Not so random maps

[Teflon Kris]

Rather than just have one all encompassing Random map choice I'd like to have the option of choosing a random map from set categories.

e.g.
Random (small) - maps with less than 25(?) terits
Random (large) - maps with more than 80(?) terits
Random (medium) - maps that fall between (small) and (large)
Random (Conquest) - Conquest maps
Random (standard) - classic type maps with regional/ continental bonuses
Random (complex) - the weird and the wonderful
Random (Beta) - for current beta maps
possibly a couple more obvious categories that don't spring to mind right now

Having such options would enable themed tourneys, aid clans and tourneys to avoid unsuitable/ unwanted maps for the competition (especially in tie-breaks), give those that are looking for pick up games (whether it be as individuals or teams) the choice of playing on the type of map they're happy with.

[Woodruff]

Concise description:

• Enabling a selection of maps to be made with the Random feature (as opposed to all maps - which could remain default)

Specifics:

• It is already possible to select multiple maps in game finder - the same feature could apply to random map selection.
• The tricky bit would be enabling players to which which maps are within the selection.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• Enabling players to de-select rediculous or tedious maps.

So basically, you're thinking "a random map from within a subset of all of the maps", rather than the current "a random map from all of the maps".

Seems like a good idea to me...don't know what the coding aspect of it would be though.

[OddjobNick]

can we please do this? I absolutely LOVE the random map selection, yet I almost hate some of these maps equally. PLUS there are all the BETA maps that I usually do not want to be playing.

[rdsrds2120]

I was thinking of the ability to be able to not only choose random, but also choose one or two maps that random CAN NOT be. This would be for those games where you don't really care what the map is, as long as it isn't, well, whatever.

Concise description:

Add feature to random map selection

Specifics:

The ability to reduce the possibly selected maps in the random feature.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

More appealing options to users; Less games where almost everyone hates the map.

[Wellspring]

When you join someone's random map game, how would you know which maps they have selected not to be in the random map rotation? What if they have selected to take out all the maps you really like, how would you know before joining?

[Queen_Herpes]

I think this is a great idea....

to Wellspring: I'm sur it would need to display something as to which maps are discluded, otherwise no one would join. The tough part will be displaying that in the "Join a Game" section. Seems like right now there isn't enough room for that, but a completely reasonable suggestion nonetheless.

[safariguy5]

Yeah, I can see how certain maps are not good, perhaps we could have a large/medium/small exclusion based on the number of territories each map has. I hate random maps where we get like 8 person Doodle or 3 person Charleston or something.

[rdsrds2120]

Definitely. Maybe It could be a scroll down dropbox next to join game if it's selected.

[Lindax]

Concise description:

• An option to exclude maps when choosing the random map option

Specifics/Details:

• An option to exclude a certain amount of maps when choosing the random map option. The amount is still being debated (anywhere from 1 to 20 atm). There should be a notification of excluded maps as shown in this post (for example): viewtopic.php?f=4&t=122078&p=2695710#p2694279. Exclusions should also be mentioned in tournament threads, if applicable.

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• One will not end up with a map like Hive in a tournament, which will hold up the whole tournament for much longer than preferred.

[Queen_Herpes]

The Hive Strikes again! I concur. Though perhaps would be easier to just select ten maps that are ridiculous like THE HIVE, and some others and eliminate them entirely from random.

[jrh_cardinal]

good suggestion, where did you get this idea?


Perhaps there should be an all Random option, and an option for a random map with less than 150 terts or something easy like that. Hive may be the only map bigger than that (at least until the next crazy big map comes out ), but if you decrease it to 100 you're starting to cut out maps that are actually sane (big, but sane)

Or you could just have an option to exclude maps (click random, you have up to 3 maps to exclude, or 5, or whatever).


I don't know what you were thinking Lx, if it was something other than those two, please share, that's all I can think of though.

