INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

[Sirius Kase]

It may just be because I'm having difficulty focusing and missed it but Sirius what about Pika and Blacky's claims make them mutually exclusive?

They aren't mutually exclusive. It's just neither of them has won my trust. It's possible that they are both town and will both bring good information to the table. They do have slightly different roles. Pika gets the PM, Blacky gets the flavor and role. That could be a powerful combination.

Don’t you mean me and chap?

It's natural to take people in pairs. But, we have four players with investigative abilities. I doubt they are all town, but they can't all be scum either. It's just easier to take them two at a time. Since Pika is a discussion leader, he must be vetted. Rage is passive. His explanation appears honest. Chap is already scum in my mind, unless he pops in really soon and says something really clever.

Rage has claimed that from his night action, one of me and chap are scum

Do we trust Rage? I hope so, he seems honest. It would be very convenient if you and chap were mutually exclusive. The way Rage does his test, it may be so. Seems too complicated to be a lie.

I know I may have been on some ppls scum list and then rages comment confirmed it for them.
However, I will obviously defend myself but I’m not sure why chap has gone silent.

I don't want to make excuses for him. It might be real life. That's why I say he should at least say "hi". But, he might be scum and just not want to face the music. Maybe you and Pika should be retested by Rage? Clap, too. Throw in a healer and maybe no one gets hurt.

It is also very conceivable that rage is wrong about me and chap. Either because his result was inaccurate due to the randomness of last nights targets or because he is scum and is inventing bs to get town to lynch more townies and shift focus away from the scum
It stands to reason that if either of us are lynched today and flip town then he will try to convince you that the other must be scum and so an easy and obvious lynch... thus eliminating two more townsfolk

Maybe I don't understand what Rage does. Last night sure was weird. Then Scoffin taking the credit or the blame. And puffer fish? She contradicted herself. It was too obvious to be a mistake, so I don't know. I'd like to investigate her, too, but the priority is to get trustworthy cops and healers. But, all N4 actions and results are suspect.

It's close to lylo, so we really need to know who our cops and healers are. The sooner we can settle into a nice game of follow the cop, the better. If it should turn out that both of you are town, we will have virtually won.

[Sirius Kase]

So, I'm still focused on who do we trust between Pika and Blacky? It's not enough knowing what they can do, must know alignment, too. We should test them. I was tempted to suggest having them investigate each other, but surely one would lie and the other wouldn't, and we wouldn't have learned anything. I can see from my forum searches that Pika has been playing Mafia for years and Blacky hasn't. The ability to tell a believable lie correlates more with experience than with scumminess.

A better test would be for them to both investigate the same player, report their results, then have the investigated player make a claim or be lynched. Who to investigate? Claptrap? But that means we can't lynch him since investigations must be conducted at night. Or go ahead and lynch him, and investigate some other player of interest.

You're making an awful lot of assumptions about the nature of my role. Besides, even if everything you assume about me is true: blacky365 has not claimed any ability capable of categorically identifying alignment. We still have two players claiming to be misdirection roles also, neither of whom are verified in any way, making any publicly stated plan a fool's errand.

We need a plan to coordinate out night actions. What I presented is not a plan, but a start of a plan. We are swimming in stagnant water. We have multiples of everything. So, ordinary counter claiming doesn't work. We must understand our investigative capabilities. If this isn't a good time to create a plan, when is a better time? If you'd like, we can continue to twiddle our thumbs waiting for clap to claim. But, that's not fun, why not work on this? Do you find it personally threatening? It's not meant that way. I just think it's good to start with investigators. Then everything else will be easy.

[ZaBeast]

So what I get from Sirius' latest posts is that he doesn't trust Pika and chap and would be ready to vote chap. Any town reads? You've been pretty stingy with your opinions throughout the game. Apart from your votes, I don't recall seeing you voicing a read on anybody, and that's scummy because people can't judge your alignment if you don't give them something to work with.

