INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

[ZaBeast]

At the risk of being humiliated when this is over, I currently lean this way. They are in no particular order, that seems to change with every post I digest

Scum and/or 3rd Party Lean
blacky, pikanchion, sirius kase (possible 3rd party), skoffin (possible 3rd party)

Town Lean
Za Beast

Unsure
Rest

Well, if you think I'm town (thanks about that btw) let's go back to the possibilities I posted

Here are the possibilities as I see them:
- I lied and didn't redirect tobi (didn't happen)
- tobi lied and isn't master redirector, but someone else on his scum team is
- tobi is master redirector, and BuJ and pika lied/are wrong about BuJ getting redirected; TX lied about not getting redirected
- tobi is master redirector, and BuJ has been bussed : chap is lying as he didn't bus who he claimed to; TX is lying about not being redirected

Since you have a town read on me and you won't admit to lying, options 1,3 and 4 should be void. Therefore what are you waiting for voting Tobi as per option 2? That's as close as a 100% chance of catching scum from your point of view as you'll get today. Unless I missed something and there are other options, obviously.

My scum picks (from most to least scummy)
Tobi>>>>>>>>Sirius (for the lack of contribution)=Pika (pending re-reading)>blacky (pending re-reading)

My town picks
BuJ
SW

Undecided, pending re-reading, and depending on the flip
Everybody else

If need be, I'd vote pika or sirius but if we mislynch I would strongly be opposed to voting someone other than tobi on the next day and would definitively not go with chap's plan another day.
IF we don't mislynch today AND we don't lynch tobi, I'm going for food tonight. Please don't take it as a reason to jump out of the tobi wagon.

[Ragian]

on mobile


Tobi was going to be a top lynch choice before chaps plan divided people frim it.
Tobis alignment will tell us about other players while others players lynch would not. If tobi is town then ragoo is scum and chap is town. If tobi is scum then chap is his scum partner. Tobi is best lynch today.
But whatever just do something. Its our last day ffs and im at work for 10 hours. Ill put my vote wherever tf its needed

I'm going to ask you again since your mobile apparently kept you from answering. Why is my alignment linked to Tobi's flip in any way?

ZB, alright. I see your point. I don't know if agree, though. How would you react if BuJ stormed in D4 and voted Tobi, and then Pika does the same corroborating BuJ's story?

We need to put our votes where our mouths are. I don't think Tobi is scum (which, apparently, to Skoffin, makes me scum ), so I'm not voting for him. I'm willing to vote for Pika and Sirius. And perhaps chap if he doesn't explain the discrepancy of him using his bonus ability more than once and the rules.

FP'ed

[Skoffin]

mob

Sorry its linked on the assumption we believe chap is truthful. If i were to believe chaps claim only you or tobi can be svum in that case, which means tobis flip reveals yours.

Ill answer other stiff ehen home typing on a phone is a whore and a half

[Ragian]

So, knowing that I'm town, I should want to lynch either Tobi or Chap, then?

[Skoffin]

Well technically from your perspective you'd either not believe chap and want to lynch chap and pre much anyone or you do believe chap in which case you'd want to lynch either me or tobi. (assuming that you trust strike)

[Skoffin]

So the people arguing hardest for Chaps plan in no particular order.

1. Tobi
2. Chap
3. Tx

People arguing most against it.

1. Skoffin
2. Pika
3. Zabeast

TX and Tobi have somewhat felt linked the last couple days with Tobi often supporting tx and backing up his logic on how healing poison should work Day 3. Chap was suspected early by both Mets and Aage and Aage seemed to comment that people more seemed to forget about Chap than clear the scum vibe.

Tobis pretty much proven that he has knowledge of a redirected action choices. Tx is a claimed healer/protector. Chaps plan does seem a bit overly complicated to have just been a scum ploy. Certainly there would have been an easier way to go about it...right?

ZaBeast claimed actions seem to be at odds with what others have said. Why? Skoffin was involved in a counter claim situati on thst helped lead to a townie death. She also seems to be being a bit unreasonably tempermental rather than focusing against Chaps plan in a way that's likely to yield positive results. Pika has posted some helpful information but as others have said, his actual scum hunting seems a little less impressive so the useful information could be just something he's hiding behind.

ZaBeast has generally felt like town to me and a few others I trust. With respect to the counter claim. Newer information points to several very similar roles existing in pairs. The cohesion between possible scum partners in this group seems less concrete than in the other group.

As an individual, Pika seems like a slightly better lynch. In terms of figuring out groups, Tobi feels better. Tx and Tobi feel more linked than Chap and either of them.

