A fascinating new map!! I offer slight corrections to the flavor text -- You have: THE EMPEROR LIES DEAD IN THE FORUM. CIVIL DISORDER IS ERUPTING ACROSS THE CITY. CONTROL OF THE GATES ARE VITAL TO CONTROLING THE RAMPANT MOB. WILL YOU FALL BECOME THE NEXT CAESAR? OR WILL YOU FALL AS ANOTHER BLOODY CORPSE?
In the 4th & 5th sentences it should read: "Control of the gates IS vital to CONTROLLING the rampant mob. Will you become the next Caesar?...."
Also, as a stylistic edit, I offer for your consideration: THE EMPEROR LIES MURDERED IN THE FORUM. CIVIL DISORDER IS ERUPTING ACROSS ROME. CONTROL OF THE CITY'S GATES IS VITAL TO QUELLING THE RAMPANT MOBS. CAN YOU MAKE YOURSELF THE NEW CAESAR, OR WILL YOU FALL DEAD IN THE STREET?
(Note: the term "BLOODY" may be offensive to some speakers of British English.)
Good suggestions. Regarding the re-write of the blurb, I'll play around but bear in mind that one of the things I have to do is get each line to fit in the space allotted. Sometimes that isn't too easy and my choice of words has to take that into account.
Regarding "bloody" - I don't think it's offensive when used in this context but I'm not a Brit. Can we get some authentic opinions?
The bloody complaints are bloody ridiculous. We can't take into account every offensive word in any given area of the world. If this was a map about Britain, that would be one thing, but its ancient Rome, where the Latin word for bloody would have no such connotations.
That said, I really like this map! I hope you'll do some more graphic work on the bridges, but as a whole, this is very promising.
The City of Vineyards is confusing. If it is a territory, you should give it borders like the rest.
I also think making the three gates nearby (Ostian, Naevian, Ardean) one way attack only presents a gameplay issue, as whoever lands the City of Vineyards territory on the drop has an instant advantage of quickly gaining 3 gates which will be very difficult for anyone else to attack (compounded if that same player drops or acquires Baths of Caracalla).
This looks like it will be a lot of fun.
You might also want to consider toning down the dagger in the background. Its a little too strong for its purpose.
According to profile info (which is all I have), none of the commenters regarding "bloody" have been British. I'll await some opinions from the cousins, and I hope a few will chime in. I don't need to use the word and have no wish to cause offense, but neither do I wish to be absurdly over-sensitive.
The arrows that lostatlimbo interprets as one-way attack arrows are in fact just indicating to which terts the names belong. I'll use lines with blobs on the end instead of lines with triangles on the end to fix that.
City Vineyards does have a border - see it there on the right? I can't add any more; the river is impassable. I think that when the unit designators are shown there will be less confusion down there altogether.
Anyone else think the dagger is too visible?
Glad you like the map - I will work on those bridges.
Minister X wrote:neither do I wish to be absurdly over-sensitive.
Well, you already sort of are. This is not a bloody daycare center, this is a war game.
lostatlimbo wrote:The bloody complaints are bloody ridiculous. We can't take into account every offensive word in any given area of the world. If this was a map about Britain, that would be one thing, but its ancient Rome, where the Latin word for bloody would have no such connotations.
Bloody is fine in the legend. In this context it is not seen as anything other than a way to describe something.
TaCktiX wrote:In Britain "Bloody" is right up there with "Damn" and "F***". As far as I'm familiar, there's only one worse (that I won't repeat here).
In Britain, bloody is no way near the f***. Damn is a word used to describe disappointment. The only time bloody is used as a swear word is if it precedes hell. And then it is only a very minor one.
Vlasov wrote:I offer for your consideration: THE EMPEROR LIES MURDERED IN THE FORUM. CIVIL DISORDER IS ERUPTING ACROSS ROME. CONTROL OF THE CITY'S GATES IS VITAL TO QUELLING THE RAMPANT MOBS. CAN YOU MAKE YOURSELF THE NEW CAESAR, OR WILL YOU FALL DEAD IN THE STREET?