[Queen_Herpes]

Or you could just have an option to exclude maps (click random, you have up to 3 maps to exclude, or 5, or whatever).

Yes that is probably a better way to do it. Allow player to select some small number of maps that are discluded. The discluded maps would probably need to be listed, though, so players knew what they were getting into if they joined.

[jrh_cardinal]

The discluded maps would probably need to be listed, though, so players knew what they were getting into if they joined.

definitely agree with that. Also, I think the integrity of random map should be kept. Thinking about it some more, there should be an absolute max of 3 exclusions imo, otherwise it's just going to get too crazy and not really random. Plus, in normal public games, people will want their exact least favorite maps excluded, so everyone will be starting games and no one will be joining. If you're only allowed to exclude 3, 2, or even 1 map, then there will be less diversity in the games and hopefully people will still join them.

[jefjef]

Perhaps they could just code the Hive out of the random loop.

[jrh_cardinal]

Perhaps they could just code the Hive out of the random loop.

maybe, but some people actually like Hive (I think)

[Woodruff]

Concise description:

• An option to exclude maps when choosing the random map option

Specifics/Details:

• See above

How this will benefit the site and/or other comments:

• One will not end up with a map like Hive in a tournament, which will hold up the whole tournament for much longer than preferred.

Back before we had the "random map" selection, I was running random map tournaments by doing it manually using dice. You could always do that. <smile>

Perhaps they could just code the Hive out of the random loop.

For anyone who truly wants to play a random map, this would defeat the purpose. Which is why this suggestion really should only apply to tournaments in which the organizer wants to avoid it.

[Queen_Herpes]

Perhaps they could just code the Hive out of the random loop.

For anyone who truly wants to play a random map, this would defeat the purpose. Which is why this suggestion really should only apply to tournaments in which the organizer wants to avoid it.[/quote]

Why do you always argue the semantics? Yes, Woodruff, you are correct. If you remove one option from the myriad of choices, yes, it isn't truly random anymore. However, the Hive and some of the other insanely large maps really aren't conducive to speed game play. Its fun to join or start a speed random game, and would be just as fun if the Hive was taken out of the loop OR if we were allowed to select three maps that would be discluded.

Another thought would be to pick ten maps and randomly select from those ten. But, you know, coding and admin time and such. Perhaps newtonboy could let us know what he thinks about that?

[jrh_cardinal]

Perhaps newtonboy could let us know what he thinks about that?

as NS has already told you, newtonboy is gone

[AndyDufresne]

I've always supported this idea, since I think it'd be something I'd use! But I see a lot of benefit for it, from a Clan Challenge perspective, a Tournament perspective, random Private Game series perspective---etc.

=========================

How would you all see the functionality of something like this work? Say you go to the Start a Game Screen, and you select the 'Random Map'. Would it then open a pop up with the list of maps, with checkboxes for exclusion (or inclusion) (maybe looking like the Game Finder)? Or maybe instead of a pop up, an expansion of the page where the list of maps could be looked upon with checkboxes?

Ideas?


--Andy

[jrh_cardinal]

I've always supported this idea, since I think it'd be something I'd use! But I see a lot of benefit for it, from a Clan Challenge perspective, a Tournament perspective, random Private Game series perspective---etc.

=========================

How would you all see the functionality of something like this work? Say you go to the Start a Game Screen, and you select the 'Random Map'. Would it then open a pop up with the list of maps, with checkboxes for exclusion (or inclusion) (maybe looking like the Game Finder)? Or maybe instead of a pop up, an expansion of the page where the list of maps could be looked upon with checkboxes?

Ideas?


--Andy

right now there are two ways to get to random map, in the huge list of maps, and to the right of that there's just a random map button. Maybe move the random map button above the list of maps and have that be the only way you can choose random map. Then, if you click it, a line shows up right below it that says "Would you like to make any exclusions? When selecting random map, you may choose up to 3 maps that you do not wish to include. Hold Ctrl or Command key to select multiple maps (like game finder)".

