CC is declining again!

[owenshooter]

Discussing it, sure, that's good. But making a comment about it in every thread is a little over-the-top... That's what I was mainly referring to

that statement is wholly false. please pull a "CC in decline" comment from every thread within the GD or at least the top 25 threads and post them here. you can't. it is not a fact. it is an exaggeration. in fact, if you look at the threads in the GD, there are 3 threads that discuss this and only two that are active with repeated and constant posts. and if you look into those threads, there are actually many good ideas about how to stop the decline, how to help the site, etc... this is one of the few places where people have remained active, despite what is going on with the site. ask andy, he'll tell you, even when you ban us for months on end or "forever", people come back to the GD... why? because we love the site and don't like what is going on with it right now. watching it fall apart further than under the last guy is hard to stomach. there are a ton of good ideas in here, many have been bounced off of prior owners and ignored... one of the repeated suggestions that has continually been shot down was just lobbed at the new owner by Mr. C... there is a way to halt the decline, it just doesn't seem like the direction the owner is taking is it... open up the classic map, keep a large portion of the maps and all those damn bells and whistles for premium users (unless you decide to get rid of a lot of the shit maps that could easily go away without a mass uproar)... expand into other classic boardgames that people seek on the internet, like chess... there is a way to solve this thing and it is simpler than having games against bots, 2K in setting options, and some inane chat on the side of the screen... this site has always succeeded despite it's own actions, and that just doesn't seem to be working anymore... the chickens aren't even coming home to roost, they are just fleeing the coop...-el Jesus negro

p.s.-did you like how i threw in that sweet twist of one of the best quotes of all time? f*ck, sometimes i am just too good for my own good...

[rhp 1]

I was a premium member before but decided not to renew. Though I have been asked why, I did not wish to reveal the true reasons. Now I could very well be the next to exit CC. Here is the last straw, I am sick of being defeated by the CC broken dice.

How can any reasonable person still believe that the dice is not broken? Take for instance when I have seen a dice pattern emerged in my games. In regards to over 500 1v1 games, and especially in the past 3 months , in 80% of the games my dice tend to fail early and persists through to at least mid game. If correction did happen, it is timed for after the game is lost.

I found that this is in stark contrast with my opponents whose dice alternate between good and bad rolls. In their case, the correction tend to happen randomly but not in my case. Another observation is my good early dice happen so rarely (like less than 20% of my games) .

If the dice is random, how does one explain such a pattern? The dice seems to be following a plan.

If I am asked what is one thing that can undermine this website, then at the top of my list should be the growing perception of a broken or rigged dice. The computer can be instructed to read a different dice file for a certain stage of the game and then from a different dice file at another stage to give a false impression of dice parity.

If you think that the above is not unreasonable, then consider the possibility that CC is already hacked into by someone. If the website can be undermined like this, no wonder people will want to leave.

if your rationale for leaving is you don't like the dice? leave now... if you honestly believe that over millions of rolls that the dice hold you back from something, I'd suggest you are probably diluted.. even if you were to somehow roll your own dice, you'd still cry when you'd have the inevitable bad beats, and suffer amnesia on your incomprehensible dice wins... it's the nature of a dice game.. are the dice perfect? nope... but it doesn't matter when we're all rolling the same ones...

[Donald Fung]

@Changsha: I like your analysis and solution Think that well definitely get us more new players. Not only does it take away the problem with new players getting stuck in weird settings and maps but it also allows freemiums a taste of being premium! It's like those restaurants in the mall that passes out free chicken Killing two birds in one stone.

@narutoserigala: sorry bro but you sound like any other complainers out there except maybe even worse because you have nothing to complain about. You're a freakin brigadier with under 800 games, if the dice was truly bad to you, you wouldn't be ranked so high no matter what skill you have. I'm not saying you have a dice advantage but you certainly don't have a disadvantage. Psychology has proven that people remember the bad things more than the good ones and that's your problem. If there's any one that should be complaining about dices, it should be me. My score went down 22.8% within a week, you could conform on the full running leaderboard. Or look at my score range, my highest is nearly double what I have now. Did I suddenly lose 22.8% of my skill? Or even more than that because the less score you have the less points you lose? It's probably the dice. Until that happens to you, you have no right to complain. But even then, there's no point in complaining. Life has ups and downs and guess what, so do dices! Surprise!

