Arsonist

by **MoB Deadly** on Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:57 am

heres a role pm from my game with an arsonist haha

Arsonist
[spoiler]Hello [name], You are the Third-Party Arsonist. You are not immune at night, but are undetectable. Setting players on fire ignores all protection and immunities.

You may choose one of three night actions per night:

1) Douse a player in gasoline. Players are notified of this.
2) Undouse yourself from gasoline.
3) Kill all players that have been doused with gasoline.

You win if you are the last player alive. Go confirm in the thread.

So, some options that are available to you.

Nightkill immunity, sometimes I do this if they are by themselves. Anyone that shoots them would get a message. "Tonight, your target is immune to conventional attacks."
You can make them detectable by cop or not.
Fire usually ignores any doctor healings, bodyguards, pretty much anything.
The reason that there is an option to undouse yourself is because of bus driving.

You may choose to alert players that have been doused with gasoline. I normally do because its good to know if there is an arson in the game, and plus its a pretty scary thought, thinking you can die on any night. Plus it makes for some good strategies if the arson himself claimed to of been doused by gasoline on a particular night.

Hope this helps

by **safariguy5** on Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:52 pm

Arsonist is one of those roles I lump in with Bomb or Vengeful Townie as an X-Factor role. Can help either town or mafia, it all depends on who they choose to douse.

I usually don't advocate making Arsonist bulletproof, because all they really are is a variant of an SKer. Investigation proof or undetectable to watcher/tracker sure, but not bulletproof.

Honestly, the Firefighter has such a tough time saving everyone who might get doused that it may not be such a bad idea to announce that there is an Arsonist in the game on Day 1. Might save some lives if the Arsonist is lynched early.

by **edocsil** on Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:03 pm

1) Only the firefighter can protect (unprime on night of priming)
2) Just prime, until it decides to light the fire day or night.

by **soundman** on Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:09 pm

I wish I had some experience playing with an arsonist. The only time I've played with one he got lynched the first day...

by **pancakemix** on Sun Dec 04, 2011 4:26 pm

soundman wrote:I wish I had some experience playing with an arsonist. The only time I've played with one he got lynched the first day...

It's not a common role at all, so I wouldn't feel too bad about that.

by **safariguy5** on Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:37 pm

pancakemix wrote:
soundman wrote:I wish I had some experience playing with an arsonist. The only time I've played with one he got lynched the first day...

It's not a common role at all, so I wouldn't feel too bad about that.

That may change, these new mods seem to really like using it. I'm also seeing more Vengeful Townies instead of the more traditional Town Bomb.

by **strike wolf** on Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:51 pm

safariguy5 wrote:
pancakemix wrote:
soundman wrote:I wish I had some experience playing with an arsonist. The only time I've played with one he got lynched the first day...

It's not a common role at all, so I wouldn't feel too bad about that.

That may change, these new mods seem to really like using it. I'm also seeing more Vengeful Townies instead of the more traditional Town Bomb.

Yeah. I've considered using it but I really don't know how to balance it (In actors I was going to substitute the SK for an arsonist style Sk and the jailkeeper for a firefighter)

by **TA1LGUNN3R** on Mon Dec 05, 2011 5:12 am

30+ games and I don't think I've ever come across an arsonist, or I don't remember.

-Tails

by **BGtheBrain** on Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:55 am

by **MoB Deadly** on Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:10 am

BGtheBrain wrote:I went through the archives, there were only 3 or 4 games with it. I have no idea how to balance it.

It MoBs first game there was one, but he was the D1 lynch so it never panned out

I pretty much value it the same as an SK. I probably wouldn't include a firefighter because I think it is a little pointless.

I prefer the SK and just notifying them they are doused. They should almost undoubtedly announce they were doused so everyone will know there is an arsonist in the game. So if they successfully douse every single night, its still 1 possible person that dies for every night that passes. They have same opportunity to hit town and mafia as they see fit.

1) A player could die in between dousing and actually setting on fire, which would be the same as SK and mafia targeting the same player.
2) still susceptible to roleblocks the same as SK. No douse means roleblocker found arson.
3) still susceptible to bussing, didnt douse the person they intended, could end up dousing the same person twice, or dousing themselves, wasting a night.
4) Only advantage is arson kills all at once and ignores doctors and bodyguards. Which i think the multiple nights the arson has to wait balances it.

I think the arson is a lot less powered than you guys are thinking. I say throw it in instead of an SK a couple games and see how it pans out. Only time arson gets overpowered is if there is no notification of dousing, that is definitely hard to balance, because he will be just visiting people with no affect, there are quite a few fakeclaims for that

Edit:
so yeah just think:

A normal SK kills every single night, mafia or town doesnt matter. If it looks like the scum is doing well and killing town over and over, then they could try to shoot someone scummy.

