Auto-drop waiting games

[Mad777]

Agreed, If any player is out at least for a 30 days and this for any reason (voluntarily or not) there is no way to have him/her remain showing up.

Keep in mind that during this same period that player can't be invited until he/she join a game again, for any sort of game (tournament or casual). All his/her active game will see him/her deadbeating, his/her score will go down, so on and so forth. I don't mean at all that he/she doesn't care, but if real life push you doing so it's more than likely because he/she has more important things to do that login into CC.

When he/she comes back he/she can always launch again that/those same games.

Don't see any biggies here, pretty lean suggestion to me, like others said this should have been implemented the same day with that other 30 days rule which is that "invitation blockage".

Mad777

[Dukasaur]

Way to run it up the flagpole Fewnix!

BW is right though, we should try to think of some unintentional consequences this may have. Put yourself in the shoes of the player that has been inactive for a month or longer for a waiting game and then you are automatically dropped. Would this bother you if you came back?

Ginkapo, I was also thinking that there should be somebody overlooking the suggestion thread. Keeping it clean and on task like C&A's are. I wouldnt mind doing something like this but I already have my hands full as the unofficial game filler. I'm sure there is somebody up for the task though. Maybe a new suggestion thread?

Yeah, there are currently no mods in charge of the Suggestions forum. Just part of the general shortage of volunteers. And yes, you're doing great running the Pantry project; I wouldn't suggest spreading yourself too thin.

As far as this Suggestion goes, I think it's long overdue. After the 10th Anniversary celebrations are over, sometime in late January, I'll see what I can do about selling this to BW. As he pointed out in his reply to Fewnix, we need to consider unintended consequences, but as of right now I see no negatives. RIght now, though, is not the time. BW is plenty busy designing the 10th Anniversary events.

[bluesblazzer]

if player has not logged in in 30 days that's more than enough time

[BrutalBob]

Way to run it up the flagpole Fewnix!

BW is right though, we should try to think of some unintentional consequences this may have. Put yourself in the shoes of the player that has been inactive for a month or longer for a waiting game and then you are automatically dropped. Would this bother you if you came back?

So far no one find anything to object to the suggestion.
If you find one month is too short, we can discuss it. I think if someone does not log in for one month, he very probably doesn't care much about the game he has waiting.
The game could have start and he could have already deadbeated after 1 month.
I fail to see any problem this suggestion might cause.

Its really hard to think of a situation where someone is only waiting for one long waiting game to fill.

Agree that even if it was possible it would be extremely rare and they would likely come back back to find they have deadbeat and shrug their shoulders

[jmyork82]

The only thing I could think of is if a freemium is waiting on a game or two and they dont log on because they get email notifications and could potentially come take turns after the fact. That would be the only instance where i think you overlook the occassional CC'er. In which case you could solve that by sending an email notification that they are about to be dropped from a waiting game due to not logging in for a long period of time. That way, the site makes an attempt to reach out to the very small amount of people this applies to.

thats the best i could come up with being devil's advocate. probably a non issue

[Ffraid]

The only thing I could think of is if a freemium is waiting on a game or two and they dont log on because they get email notifications and could potentially come take turns after the fact. That would be the only instance where i think you overlook the occassional CC'er. In which case you could solve that by sending an email notification that they are about to be dropped from a waiting game due to not logging in for a long period of time. That way, the site makes an attempt to reach out to the very small amount of people this applies to.

thats the best i could come up with being devil's advocate. probably a non issue

I think that is a great idea and it would solve that issue, which was the only one that I could think of, as well.

[BrutalBob]

The only thing I could think of is if a freemium is waiting on a game or two and they dont log on because they get email notifications and could potentially come take turns after the fact. That would be the only instance where i think you overlook the occassional CC'er. In which case you could solve that by sending an email notification that they are about to be dropped from a waiting game due to not logging in for a long period of time. That way, the site makes an attempt to reach out to the very small amount of people this applies to.

thats the best i could come up with being devil's advocate. probably a non issue

A good idea but you are still talking about someone that has four game slots, not logged in for over a month and yet is waiting for one particular game to start. This would highly unlikely and is a "best case" scenario.

