Have you ever even played a tournament yourself? Why are the tournaments not policed by the TOs and TDs?

I have to agree. The goal of a tournament is to finish #1. You cannot win every game, mostly when it's a multiplayer game. Your objective is to have he best record... and if you're leading the ranking it's just normal that people will look at you as the tournament leader on top of being the game leader... and that it's in everybody's interest not to let you win. You are opening pandora's box here... now each time a tournament leader is attacked, or the leader attacks the second of the tournament, he will just open a report.

As mentionned on the homepage; risk is a game of diplomacy. If someone suicides on you, it's because you didn't play your diplomacy card right. It's very frustrating... but it's the essence of risk. You have to deal with your opponent's feelings, strategical interrests and overall game balance in multiplayer games.

Togive a classic example... player A is leading by a lot... player B asks player C and D to help against A otherwise the game is over. Everybody rams on player A, player A is pissed, lost his options for the game.. and as a retaliation he suicides what he has left on player B who started the whole crusade against him. What happens if player B reports plaer A? it's just such a classic move that happens so often.. even in real life risk games. Player B just has to suck it up... he made a diplomatic mistake.

[iAmCaffeine]

so basically 1 game > 1 tournament

not sure why that precedent was changed, it didn't used to work like that

maybe we need someone who's actually a decent player in the c&a team lol

[Donelladan]

Togive a classic example... player A is leading by a lot... player B asks player C and D to help against A otherwise the game is over. Everybody rams on player A, player A is pissed, lost his options for the game.. and as a retaliation he suicides what he has left on player B who started the whole crusade against him. What happens if player B reports plaer A? it's just such a classic move that happens so often.. even in real life risk games. Player B just has to suck it up... he made a diplomatic mistake.
Image

I am pretty sure I've seen that being reported before, and being dismissed.

I disagree with you, it's not a pandora box, people will not start opening report for no reason, not more than usual anyway.
First because 99% of CC user don't even read this part of the forum, so it's only a small group of players that knows they could open a report.
Second because people won't open C&A just because they've been attacked on the last round of a tournament. Most people aren't dumb, they will only open a report when there is really something to report. I think it's ok to deal with the few annoying ones that will open report for no reason.


@caff, read my answer to shoop. It's not ka alone that changed the rule.

[iAmCaffeine]

even saying the entire mod team was involved in the decision wouldn't fill me with much confidence when the majority of mods suck at the game

also that case with emily, josko and ice i feel is different. i didn't read through it but if they're intent from the start of the game is to help someone else win, that isn't right. not saying that's what happened.

[ZaBeast]

I don't get why people are shocked by this ruling. There has to be some rule against suiciding in tournament games, otherwise the players who wouldn't win the games could all play kingmaker. If it wasn't forbidden there would be no downside to suiciding on someone at round limit if you are losing the game anyways (other than losing more/less points depending on who wins). And then nuke/zombie/fr/ns tournament games could mostly come down to who the losers would rather have win. I don't see how that would be better.

Tbh, part of the frustration from losing that games comes from the fact that josko played it to win, then decided to play kingmaker at the last round when he realized he wouldn't. I would have been less pissed had he just suicided r1. The outcome would have been the same, but at least there is a downside for him too in that he loses a game he might have won and not a game he would have lost anyways.

also that case with emily, josko and ice i feel is different. i didn't read through it but if they're intent from the start of the game is to help someone else win, that isn't right. not saying that's what happened.

From what I read and remember, the intent was to make sure someone didn't win so he wouldn't win the tournament, not to make a specific person win.

[betiko]

honestly........... i don't know how many battle royales you've played since you're rather new on the site... and quite franckly it's been a while since I last played one of those BR on colossus (was that even the name of the map?). I don't know if it's still the same as before... but I've been countless times in the position of troop leader on the final round just to see some moron suicide on me just because i was leading... or on others. People that do it with no purpose, and without even any chat exchange... just because they can. It's always like that, at least that's how it was until I stopped playing those. You've got a bung of freemium stripers who really don't care about anything.
In that case, if josk did it it was for a purpose, not to be a dick. For me there is a line there... it hurts but you can understand... while with normal BRs you've got all these assholes doing it just out of boredom. Just like someone who would key your car's paint on a parking lot because they can't afford it.

[iAmCaffeine]

I don't get why people are shocked by this ruling. There has to be some rule against suiciding in tournament games, otherwise the players who wouldn't win the games could all play kingmaker. If it wasn't forbidden there would be no downside to suiciding on someone at round limit if you are losing the game anyways (other than losing more/less points depending on who wins). And then nuke/zombie/fr/ns tournament games could mostly come down to who the losers would rather have win. I don't see how that would be better.

You sound extremely dumb. How don't you see an issue with putting the importance of one game ahead of the overall tournament? Nobody is arguing that you should begin a game with the goal of stopping someone in particular to win, you play the game with the goal to win yourself. Always.

However, let's say it's round 48 in a 50 round game and I'm 50 troops behind you. I'm in first place of the tournament, you're in 2nd. This is the last game with 2 rounds remaining and you're in position to win. However if I suicide you, neither of us win the game and that guarantees I win the tournament, you can guarantee I'm doing it every damn time. You'd be an idiot not to.

[betiko]

The big issue too here is how are you going to judge this from now on? The game is called risk. Take caff's example. You have let's say 350 troops, you are 4th, the leader has 400, second 380 third 360. If you decide to start trimming opponents to see if you're lucky is that suicide? Knowing that it's so unlikely that you will succeed to trim all 3? In that case i try a bit my luck and when i see it s a lost case i just make sure i leave all players in the same order. But there are so many little things like that that could be quite borderline mostly in battle royales, and it's impossible to judge someone for being too confident with his dice outcome and f*ck someone up...

Like that would happen a lot in escalating games.. someone tries a kill, fails and gives the game to the next player. If he did it with too low chance of success and we think it was so low that it was a dick move.. can the person be reported for cheating? Where exactly is the line?

In this josko case it's also rather easy to do it just in a way that you can justify it as a try to win the game that didn't work. There is a lot of ethic stuff in brs that depend on your opponent's view on fairness and that can't be written rules or judged by a mod.

[TeeGee]

I do not know how many times you have to be told C&A is NOT for discussion.
If you wish to discuss this open a thread in the appropriate section of the forum

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