You could also make the button a check box if you wanted to keep it the same as the other settings options

[Woodruff]

Perhaps they could just code the Hive out of the random loop.

For anyone who truly wants to play a random map, this would defeat the purpose. Which is why this suggestion really should only apply to tournaments in which the organizer wants to avoid it.

Why do you always argue the semantics? Yes, Woodruff, you are correct. If you remove one option from the myriad of choices, yes, it isn't truly random anymore. However, the Hive and some of the other insanely large maps really aren't conducive to speed game play.

It isn't semantics at all. I couldn't give a shit if "the Hive and some of the other insanely large maps really aren't conducive to speed game play"...as someone who doesn't play speed games, but who plays almost entirely "random" maps (filling in with the occasional Circus Maximus and tournament games), I don't think it's legitimate to ruin random by removing any map from the random loop (which was the statement I was responding to).

[Queen_Herpes]

Perhaps they could just code the Hive out of the random loop.

For anyone who truly wants to play a random map, this would defeat the purpose. Which is why this suggestion really should only apply to tournaments in which the organizer wants to avoid it.

Why do you always argue the semantics? Yes, Woodruff, you are correct. If you remove one option from the myriad of choices, yes, it isn't truly random anymore. However, the Hive and some of the other insanely large maps really aren't conducive to speed game play.

It isn't semantics at all. I couldn't give a shit if "the Hive and some of the other insanely large maps really aren't conducive to speed game play"...as someone who doesn't play speed games, but who plays almost entirely "random" maps (filling in with the occasional Circus Maximus and tournament games), I don't think it's legitimate to ruin random by removing any map from the random loop (which was the statement I was responding to).

Understood for your own play, but do you mind if other players get the option to self-select maps that are not included in the pool for random selection? I can see how you probably wouldn't join those games, but it wouldn't stop you from starting your own games with the full set of options to land any of the available maps.

Regarding speed, if you don't play it, then you probably wouldn't understand how insanely long it takes to complete 1) your turn ont he hive in speed and b) the entire game in speed. "Speed" by definition means swift, short-amount-of-time, etc., and the Hive is none of those things.

[Woodruff]

Perhaps they could just code the Hive out of the random loop.

For anyone who truly wants to play a random map, this would defeat the purpose. Which is why this suggestion really should only apply to tournaments in which the organizer wants to avoid it.

Why do you always argue the semantics? Yes, Woodruff, you are correct. If you remove one option from the myriad of choices, yes, it isn't truly random anymore. However, the Hive and some of the other insanely large maps really aren't conducive to speed game play.

It isn't semantics at all. I couldn't give a shit if "the Hive and some of the other insanely large maps really aren't conducive to speed game play"...as someone who doesn't play speed games, but who plays almost entirely "random" maps (filling in with the occasional Circus Maximus and tournament games), I don't think it's legitimate to ruin random by removing any map from the random loop (which was the statement I was responding to).

Understood for your own play, but do you mind if other players get the option to self-select maps that are not included in the pool for random selection? I can see how you probably wouldn't join those games, but it wouldn't stop you from starting your own games with the full set of options to land any of the available maps.

Regarding speed, if you don't play it, then you probably wouldn't understand how insanely long it takes to complete 1) your turn ont he hive in speed and b) the entire game in speed. "Speed" by definition means swift, short-amount-of-time, etc., and the Hive is none of those things.

Once again, I will repeat myself, as it appears to be necessary...I was speaking in direct response to the statement that the Hive map could perhaps be removed from the random loop. I'm not speaking about an option...I rarely have any problem with options, as I consider the more options the better.

[Joodoo]

I like this, then I wouldn't get a headache if I accidentally stumble upon "Stalingrad".

[TheForgivenOne]

If you remove a map like Hive from Random, then people will start requesting that other maps get removed.

If it is an option, then yes, it is a good suggestion. But if you want to start removing maps from the random loop, it will probably create more problems.