That's pretty good. I've adopted some of it. I expect we'll continue to tweak and I quoted you because I want your wording handy.
I made better bridges, replaced arrows, increased the transparency of the dagger by 20%, moved some army numbers, and tried out some new wording for the blurb.
Minister X wrote:The arrows that lostatlimbo interprets as one-way attack arrows are in fact just indicating to which terts the names belong. I'll use lines with blobs on the end instead of lines with triangles on the end to fix that.
City Vineyards does have a border - see it there on the right? I can't add any more; the river is impassable. I think that when the unit designators are shown there will be less confusion down there altogether.
Ah, that does make more sense now. The recent version is much clearer.
The icons you've used fit together well, but the people/senator icon you've used stands out. The B&W contrast is stronger than the others, which have better shading and gray scale. If you tone down the intensity of the black outlines, I think the people/senators will better match the other icons. They should look similar to the theater icons, which are also mostly two tone, but not pure black.
lostatlimbo wrote:One more minor nitpicky graphics gripe.
The icons you've used fit together well, but the people/senator icon you've used stands out. The B&W contrast is stronger than the others, which have better shading and gray scale. If you tone down the intensity of the black outlines, I think the people/senators will better match the other icons. They should look similar to the theater icons, which are also mostly two tone, but not pure black.
$.02
I've put a -11 contrast on all the Senators and they're now acceptably dull. It was a good two cents.
Check out Cairnswk's Battle of Actium. Notice how he makes the border blend in with the legends and with the colors. It makes everything seem a bit whole. Do you think you could do something similar with the borders on Rome?
Well, in a way there are two outside borders. There's the "woven" one, and I can't do anything with that. Then there's an inside border of white-gold-white. I could theoretically put all elements inside such separate borders, but it would mean a rather complete re-working of everything. There would be much less room for the blurb on the top left and the bottom left legend would have to shrink. The stuff on the right would be a bit easier. Center bottom I wouldn't bother with, but then there's an inconsistency.
I've got one idea for how it might work. I'll see what I can do and if I like it -- it might be nice! -- I'll post it. You'll have to trust my judgment.
I don't think the white bridges really work. They just stand out too much from the style of the map. Going with a similar structure but solid black (like your minor gates) is more likely to look good. I also agree with MarshalNey on the change to the bottom right's wording. And the top left's wording at the end, while image-provoking, doesn't really flow that well. I suggest changing it back to lying dead in the streets or something like that. And while not gameplay-related, I still think the terrain is plain.
DRAFT FOURTEEN: there are some changes here that could be reversed, though I think I like them as they now are. These are the shadings of the gate terts and what I've done with the inner outside border and the shading inside/outside that white-gold-white "mosaic" strip. With the tert shadings in, I've removed the underlying topo shadings. The seven hills (more like ten) are nice, but they were next to impossible to discern anyway.
With the change in shape available to the blurb top left the wording must change. I really don't expect this to be final, but I urge everyone who would offer an alternative to offer it typed line by line, with each line having as close as possible to 16 characters. Being literate is one thing; getting it to fit without multiple hyphens is another.
I remembered to make the any/every fix. And what else...? I moved some army numbers around now that I know their alignment (thanks to Isaiah40 for that). As noted a few comments back I've dulled down the senators a touch.
Bridges: they aren't white. ?? I just now tested a wide variety of changes to them. Anything darker than this gray starts to become too indistinguishable from the blue river. A very simple black bridge would work, perhaps, but these are more authentic and I like them. I beg you to draw a bridge (pun) and post it if you can find the time - I'll place it on the river and either adopt it or display a side-by-side comparison.
QUESTIONS: 1) Do you like the tert shadings for the gate terts? 2) Should I make different-colored shadings for the terts with amphorae, theater masks, swords, and senators? (Greenish for all or four different colors?) 3) Do you like the new border treatment and the way it separates the map from the various legends etc.?
MarshalNey: that sounds great. If/when you take an official action could you either explain its significance or PM me and do the same? As I newbie I'm not sure what each stamp implies for what I'm supposed to be doing, or not doing any more.
Once again I thank everyone for the comments/critique. Every single one has been constructive!