It's close to lylo, so we really need to know who our cops and healers are. The sooner we can settle into a nice game of follow the cop, the better. If it should turn out that both of you are town, we will have virtually won.

"It's close to lylo, let's wait one more day before we scumhunt"

I don't have time to make a proper rebuttal of your plan but it wouldn't work because pika claimed the wiretapping was his bonus ability, which, it seems I haven't mentionned enough, CAN ONLY BE USED ONCE.

@blacky I had you as a scum read (and still have you leaning scummy) but it's a close call between you and chap. I'm still trying to figure out why BuJ didn't end up on mets on N2, which is the main reason chap went up my scum reads. Hopefully other claims will sort that out.

Do you think a misdirect master could override other misdirections? Since tobi flipped scum, I assume he would have hidden that aspect of his role if that was the case, though my pm clearly states my target was going towards TX after I bumped it.

[Sirius Kase]

So what I get from Sirius' latest posts is that he doesn't trust Pika and chap and would be ready to vote chap. Any town reads? You've been pretty stingy with your opinions throughout the game. Apart from your votes, I don't recall seeing you voicing a read on anybody, and that's scummy because people can't judge your alignment if you don't give them something to work with.

It's close to lylo, so we really need to know who our cops and healers are. The sooner we can settle into a nice game of follow the cop, the better. If it should turn out that both of you are town, we will have virtually won.

"It's close to lylo, let's wait one more day before we scumhunt"

I don't have time to make a proper rebuttal of your plan but it wouldn't work because pika claimed the wiretapping was his bonus ability, which, it seems I haven't mentionned enough, CAN ONLY BE USED ONCE.

Actually, no, I missed that, but it isn't from lack of trying. Still I missed it. Could you please tell me when you said wiretapping is his bonus ability which can only be used once? But, I thank you for shooting that idea down before we wasted any time on it.

@blacky I had you as a scum read (and still have you leaning scummy) but it's a close call between you and chap. I'm still trying to figure out why BuJ didn't end up on mets on N2, which is the main reason chap went up my scum reads. Hopefully other claims will sort that out.

Do you think a misdirect master could override other misdirections? Since tobi flipped scum, I assume he would have hidden that aspect of his role if that was the case, though my pm clearly states my target was going towards TX after I bumped it.

Two definitions, I've refrained from asking too many questions, not if I thought google could find it for me. But, I'm apparently operating on unsatisfactory definitions for "scum hunting" and "read". The best I found for the first is that it can't be defined because it keeps changing. Okay, it's like hacking in that respect. I'll learn by watching master scum hunters at work. But, I'm going to need to see something happen that I want to emulate. So far, I've seen a technique where townies get knocked around a bit, then lynched. I don't think that is how to win. The other is "read", as in "town read" or "scum read". I thought it was being used as a synonym for opinion, but you don't notice my opinions either. So, it might not be my problem. Anyway, If I can do it differently, more effectively, please tell me how. Have you already forgotten that this is my first Mafia? Most people picked up on that rather quickly. Thanks in advance for all your assistance.

[Sirius Kase]

@pika a little help, where did you say that you could only wire tap once? ZaBeast said he said it many times, but he couldn't have said it unless you said it first. If I made an error, let's straighten it out fast. We need a good working relationship.

[ZaBeast]

I said plenty times that bonus actions were a 1-off thing during D4 because chaps was also assuming he could use his action again. It's also written in the rules somewhere.

Pika also explicitly confirmed his bonus action was no exception here

Yeah reads are opinions on people's alignments. Most of your posts are about how you don't know if something makes someone scummy but others should consider/discuss about or theories about the setup. Do you expect people to learn your alignment through posts discussing the possibility of a sleeper cell mafia team?

[Skoffin]

Honestly I've been skimming past Serius' post and I doubt I'm missing much. Either scum or useless. Or both lol

I am finding it hard to believe that chap was here up until it was his turn to claim, and now he's whooshed elsewhere. This order thing is going to run out the clock.
In anycase, today's lynch should be between Ragoo, myself and Chap.

