Scoring for Math Dorks

[UTGreen]

The more I think about it, the more I like the scoring system, but it's been brought up other places ("Just a thought about the ranking system") that it's unfair or could be better. People complain that "when you've got a really high score you shouldn't be penalized so severely for losing to someone with a really low score. But logically speaking, of course you should.

And you're forgetting that the scoring system is what got you the score you have today, and score preservation or inflation just makes the numbers meaningless. Just ask someone who's trying to get into grad school who came from Yale with a lowly 3.3. Also, hopefully your personal self worth is tied to a variety of things, only one of which is your CC ranking. So roll the die and take your chances.

But here's something interesting I noticed about the scoring... because it's adds the ratio of the loser's scores to the winner's score (20*L/W) it is in your advantage to lose games early and win games later. In other words, from a scoring point of view it's in your best interest if you're about to win one game and lose another to lose before you win.

Don't believe me? Let's say that you, with a score of 800, are playing in two 1 on 1 games (everyone else had deadbeated... surprised?) the first against a player with a score of 400 and the second against a player with a score of 2000. As the dice would have it, you're losing against the player with 400, and winning against the better opponent.

If you take the Colonel down first and delay your loss, your score goes to 800 +2000/800 * 20 = 850 and then when you lose the later your score goes to 850 - 400/800 * 20 = 808.

On the other hand, to lose first and win second your score would go: 800 - 400/800 * 20 = 760 + 760/2000 = 813.

A difference of 5 points. Multiply that by 5 opponents and it could make a difference. Granted, it's not huge, but the moral of the story is that (mathematically if not ethically) you should delay your victories until after your defeats when possible. Not to say that anyone would or should do this, but if you've got someone on the ropes with a score of a couple hundred points beyond your own, you could keep him weak until you've had a few consecutive losses and in doing so maximize the points you take from him when you end him. (Of course if you start winning then your strategy doesn't work... but who cares, you're winning).

Personally though, I can't hold off finishing someone off when the opportunity is there. Hopefully that kill-lust is keeping everyone else honest too.

[Banana Stomper]

Haha, yea, i'm always tempted to delay a victory, but never can. Once i play out that victory in my head i can' leave the computer till its my turn and i get to tear their heads off.

One thing i always kinda wanted to do was back someone into a corner and just put a huge army next to them so they'll never manage to take it, and just sit there building up armies and makeing them wait. It'd be dick and they'd probably not move, but hell, it'd be fun to see how many armies you can build up on one country. **Side thought: is there a limit?** Anyways, theoretically you could build up all of your victories and wait and then take it all when it'll blast your score up incredibly high.

[Scorba]

One thing i always kinda wanted to do was back someone into a corner and just put a huge army next to them so they'll never manage to take it, and just sit there building up armies and makeing them wait. It'd be dick and they'd probably not move, but hell, it'd be fun to see how many armies you can build up on one country. **Side thought: is there a limit?** Anyways, theoretically you could build up all of your victories and wait and then take it all when it'll blast your score up incredibly high.

I had someone do this to me in a game. He now resides on my ignore list.

[HighBorn]

dont feel to bad scorba iv been victim to it too

[zorba_ca]

But here's something interesting I noticed about the scoring... because it's adds the ratio of the loser's scores to the winner's score (20*L/W) it is in your advantage to lose games early and win games later. In other words, from a scoring point of view it's in your best interest if you're about to win one game and lose another to lose before you win.

The degree to which it helps or hurts your score greatly depends on who your opponents are. It truly only has substantial value if you are about to lose to a very low-ranked opponent and win against very high-ranked opponents.

The question is not, how many times are you in this situation, but how many times do you realize you are in this situation. If the answer >=1 I postulate CC may be a bit too high on the priority list in your life.[/quote]

[HighBorn]

If the answer >=1 I postulate CC may be a bit too high on the priority list in your life.

i already knew that

[JCole200]

I've had kinda the opposite happen to me. I lost EARLY in a game (turn 3 maybe) about a month ago. That game is still going on and I have this impending loss hanging over my head that eventually will hurt my score.

When I died, I was probably at 1100-1200 points. But now I'm in the 1500+ range.. so I'm going to lose an extra few points just becasue I've gotten better since I played that game.. only because it hasn't finished.

Perhaps we should lose the points immediately when you die.. that way you don't have the games hanging over your head for ages.

[HighBorn]

that is a wonderful idea.. except they dont know who wins yet so it cant tell how many points... maybe if the game just remembered your score at time of lose than deduct from that score at end of game

[qeee1]

I already knew the better to lose than win thing, think I pointed it out elsewhere. I like the scoring system and propose that absolutely no changes take place. If you lost early on it's your own fault, yes you'll suffer losing an extra 10 or so points because your rank's now gone up but it's only 10 points...

[Marvaddin]

1st: delay the game ending is unfair if your opponent is not premium.

2nd: if someone corners me and dont finish the game I will gladly miss 3 turns.

[UTGreen]

1st: delay the game ending is unfair if your opponent is not premium.

From the irony department:
2006-05-17 21:55:44 - Game has been initialized
2006-05-18 21:06:13 - abellpunk: any1 here?
2006-05-18 21:07:09 - abellpunk: im here
2006-05-18 21:07:41 - abellpunk: i want to get out of this game cause first player aint goin
2006-05-18 21:09:28 - abellpunk: but i cant
2006-05-18 21:46:23 - UTGreen: maybe it's just a ploy to get non-premium people together in a deadbeat game
2006-05-18 21:55:44 - Marvaddin missed a turn

I'm kinda curious as to the rationalization, but seriously, I really don't feel like playing this game with a gaggle of newbies either. A team game at that. Hmm, they'll probably become cynical and quit CC too. Damn shame.

[Marvaddin]

How sweet you are, huh? I will explain to you, irony department employee:

- I pmed my partner to get some strategies. But he replied much time later... I was no more online

- I was thinking about play later, but couldnt due to a college test. In fact, I completely forgot CC for some hours.

Happy? I really hope you never have a problem like this... In fact, I hope we can implant a micro-modem in your brain and a high resolution tiny screen in your eyes, so you can play at any hour the rookies want, ok? How about a rookie introducer job, huh?

A tip: can you check how many times I played against rookies and how many turns I lost in my almost 100 games here BEFORE POSTING SHIT, PLEASE?

[UTGreen]

Dude, it's okay. Like I said, I don't care, I just thought it was humorous so I pointed it out. I'm not saying you're a horrible person or that you shouldn't ever ever miss a turn, I just thought the juxtaposition was kinda amusing.

There are clearly things more important than CC. Hope your tests went well.

[terrafutan]

I think the game should store your score when it initialises and the points should come from that. It can only be another max 12 items in a database, name and score. When the game finishes, the score should then be calculated from the points in the database.

I am also in the situation where I started a game as a real shitty private with 900 points. The game is still on, round 70 or something rediculous and I'm currently hovering around the 1400 mark.

[Marvaddin]

No problem, UTGreen... I thought you were accusing me of dont play to make the noobs deadbeat and win the game. If this was not what you were saying, so excuse me too.

[ChaunceyMo]

Amen, terrafutan. I came to the boards specifically to bring this up... I've had people long delay games they could've easily won three or four turns earlier, always waiting until the last hour or so to do anything, and letting every turn time out. This can easily add days to the length of a game, and, as a particularly ironically nasty side effect, has cost me ratings points via the opposite action: I'm losing game A to a person who is stalling on finishing me off because they are losing game B. Meanwhile, I win game C, but that just means that when the person finally does beat me in game A they actually gets bonus points for their weaselly efforts.

So yeah, it would be good to cache scores at the start of the game.