Minister X wrote: With the change in shape available to the blurb top left the wording must change. I really don't expect this to be final, but I urge everyone who would offer an alternative to offer it typed line by line, with each line having as close as possible to 16 characters. Being literate is one thing; getting it to fit without multiple hyphens is another.
You could consider changing part of it from an explanation to a directive of sorts. I.E. from 'to manipulate the mob...' to something like 'Manipulate the mob by controlling the city gates.'
And if you wanted to alter the beginning two sentences (though I think they are pretty good), you could borrow a few lines from Julius Caesar (though I think you mentioned this isn't the time frame covered by the map). "There is a tide in the affairs of men / Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune..."
Anyways, the blurb is nice, and adds to the overall theme.
Bridges: they aren't white. ?? I just now tested a wide variety of changes to them. Anything darker than this gray starts to become too indistinguishable from the blue river. A very simple black bridge would work, perhaps, but these are more authentic and I like them. I beg you to draw a bridge (pun) and post it if you can find the time - I'll place it on the river and either adopt it or display a side-by-side comparison.
A black bridge would be interesting to see. What if you just outlined the bridges with a black outline? Your other icons have a little more outline to them, it might work.
QUESTIONS: 1) Do you like the tert shadings for the gate terts? 2) Should I make different-colored shadings for the terts with amphorae, theater masks, swords, and senators? (Greenish for all or four different colors?) 3) Do you like the new border treatment and the way it separates the map from the various legends etc.?
1. I think it works. 2. Adding more color might distract from the color scheme you have going right now, which I like. But I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a mock-up of a few icon-regions. 3. Like the border excluding the explanation and icons. The border for overall map, however, is pretty strong, when compared to all the soft/fuzziness that is predominant on the map. That is probably something I'd like to see softened in intensity.
Firstly, the river: it looks too flat, the texture doesn't fit the rest of the map, and the colour seems a bit odd... experiment with the color, try to give the river more depth (I'd try adding some inner shading to it, or maybe a dark inner glow) and try to get the texture more "flowing", if that makes sense.
Second... the idea of the woven metal frame is good in principle, but it's not so well executed - it looks too pasted on, like it doesn't belong with the rest of the map. Can you try smoothing the transition with the frame and the rest of the map? Or you could try removing the black background from the frame...
Third, the playable area. The gladius overlaid on top of the map... there's a term for it: Awesome but inpractical. By which I mean, it looks really cool, but in practice (ie. when you're playing a game) it just sort of distracts you and makes the map less readable. I think you'd be better off having the gladius as an element of the title.
Speaking of the title, the red glow doesn't really do it for me... try making the glow darker and thinner, and maybe adding a thin black stroke on the letters to complement it.
Minister X wrote:MarshalNey: that sounds great. If/when you take an official action could you either explain its significance or PM me and do the same? As I newbie I'm not sure what each stamp implies for what I'm supposed to be doing, or not doing any more.
OK, the stamps are the Foundry's way of saying that the map in question has met or exceeded the expectations placed upon it in that area (e.g., draft concept, gameplay, graphics, etc.) to be advanced further along the development process, which eventually results in the map going into Beta testing and then quenching. Usually the two hardest and most involved areas are gameplay and graphics; once those stamps are earned, a map is moved to the Final Forge forum. Only rarely do maps quit development once they've entered that stage.
What a stamp does not imply is that a mapmaker's activity in that area should cease and that everything is perfect. In fact, a map is rarely 'done' in any area until quench, and even then things get changed once in awhile. But a stamp does mean that the focus can move on to other areas (if the mapmaker and community so desire).
Under the current system, the Main Foundry focuses on both gameplay and graphics at the same time. Gameplay is usually given more emphasis at first, since it fundamentally determines the look of a map. Once a gameplay stamp is earned, the little colored icon will change color to indicate that the map's emphasis has changed to graphics, while still leaving the table open for further gameplay critique from the CAs and community.
AndyDufresne wrote:You could consider changing part of it from an explanation to a directive of sorts. I.E. from 'to manipulate the mob...' to something like 'Manipulate the mob by controlling the city gates.'