Arson has to douse douse douse, (unsure if they even doused the intended person, and also hoping that mafia doesnt kill one of the doused.) They kill at once, they dont know if they killed all town, all mafia or what. They have less control in keeping the game "balanced" so that they are in good position to win.

by **safariguy5** on Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:57 pm

MoB Deadly wrote:
BGtheBrain wrote:I went through the archives, there were only 3 or 4 games with it. I have no idea how to balance it.

It MoBs first game there was one, but he was the D1 lynch so it never panned out

I pretty much value it the same as an SK. I probably wouldn't include a firefighter because I think it is a little pointless.

I prefer the SK and just notifying them they are doused. They should almost undoubtedly announce they were doused so everyone will know there is an arsonist in the game. So if they successfully douse every single night, its still 1 possible person that dies for every night that passes. They have same opportunity to hit town and mafia as they see fit.

1) A player could die in between dousing and actually setting on fire, which would be the same as SK and mafia targeting the same player.
2) still susceptible to roleblocks the same as SK. No douse means roleblocker found arson.
3) still susceptible to bussing, didnt douse the person they intended, could end up dousing the same person twice, or dousing themselves, wasting a night.
4) Only advantage is arson kills all at once and ignores doctors and bodyguards. Which i think the multiple nights the arson has to wait balances it.

I think the arson is a lot less powered than you guys are thinking. I say throw it in instead of an SK a couple games and see how it pans out. Only time arson gets overpowered is if there is no notification of dousing, that is definitely hard to balance, because he will be just visiting people with no affect, there are quite a few fakeclaims for that

Edit:
so yeah just think:

A normal SK kills every single night, mafia or town doesnt matter. If it looks like the scum is doing well and killing town over and over, then they could try to shoot someone scummy.

Arson has to douse douse douse, (unsure if they even doused the intended person, and also hoping that mafia doesnt kill one of the doused.) They kill at once, they dont know if they killed all town, all mafia or what. They have less control in keeping the game "balanced" so that they are in good position to win.

Yes, but with arsonist, his impact on the game changes depending on who he douses/who is lynched or nightkilled.

SKer you know attempts a kill every night. Arsonist's douse targets are still subject to possibly dying from a lynch or a nightkill. Not to mention the possibility of roleblocking/busdriving.

So let's say we have two games at Day 5. If there was an Sker still alive that that point, he'd be responsible for several deaths, I'd say 3-4.

The Arsonist may not have killed anyone yet, and he's doused maybe 3-4 people. The more people he douses, the more likely it is that one or more of them die, decreasing his influence on the game.

by **MoB Deadly** on Mon Dec 05, 2011 8:22 pm

Right that's my point that the arsonist may be a little less powerful than an SK, contrary to what I believe most people think. Timing is everything with the arsonist, its not as much with the SK

by **safariguy5** on Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:10 pm

MoB Deadly wrote:Right that's my point that the arsonist may be a little less powerful than an SK, contrary to what I believe most people think. Timing is everything with the arsonist, its not as much with the SK

The difference being that the Arsonist is much more difficult to detect if you do not PM the player that they have been doused. His kills are stronger because you can't protect his targets, and especially if you don't use a firefighter. With the SKer, you can prevent the kill many ways. So I think it's just about the same strength, if not stronger.

by **MoB Deadly** on Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:24 pm

safariguy5 wrote:
MoB Deadly wrote:Right that's my point that the arsonist may be a little less powerful than an SK, contrary to what I believe most people think. Timing is everything with the arsonist, its not as much with the SK

The difference being that the Arsonist is much more difficult to detect if you do not PM the player that they have been doused. His kills are stronger because you can't protect his targets, and especially if you don't use a firefighter. With the SKer, you can prevent the kill many ways. So I think it's just about the same strength, if not stronger.

I agree. I think weaker if players are notified.

Definitely stronger if players are not notified. Because players may not even be aware there is an arson in the game until they multi-kill 3+ players. And even then it could be a witch hunt trying to track them down.

by **Rodion** on Tue Dec 06, 2011 6:32 pm

I was an arsonist in Golden Pantheon: Native Americans, but unfortunately the game got abandoned.

At that game, I was able to prime/douse at night and ignite during the day, meaning I could effectively kill 1 person per day/night cycle, just like a SK has 1 kill/cycle.

The Arsonist MOB Deadly posted is nerfed in the sense he has to "waste" a night to ignite people, meaning it's 1 night he will not be able to douse. He can't keep up with the 1 kill/cycle and in this regard he is weaker than a SK. Adding a firefighter AND warning people of when they are doused will only make the Arsonist weaker than then SK, unless you give the arsonsit some extra perks, such as igniting on day (hence not wasting a night of dousing) or bulletproof/investigation-proof.