@Dukasaur: Comparing CC to Baskin-Robbins is not a fair comparison. In CC, more variety means that players are more spread out on different settings. If a player has found their strengths and weaknesses, they would only play on certain settings, therefore, making a huge part of the available games unjoinable. In inventory, you can simply decrease the amount of each option if you have more options. The fact is, as a consumer, I don't mind if you have a lot of stuff sitting on the shelves that haven't been sold, provided they are not out of date. But as a player, I would mind if my games take forever to fill up because then I have no one to play with and when it does fill up, it might be a bad timing. It's like saying you want the ice cream in the summer, but you have to order it, and it comes in the winter. That's a big problem.

And as for the bots in the chat, I think that just shows desperation. Honestly, I would rather see a dead chat than a computer talking to me. Glad you like the rest of my ideas btw, good to see there's agreements in here

@iAmCaffeine: Are you serious? Why are you personally bashing me? What the heck does that have to do with the topic of trying to find ways to stop CC's decline? If you have nothing good to contribute to the convo, don't join it. I realized I don't have the time over a prolonged period of time to go through with completely hosting the tournament. If you think I am lying, look at some of my games, I have missed some turns because I had things to take care of IRL and couldn't be here.

@OliverFA: I like the advanced options screen idea. Maybe even have separate tabs for joining games, one with "Casual Games" and one with "Advanced Games."

@JamesKer1: While there are some obvious trolls, ignoring the problem will not get things solved. lassiez-faire? yea see how well that went for the economy in 2007.

[BigBallinStalin]

@JamesKer1: While there are some obvious trolls, ignoring the problem will not get things solved. lassiez-faire? yea see how well that went for the economy in 2007.

[BigBallinStalin]

I've got a theory... What if we are the cause of the decline because of threads like this? Any smart user would stay away from a website with stuff about the Great Decline splattered all over it. So if we stopped all of this crazy talk and reporting these numbers, they may start to go up. Embrace the newcomers as a community, don't scare them off with nonsense and complaints.

Just a guess. Kumbaya.

If we started a thread titled, "Is CC Increasing?", and then we kept posting imaginary numbers about it increasing, would this (a) increase the rate of CC membership, or (b) decrease the rate of CC membership?

On a related subject:

[JamesKer1]

I've got a theory... What if we are the cause of the decline because of threads like this? Any smart user would stay away from a website with stuff about the Great Decline splattered all over it. So if we stopped all of this crazy talk and reporting these numbers, they may start to go up. Embrace the newcomers as a community, don't scare them off with nonsense and complaints.

Just a guess. Kumbaya.

If we started a thread titled, "Is CC Increasing?", and then we kept posting imaginary numbers about it increasing, would this (a) increase the rate of CC membership, or (b) decrease the rate of CC membership?

On a related subject:

I'm 6'3"... Way higher than that guy.

It may prolong the Decline... Which is essentially all we can do. All sites will die, Facebook is probably in decline after Twitter and Instagram and who-knows-what popped up. Once something better comes out, users will leave. If they stick around and don't "upgrade" to a new place, eventually they will burn out. Unless something radical and effective is done, the Decline will continue inevitably. Mr. Dread came up with a fantastic idea a while back, radical and effective. Let's see who listens

I'm not that crazy, you know. Kumbaya.

Owen... I don't even know what to say. You went on a wall-of-text rant about me using an exaggeration. Go take a walk, sing Kumbaya, and return. Take all of my words in context, I use extreme exaggerations, as does much of the population of the Earth, to get a point across. If I say I am so hungry I could eat my whole kitchen, you will not find me at Lowe's the next day getting a new fridge. I just meant that I am very hungry.

Also to Owen, just a little insight about my duties as a moderator so that hopefully you can build some respect for me (or the Suggs Team at least)- I don't get to choose which Suggestions are implemented any more than a C&A mod does. I can Submit all I want, but many ideas recently have come from BigWham's head instead of Submitted. There are still enough Suggestions that make it through, but I have no control over anything after I submit it. That's why some suggestions are still there in Submitted after 3 years of no commentary.

[BigBallinStalin]

So, hopefully, you understand the importance of this thread, jamesker. I agree that suggestions like natty's will not be taken by the current owners.

The question is: will current suggestions reverse the decline?

(2) if not, are suggestions like natty's the route to future growth?
(3) regardless of the answer to #2, does the current owner really care that much?
(This is a serious question because implementing more drastic changes incurs greater risk. IMO, the owner doesn't wish to invest in such enterprises, but he will invest in marginal changes to a site which generates enough profit--until we reach that unprofitable area (give or take 3-5 years). Basically, as the owner, the optimal strategy seems to be: let CC bleed to death while making a profit. When it becomes unprofitable, shut it down--and if ya feel like, release some message saying: "we did all we could." It's BS, but it's a profit-maximizing strategy--given his constraints (whatever they are))).