To be honest I can only think "unintended consequences" is a bit of a roadblock/ delaying tactic

[Fewnix]

My apologies. I misread what jmyork82 (and others) were doing. tried to take it somewhere else. I withdraw the proposal,

Given BigWham was courteous and smart, asking us to consider unintended consequences, how about we run a proposal like this by him, when he has a few free moments to work on it?

We start off with a human jmyork82 ? making judgment calls to drop waiting games ,,,..

[jmyork82]

I'm not looking to drop games completely. I'm looking to drop players that are inactive. If a player wants to play a game on a map with his settings, he can wait as long as he wants to, as long as he is an active member.

People will play those games, you just have to invite them. I feel that waiting for a game to naturally fill on its own works only so well in getting a game started. Upon my endeavor of cleaning out the pantry, you can fill a game, regardless of what it map or setting combination by searching for players who are looking to play the a similar game and inviting them. What holds those games back though and slows the filling process is inactive players, most notably in waiting team games.

[jmyork82]

I dont know how qualified I am to make a judgement like that, but so far I have not come across a game that I could not fill. The only ones that give me trouble are the team games with an inactive player, but even those eventually fill.

I also feel like somebody should look into putting a cap on how many games you can "create" at a time. Maybe cap it at 10-20? I dont see the need for somebody to create more than that at a time. I feel like there is potential for abuse on creating games. What if somebody creates 50 games on a complex map with unpopular settings? I'm surprised that a troll hasnt come to CC and done such a thing yet.

[IcePack]

I dont know how qualified I am to make a judgement like that, but so far I have not come across a game that I could not fill. The only ones that give me trouble are the team games with an inactive player, but even those eventually fill.

I also feel like somebody should look into putting a cap on how many games you can "create" at a time. Maybe cap it at 10-20? I dont see the need for somebody to create more than that at a time. I feel like there is potential for abuse on creating games. What if somebody creates 50 games on a complex map with unpopular settings? I'm surprised that a troll hasnt come to CC and done such a thing yet.

I'm 100% against installing / lowering the current cap.

[jmyork82]

what is the current cap and why are you against it?

[IcePack]

what is the current cap and why are you against it?

You can't have more than 50 waiting games. I believe this was lowered once already.
One of the perks of being premium is playing unlimited amounts of games, if game creation is restricted that really hampers the ability to create a bunch of games if you're on vacation or have extended time of elevated games.

Just because you might not see the reason to mass create games, there have been many times I have maxed that out and needed more and forced to wait. It's annoying enough as is, if it was lowered anymore it would severely restrict ability to enjoy he game as a freemium.

[jmyork82]

now i dont have anything against the amount of "waiting games", I'm looking specifically at the ones that you are allowed to create (as the red player) I feel like you should be able to join and wait as many as you want, but have a little more restriction on the amount that you are allowed to create.

What would be an example where you had to or wanted to create several games at one time?

[Donelladan]

now i dont have anything against the amount of "waiting games", I'm looking specifically at the ones that you are allowed to create (as the red player) I feel like you should be able to join and wait as many as you want, but have a little more restriction on the amount that you are allowed to create.

What would be an example where you had to or wanted to create several games at one time?

IcePack is more speaking theoritically I think. Premium = unlimited game, therefore limited the amount of game we can create at once is already kind of limitation.

Anyway, I do not think we have problem on the game waiting list with people creating more than 30 games. I think the effect on the limitation of game you can create at once would be minimal and therefore more or less useless.