And if you wanted to alter the beginning two sentences (though I think they are pretty good), you could borrow a few lines from Julius Caesar (though I think you mentioned this isn't the time frame covered by the map). "There is a tide in the affairs of men / Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune..."
Anyways, the blurb is nice, and adds to the overall theme. ...
A black bridge would be interesting to see. What if you just outlined the bridges with a black outline? Your other icons have a little more outline to them, it might work. ...
...I wouldn't be opposed to seeing a mock-up of a few icon-regions. ...
3. Like the border excluding the explanation and icons. The border for overall map, however, is pretty strong, when compared to all the soft/fuzziness that is predominant on the map. That is probably something I'd like to see softened in intensity.
A "directive" is now included in the blurb. Here it is, shown line-by-line:
1234567891234567 The dictator is dead; assassinated in the Senate house. Thus begins the struggle to succeed him. With mobs afoot, control of the city gates has become critical. Win them, win the people, win the crown. Fail and Caesar's fate will become your own.
I'm serious: from now on any suggestions for changes need to be in this form: 13 lines or (preferably) less, each line about 16 chars long. It does me no good for someone to suggest a change without this, since in re-write I must alter the suggestion to make it fit in the space. (Besides, this latest version is pretty good!) As for the Shakespeare: I absolutely love it, but I'm afraid it would be too obscure for most players. ... The bridges now have a black outline. I tried three different black bridges - none worked. But I darkened these and added the outline and it's an improvement. ... I've added shadings for all the icon-bonus terts and included the colors in the top right legend. I think it adds a lot and makes the map look more comprehensible. ... The surrounding border is an actual photograph of an actual Roman mosaic. The original is so big that the individual tiles will probably only be visible on an excellent monitor. Using the eraser tool I've removed the outside black portions from the outer half - the one with the "weave" pattern. This tones it down considerably, but it also lessens authenticity. So does what I did with the inner half. It begins to be not worth having the weave-border at all. Replacing it with a simple line would save 62 pixels in each dimension, and it would load a lot faster as well. I'm posting both versions and would appreciate comments re. preference. If the simple blackline version is preferred, the next question is what about the white-gold-white border: should it be replaced or does it add some Roman flavor?
natty_dread wrote:Firstly, the river: it looks too flat, the texture doesn't fit the rest of the map, and the colour seems a bit odd... experiment with the color, try to give the river more depth (I'd try adding some inner shading to it, or maybe a dark inner glow) and try to get the texture more "flowing", if that makes sense.
Second... the idea of the woven metal frame is good in principle, but it's not so well executed - it looks too pasted on, like it doesn't belong with the rest of the map. Can you try smoothing the transition with the frame and the rest of the map? Or you could try removing the black background from the frame...
Third, the playable area. The gladius overlaid on top of the map... there's a term for it: Awesome but inpractical. By which I mean, it looks really cool, but in practice (ie. when you're playing a game) it just sort of distracts you and makes the map less readable. I think you'd be better off having the gladius as an element of the title.
Speaking of the title, the red glow doesn't really do it for me... try making the glow darker and thinner, and maybe adding a thin black stroke on the letters to complement it.
Well, that's all for now.
I played with the river and got it looking so awful I had to start over from scratch. Is it too bright now? ... As noted above it's not a metal frame at all, but I took the suggestion about the black background (part of it anyway). ... The gladius is gone. The colored terts for the icon-bonuses sealed its death warrant. ... The title has been changed considerably. It's now a bloody mess. Like it?
Also changed a bit: base color tones. (To accommodate the shaded icon terts.)
Hmm. I just had an idea but it's too late to try it out on this draft. I could have a gladius stuck into the word "Dead" in the title. Whaddaya think?
I still don't like the bridges, mostly due to their perspective on the map (which is angled back) compared to all other elements (which are side-on or head-on).
While the change to the colored territories is a good one, it makes all the "normal" ones look extremely plain in comparison. Perhaps a similar fad effect for them, but in a darker shade of tan?
And in the top left legend, "The dictator is dead" should be its own sentence. I'm a very un-fan of semicolons to connect two totally independent sentences.
Is it too bright now?