[JamesKer1]

So, hopefully, you understand the importance of this thread, jamesker. I agree that suggestions like natty's will not be taken by the current owners.

The question is: will current suggestions reverse the decline?

(2) if not, are suggestions like natty's the route to future growth?
(3) regardless of the answer to #2, does the current owner really care that much?
(This is a serious question because implementing more drastic changes incurs greater risk. IMO, the owner doesn't wish to invest in such enterprises, but he will invest in marginal changes to a site which generates enough profit--until we reach that unprofitable area (give or take 3-5 years). Basically, as the owner, the optimal strategy seems to be: let CC bleed to death while making a profit. When it becomes unprofitable, shut it down--and if ya feel like, release some message saying: "we did all we could." It's BS, but it's a profit-maximizing strategy--given his constraints (whatever they are))).

The Suggestions Process, not necessarily the current suggestions out there, has the ability to decline the rate of the decline, and the slight chance of reversing it temporarily, maybe a year or so. Suggestions like Natty's, involving Graphics overhauls, additions of other games (I really could use a good online Stratego), and the like are exactly the things I believe we need, personally.

I'm not sure about #3. I would hope so, but I don't know. It would take a lot of time to code, and mods can only do so much to alleviate daily duties from the big guys to give them extra time. Maybe that's why they've been so busy lately, working on new games for Conquer Club... It's a nice thought I guess.

[spiesr]

The Suggestions Process, not necessarily the current suggestions out there, has the ability to decline the rate of the decline, and the slight chance of reversing it temporarily, maybe a year or so.

No, the Suggestions department doesn't do that. Actions by admin are what have the potential to change to the rate of decline (if such a thing is possible). The Suggestions forum is simply a means to gather and discuss user generated ideas, which admin then may consider when making decisions about what he wants to do.

[BigBallinStalin]

So, hopefully, you understand the importance of this thread, jamesker. I agree that suggestions like natty's will not be taken by the current owners.

The question is: will current suggestions reverse the decline?

(2) if not, are suggestions like natty's the route to future growth?
(3) regardless of the answer to #2, does the current owner really care that much?
(This is a serious question because implementing more drastic changes incurs greater risk. IMO, the owner doesn't wish to invest in such enterprises, but he will invest in marginal changes to a site which generates enough profit--until we reach that unprofitable area (give or take 3-5 years). Basically, as the owner, the optimal strategy seems to be: let CC bleed to death while making a profit. When it becomes unprofitable, shut it down--and if ya feel like, release some message saying: "we did all we could." It's BS, but it's a profit-maximizing strategy--given his constraints (whatever they are))).

The Suggestions Process, not necessarily the current suggestions out there, has the ability to decline the rate of the decline, and the slight chance of reversing it temporarily, maybe a year or so. Suggestions like Natty's, involving Graphics overhauls, additions of other games (I really could use a good online Stratego), and the like are exactly the things I believe we need, personally.

I'm not sure about #3. I would hope so, but I don't know. It would take a lot of time to code, and mods can only do so much to alleviate daily duties from the big guys to give them extra time. Maybe that's why they've been so busy lately, working on new games for Conquer Club... It's a nice thought I guess.

I hope you enjoy your job of indexing various Suggestions posts, but you really need to seek better places for your time. This place is dying, and its death is inevitable unless some HUGE change occurs (a change which you and I doubt is coming). Please, use your abilities on more capable goals. I'm only wishing that you spend your time on more fruitful endeavors.

Think about it:

The "Suggestions Process" has been open for years, and it is a fact that it has not stopped the Great Decline. Sure, there is some probability that some suggestion will reverse the trend, but it's as probable as Martians landing on Earth. Consider the years of the Suggestions Process and recognize its inability to stem the decline. Our problem is external to internal suggestions, and as I already mentioned, this site is incapable/unwilling to meet the ongoing market demand for online gaming.

Dismiss my advice as you will, but in a few years, you'll realize the wisdom of my recommendations.

[BigBallinStalin]

The Suggestions Process, not necessarily the current suggestions out there, has the ability to decline the rate of the decline, and the slight chance of reversing it temporarily, maybe a year or so.

No, the Suggestions department doesn't do that. Actions by admin are what have the potential to change to the rate of decline (if such a thing is possible). The Suggestions forum is simply a means to gather and discuss user generated ideas, which admin then may consider when making decisions about what he wants to do.

Whoa! A beacon of light penetrates the depths of jamesker's mind. How will we deal with the facts?