[jmyork82]

I wouldnt say that we DONT have a problem with people creating 30+ games, but we do have a tiny one. Trust me, I'm pretty hands on with these waiting games We do have 3 that I can think of off the top of my head who do have more than 30 created games (give or take) that are waiting. Two of them have actual games drifting further into the cleaning out the pantry area of waiting games. With that said, my thinking is, what is the difference between waiting on 10 games of the same type versus waiting on 30 and 40 games of the same type. Why does a player need to create 20 extra games that arent filling? Would it be beneficial to offer these players, who are waiting patiently, assistance in filling these games? I for one think it would be beneficial.

[IcePack]

I wouldnt say that we DONT have a problem with people creating 30+ games, but we do have a tiny one. Trust me, I'm pretty hands on with these waiting games We do have 3 that I can think of off the top of my head who do have more than 30 created games (give or take) that are waiting. Two of them have actual games drifting further into the cleaning out the pantry area of waiting games. With that said, my thinking is, what is the difference between waiting on 10 games of the same type versus waiting on 30 and 40 games of the same type. Why does a player need to create 20 extra games that arent filling? Would it be beneficial to offer these players, who are waiting patiently, assistance in filling these games? I for one think it would be beneficial.

I make on a regular basis many games at once. For whac a mod, tournaments, inter clan games, membership test games, fun games, runs at high scores etc.
There are a number of times where I create 250+ games and have to wait because of the waiting game limit already, which is frustrating enough. Limiting it further would be aggravating.
Not this last whac a mod (I was in surgery) but the one before Cheme and I both made 250-350+ games in a very short time frame.
But even outside of the events, being involved still requires a lot of game creation which all adds up.

[Silly Knig-it]

This would be a nice idea. As part of 'cleaning out the pantry', I cruise through the oldest games to see what I might wish to join. Out of curiosity I joined a two person random, created by a '?'. It would not allow me to join, and the game stays on the waiting list. So I tried three more. Same thing. How do those games ever go away?

If you are looking, last four pages of waiting games. I didn't look further than that.

[bluesblazzer]

why isn't this being addressed??????????????/
why no word from admin????????????????

[Donelladan]

Admin doesn't read every topic of the forum.
But if you read this announcement : viewtopic.php?f=4&t=216645

you'll know they are taking care of the suggestions, or at least they will soon.

[jmyork82]

I wouldnt say that we DONT have a problem with people creating 30+ games, but we do have a tiny one. Trust me, I'm pretty hands on with these waiting games We do have 3 that I can think of off the top of my head who do have more than 30 created games (give or take) that are waiting. Two of them have actual games drifting further into the cleaning out the pantry area of waiting games. With that said, my thinking is, what is the difference between waiting on 10 games of the same type versus waiting on 30 and 40 games of the same type. Why does a player need to create 20 extra games that arent filling? Would it be beneficial to offer these players, who are waiting patiently, assistance in filling these games? I for one think it would be beneficial.

I make on a regular basis many games at once. For whac a mod, tournaments, inter clan games, membership test games, fun games, runs at high scores etc.
There are a number of times where I create 250+ games and have to wait because of the waiting game limit already, which is frustrating enough. Limiting it further would be aggravating.
Not this last whac a mod (I was in surgery) but the one before Cheme and I both made 250-350+ games in a very short time frame.
But even outside of the events, being involved still requires a lot of game creation which all adds up.

Your use for creating games is a bit different than the average joe though.

I wouldnt limit tournament games or clan games as part of the cap. I'm talking regular public games for the general population. I'm not looking to impede other aspects of the site with the "created game cap" I'm looking specifically at the games created by a regular user (non tournament, no clan, non event) for general consumption of the site. I think there is something to be addressed there. I tried to paste some links from the game finder to show examples of how players get a little carried away with the games they create, but the links just took you to the game finder.

[jmyork82]

This would be a nice idea. As part of 'cleaning out the pantry', I cruise through the oldest games to see what I might wish to join. Out of curiosity I joined a two person random, created by a '?'. It would not allow me to join, and the game stays on the waiting list. So I tried three more. Same thing. How do those games ever go away?