I'd say I'm slightly leaning Tobi for the vote right now.

Also of note that the people that benefit most from Chaps plan also happen to be tobi, chap and somewhat tx (because chap originally arbitrarily picked to add him to Group A)
I too benefit from his idea in terms of being taken off the lynch table, however since I see it as a bad idea that can harm town significantly I am against it.

I don't think chaps idea is too complictaed on the surface to be a scum ploy. It could go either way. If it's a scum ploy it confuses things enough to delay going for certain members, it aims to put control of lynches into select players hand and dooms those outside of those. May give you grounds on the being a bit temperamental part, but I don't see where I've been unreasonable or incorrect in poking holes in the general ideas here.

I agree there seems to be roles in pairs, which is also part why I want to take out people who have main actions involving redirecting/chancging night actions.



Where is my man Buj?

[BuJaber]

Hey skoffin what's up?

I'm sick and unable to think or catchup now.

You qanted something specific?

[Skoffin]

Give all your thoughts on players suspect or town whatever cos I might accidentally kill you or something maybe?

[BuJaber]

I guess I'm here, sorry with a game such as this I don't have a lot of confident reads.
I think Pika's role would be OP in scum's hands so he's the only real confident read.

One of these (at least) has to be scum because somebody misdirected me:
Chap
Tobi
ZaBeast

Town to townish in no order:
Pika
Skoffin
Strike wolf
Ragian

Iffy to scummy in no order:
Sirius
Blacky
TX

[Skoffin]

Unfortunately we don't have the time to get votes on Chap (where your vote currently is), would you be willing to swap to tobi considering you have him on your scum list and it's between him and pika?

[BuJaber]

Unfortunately we don't have the time to get votes on Chap (where your vote currently is), would you be willing to swap to tobi considering you have him on your scum list and it's between him and pika?

Alright unvote vote Tobikera

[Skoffin]

I'm somewhat uncomfortable that you agree with me. No one does as I ask.

unvote vote tobi

[TX AG 90]

At the risk of being humiliated when this is over, I currently lean this way. They are in no particular order, that seems to change with every post I digest

Scum and/or 3rd Party Lean
blacky, pikanchion, sirius kase (possible 3rd party), skoffin (possible 3rd party)

Town Lean
Za Beast

Unsure
Rest

Well, if you think I'm town (thanks about that btw) let's go back to the possibilities I posted

Here are the possibilities as I see them:
- I lied and didn't redirect tobi (didn't happen)
- tobi lied and isn't master redirector, but someone else on his scum team is
- tobi is master redirector, and BuJ and pika lied/are wrong about BuJ getting redirected; TX lied about not getting redirected
- tobi is master redirector, and BuJ has been bussed : chap is lying as he didn't bus who he claimed to; TX is lying about not being redirected

Since you have a town read on me and you won't admit to lying, options 1,3 and 4 should be void. Therefore what are you waiting for voting Tobi as per option 2? That's as close as a 100% chance of catching scum from your point of view as you'll get today. Unless I missed something and there are other options, obviously.

Beast, this part of your quote sums up why I can't buy into Option 2 yet:

Unless I missed something and there are other options, obviously.

. Just because we can't explain something, doesn't make it unexplainable. I went through this with Chap earlier. He was insistent that there couldn't be multiple poisoners N1 because if there were, someone else besides blacky would have claimed they were poisoned and asked for help. He failed to think of the possibility that the poisoned one could heal themselves (me!). I'm not familiar enough with all the possible roles, abilities, and mechanics of this game to discount that there may be a 5th option you aren't thinking or aware of.

I would have no problem voting Tobi here if he was Group B, but since I think Chaps plan either has merit or is a great scum play, I have no choice but to vote for someone in Group B or Chap himself. I don't see any other options right now.

[TX AG 90]

Well technically from your perspective you'd either not believe chap and want to lynch chap and pre much anyone or you do believe chap in which case you'd want to lynch either me or tobi. (assuming that you trust strike)

What are you talking about? You and Tobi are both Group A. If anybody believes Chap, you and Tobi are NOT on the lynch list.

Quit trying to confuse people.

[TX AG 90]

Also of note that the people that benefit most from Chaps plan also happen to be tobi, chap and somewhat tx (because chap originally arbitrarily picked to add him to Group A)
I too benefit from his idea in terms of being taken off the lynch table, however since I see it as a bad idea that can harm town significantly I am against it.