[isaiah40]

9802

[Mr Changsha]

somehow Changsha has been right so far...we hit 9804 and then bounced back up to 9815 right now. Never dipped below 9800, despite getting close.

Somehow?

Listen, when I pull a number of out this here sexy ass you should learn to respect that number, and the very succulent rear it came from.

No way it is dropping below 9800... you can always rely on my magic ass.

[Dukasaur]

The question is: will current suggestions reverse the decline?

By themselves, no. But a constant process of incremental change may at some point do so.

(2) if not, are suggestions like natty's the route to future growth?

Depends what you mean by natty's suggestion. Many of natty's older suggestions are included in (1) above. But I'll assume that you mean the most recent block of suggestions that natty made in your "Great Decline" thread. Those were mostly very, very good. Unfortunately, they involve pretty much rewriting the site's code from scratch. Since there's no money in the pot to pay outside programmers, the owner at this point has to do all the coding himself. There's no plausible way a complete reconstruction of a massive body of work like this could be done by one man alone in a reasonable timescale. So yeah, as tantalizing as natty's vision of a completely new CC 2.0 is, it's not something we can just leap to like that. Incremental change is the only option.

(3) regardless of the answer to #2, does the current owner really care that much?
(This is a serious question because implementing more drastic changes incurs greater risk. IMO, the owner doesn't wish to invest in such enterprises, but he will invest in marginal changes to a site which generates enough profit--until we reach that unprofitable area (give or take 3-5 years). Basically, as the owner, the optimal strategy seems to be: let CC bleed to death while making a profit. When it becomes unprofitable, shut it down--and if ya feel like, release some message saying: "we did all we could." It's BS, but it's a profit-maximizing strategy--given his constraints (whatever they are))).

CC has been unprofitable for years. That's why lackattack dumped it. So, "let it bleed to death while making a profit" isn't an option that's on the table. Both of the owners since lack have been subsidizing it, in different ways -- El_Jefe by throwing actual cash into the pot, bigWham by cutting staff and working for the site full-time himself. (Since you're into economics I know I don't have to explain to you that the opportunity cost of doing the work himself represents a subsidy.)

So does he care? Yeah, definitely. Both El_Jefe and bigWham took on CC because they thought it could be reworked into something much bigger and better than what it is, not because it was a cash cow. There's nothing to milk here. It's basically a wild-card gamble for the owner. Either he can turn it around and make it into the next Farmville, or he's thrown away a couple hundred thousand and a couple years of his life.

[Mr Changsha]

Still 9802...

[2007spaceodyssey]

Still 9802...

9799 now, so 200 less compared to 10 days ago.

[Dukasaur]

somehow Changsha has been right so far...we hit 9804 and then bounced back up to 9815 right now. Never dipped below 9800, despite getting close.

Somehow?

Listen, when I pull a number of out this here sexy ass you should learn to respect that number, and the very succulent rear it came from.

No way it is dropping below 9800... you can always rely on my magic ass.

Still 9802...

9799 now, so 200 less compared to 10 days ago.

I guess Changsha will have to make an appointment with the proctologist tomorrow, get things checked out.

[owenshooter]

No way it is dropping below 9800... you can always rely on my magic ass.

9,793... *cough*...-el Jesus negro

[jammyjames]

So all we are proving now, is that in recent weeks the decline has sped up even more...

Ironically since all the complaint threads have started to come through. Guess it's not just a few voices then huh

[Army of GOD]

9785.

[isaiah40]

9783

[Donald Fung]

Honestly, what's the whole deal against the surrender button? Many wars in real life are fought until surrendered and that could be the case in risk too. Can anyone honestly argue that games like Game 14605303 should not contain a surrender button? What is the point other than a waste of time to be constantly checking up on a game that should've been long won and over with?

[iAmCaffeine]

What exactly is the issue with that game? It's not especially long and is about to finish. Surrender buttons allow room for abuse.

[jammyjames]

Caff, go hop in a trench game on a map with loads of territories and no conquest.

Take USA 2.1 for example.

A recent game I was in, I had lost by a long shot, however the game still continued for ages just waiting for the opponent to mop up the troops. Surrender is good.

[iAmCaffeine]

I've played USA 2.1 with trench enough. I'm not disagreeing with that theory, but did you look at the game he linked? Idiocy at its finest. This is the kind of game were a surrender button would be useful: Game 13043479.

However, there are other solutions. The best is putting a round limit on a game. Secondly, in stalemate situations, make a "tie-breaker" game. If the issue is just mopping up then get over it.