If you are looking, last four pages of waiting games. I didn't look further than that.

I am aware of those games and have brought them to the attention of admins in the past. They do in fact do things about those games.

1v1 games like the one you have noticed are locked so that people cant "farm" the points from an inactive player. Admins can remove these games from the list so they dont show up. There are more of those games out there and they will always pop up from time to time. You can send me a PM if you see more of them in the future, or straight to an admin (thats what I do). I have sent the game numbers off to KA

There was also an issue of waiting games at one point that were "bot only" games that you couldnt join. There may still be a few out there but I'm pretty sure I found all of those and reported them as well.

[IcePack]

I wouldnt say that we DONT have a problem with people creating 30+ games, but we do have a tiny one. Trust me, I'm pretty hands on with these waiting games We do have 3 that I can think of off the top of my head who do have more than 30 created games (give or take) that are waiting. Two of them have actual games drifting further into the cleaning out the pantry area of waiting games. With that said, my thinking is, what is the difference between waiting on 10 games of the same type versus waiting on 30 and 40 games of the same type. Why does a player need to create 20 extra games that arent filling? Would it be beneficial to offer these players, who are waiting patiently, assistance in filling these games? I for one think it would be beneficial.

I make on a regular basis many games at once. For whac a mod, tournaments, inter clan games, membership test games, fun games, runs at high scores etc.
There are a number of times where I create 250+ games and have to wait because of the waiting game limit already, which is frustrating enough. Limiting it further would be aggravating.
Not this last whac a mod (I was in surgery) but the one before Cheme and I both made 250-350+ games in a very short time frame.
But even outside of the events, being involved still requires a lot of game creation which all adds up.

Your use for creating games is a bit different than the average joe though.

I wouldnt limit tournament games or clan games as part of the cap. I'm talking regular public games for the general population. I'm not looking to impede other aspects of the site with the "created game cap" I'm looking specifically at the games created by a regular user (non tournament, no clan, non event) for general consumption of the site. I think there is something to be addressed there. I tried to paste some links from the game finder to show examples of how players get a little carried away with the games they create, but the links just took you to the game finder.

I still go through spurts of my own personal games where I create them in large quantities.
And again I point out the general fact that part of the draw of being premium is being able to play unlimited games. I mean, I accept for point dumping it can't be allowed 1,000 games to be created. But I don't accept that it should be limited to 10-20 just cuz someone thinks it's cluttering waiting games. It's one of the few big premium perks left besides poly and speed.

[jmyork82]

Make players automatically drop all their waiting games after a defined period of inactivity.

I just joined a 12 players doubles games. I go to my partner wall to ask him to take care of read the chat so that we can discuss the strategy and then I noticed I can't post messages on his wall because he is inactive since a long time.

It seems he didn't play on CC since july this year.

I suggest that a player is automatically kicked out of all his waiting games after one month of inactivity.

Currently we have that system for speed games, after a certain times of inactivity you drop all your waiting speed games automatically. A similar system should be applied to 24h game as well.

Bumping this topic for BW

To summarize, we are suggesting that when a player is inactive long enough to be dropped from the scoreboard, they are also automatically dropped from any waiting games.

This is to minimize deadbeats for new games and to prevent active players from being at a disadvantage of joining a team with a deadbeat player. This will assist in filling team games because players wont be discouraged from joining a game with one or many deadbeats. This will also clean up a lot of old games on the join games page where the only player on the game is inactive.

Please provide any feedback or thoughts on this topic that may not have already been covered.

[jmyork82]

Here is a comment to add from a game that I am in. It is in reference to having a deadbeat teammate

2017-02-22 09:37:58 - ArkieDog: Fortunately, I was the Green player in a No Spoils game and we were back to back borders... Much better. I won and had to split the winning points with Red!

I didnt think about having to split points with somebody who wasnt there to help. Implementing this suggestion will minimize this occurrence.