You are thinking like an individual and not a team, more scumming from you. EVERYBODY that is town benefits from Chap's plan whether you are Group A or Group B. Assuming of course Cap's plan is truthful and works. This isn't about A vs. B. It's about a Group; "B"; that has a higher % of scum in them than Group A. Town members from Group B should also be trying to ferret out which Group B member is scummiest so we can lynch them and move on with the plan.

Skoffin, I wish you were Group B so I could vote for you. You are way up there on my scum list (though I think 3rd party is in play here).

[TX AG 90]

Chap,

What was the wording when you were told the number of scum in your Group of 4?

Was it any kind of scum or just Mafia?

In other words, if Skoffin is 3rd Party would that have been noted? Could it be that 1 out of the other 3 are scum and Skoffin is 3rd Party?

[TX AG 90]

Chap,

What was the wording when you were told the number of scum in your Group of 4?

Was it any kind of scum or just Mafia?

In other words, if Skoffin is 3rd Party would that have been noted? Could it be that 1 out of the other 3 are scum and Skoffin is 3rd Party?

EBMOP

Could it be that 1 out of the other 3 are [color=#00BF00]Mafia and Skoffin is 3rd Party scum?[/color]

[Tobikera]

My last words:
Among those voting for a Town player (me) are at least 3 scum....mark them well for tomorrow, if the game continues. I am resigned to my fate and will offer nothing else except my vote.

I would suggest ZB, pika, Skoffin, and perhaps BuJaber (but, less sure about him). Scum have a reason for voting me. Townies that vote for me are on my misguided, dumbshit list. It's been my opinion since D2 that scum will win this game. As a townie, I have played a strategy, in part, to get night killed. Whether scum have ignored my attempts to piss them off, have been blocked, held in abeyance, or otherwise foiled, only one night kill (we think) has occurred. Thus, my strategy failed. Good luck to all townies....may they get another day and see the light.

[TX AG 90]

Chap,

What was the wording when you were told the number of scum in your Group of 4?

Was it any kind of scum or just Mafia?

In other words, if Skoffin is 3rd Party would that have been noted? Could it be that 1 out of the other 3 are scum and Skoffin is 3rd Party?

EBMOP

Could it be that 1 out of the other 3 are [color=#00BF00]Mafia and Skoffin is 3rd Party scum?[/color]

EBMOP

I so suck at this:

Could it be that 1 out of the other 3 are MAFIA and Skoffin is 3rd Party Scum?

[Ragian]

I can't see Tobi being scum.

Vote Pika

It's him, Sirius, or Black for me. I'll try to check in later today, but I'll go booze for a bit now.

[strike wolf]

Vote Tobi

@tx: She's applying the same logic for Rage as she did for herself. Where she eliminated herself and me as a suspect than Chaps plan equal numbers from her viewpoint of scum vs town. From my viewpoint, Chaps plan just has too many it's, and or buts to make it feel reliable.

[BuJaber]

I can't see Tobi being scum.

Vote Pika

It's him, Sirius, or Black for me. I'll try to check in later today, but I'll go booze for a bit now.

Dead townie (aage) confirmed that I am town.
I am confirming that Pika did in fact receive my n2 result. No way that's a coincidence.

Nobody has claimed to redirect aage or pika.

Therefore unless you think scum have a role THAT ALLOWS YOU TO SEE PRIVATE COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THE MOD AND A TOWNIE, you should never ever vote pika.

[ZaBeast]

We don't even know what pika's role is, I don't see how you can see it as being alignment indicative. All he's done is confirm a player a dead townie confirmed as town was indeed town (and he hasn't even explicitly said it, though I would expect him to vote you if it wasn't the case). I don't really see how that would make him town. Scum with his ability would jump on this opportunity to get easy town cred without actually hurting his team.

[ZaBeast]

btw that's L-1 for tobi (5 votes) (pika, me, BuJ, skoff, sw)
and L-3 for pika (3 votes) (TX, tobi, Rage)

[ZaBeast]

As a townie, I have played a strategy, in part, to get night killed. Whether scum have ignored my attempts to piss them off, have been blocked, held in abeyance, or otherwise foiled, only one night kill (we think) has occurred. Thus, my strategy failed. Good luck to all townies....may they get another day and see the light.

IF I was scum, I would target the quiet ones for a night kill, if they weren't among the mafia cadre. It's like they have a neon sign on them saying I"m town and I'm important, if they are town that is. One more lynch of a townie and one more night and it's over.

Yeah, sure. You think scum would be better off killing the people who haven't claimed yet, yet to try to get night killed you claim early an ability scum should have no reason to get rid of, and do close to no scumhunting other than putting people who suspect you in your scum list. Wonder where your plan went wrong.