Will post more after work.

[Pikanchion]

Looking at it, chapcrap hasn't actually posted in either of the running mafia games (or the forums generally) in almost a week, so I would ask for a mod prod and if that fails to get a response a replacement...

[TX AG 90]

Honestly I've been skimming past Serius' post and I doubt I'm missing much. Either scum or useless. Or both lol

I am finding it hard to believe that chap was here up until it was his turn to claim, and now he's whooshed elsewhere. This order thing is going to run out the clock.
In anycase, today's lynch should be between Ragoo, myself and Chap.

Will post more after work.

You forgot blacky.

Chap, you, Ragian, or blacky.

[Sirius Kase]

I said plenty times that bonus actions were a 1-off thing during D4 because chaps was also assuming he could use his action again. It's also written in the rules somewhere.

plenty of times, right, my reading comprehension isn't that bad. Yours isn't either if what you linked to was the most relevent example.

Pika also explicitly confirmed his bonus action was no exception here

Yeah reads are opinions on people's alignments. Most of your posts are about how you don't know if something makes someone scummy but others should consider/discuss about or theories about the setup. Do you expect people to learn your alignment through posts discussing the possibility of a sleeper cell mafia team?

I haven't posted anything like that in over a month. I've come a long way. Give me some credit.

Your "Here" links to

*Mine clearly was one-time when I was successful

Words, whatever, I'm a little tipsy right now.

Mine? so i scrolled back to put together a meaningful conversation.

Rage and pika, you both said you went for food. Is it clear when you get it it's a 1-time thing?

Mine did when I was successful, and having gone for it N1 I can't be certain if this information was revealed as a result of having been successful or if it would have also been beforehand had I fulfilled the reveal conditions prior to actually unlocking the ability. My PM did not indicate that every bonus ability is like that, but for another to have an ability that is at least as powerful (if not more) not be limited in the same way seems suspect to me.

No clue that you are asking about bonus abilities. Pika addressed your question about going for food then segued into abilities. That wasn't enough to make a connection without what you wrote today. My bonus ability isn't linked to going for food, and it isn't a one off either. Or maybe it is, but it appears to be an enhancement of my original ability which I apparently used successfully. I need to go back and figure out if it's a one off. It's not described in my Role PM as being a one off.

Thanks for pointing out something for me to reread. I binge read D4, not exactly skimming, but after an hour or so, my reading comprehension goes down. I've read the rules many times, but not quite enough to memorize them, so I guess they are due for another read.

One last thing, You think I'm not forthcoming enough? I'm playing to win, but I also don't want to give anyone a reason to kill me. I'm not going to reveal everything I know. So, I'm probably being too cautious. I'm imitating to the best of my abilities some of the other players. It's a way to learn. Another way to learn would have been to pair with a more experienced player and have the pair play as one. I usually pick up games fast enough to not need that sorta thing, but I highly recommend that for some first timers.

I'm trying, and reading, and thinking, and trying to write enough for everyone to know that. So bear with me, or arrange to have me killed.

[Ragian]

While we're at it, remember that my investigation was a one time ability, too.

I'm deciding between chap or blacky (hence my vote). Skoffin can wait.

[Sirius Kase]

@sirius
Btw, since you were mia when pikas plan was being discussed... for the record, would you have agreed to it? And if so, who would you have nominated to go first?

I'm not sure. At the time, probably. I would have wanted to use the first step to confirm someone as town. Therefore BuJ, or maybe Strike Wolf. Then let that person decide who claims next. But, I'm playing very cautiously, maybe too cautiously. I don't trust anyone, so that's a hurdle to address.

[Ragian]

So...if you had to vote between Chap and Blacky, who'd it be, Sirius?

[Skoffin]

Honestly I've been skimming past Serius' post and I doubt I'm missing much. Either scum or useless. Or both lol

I am finding it hard to believe that chap was here up until it was his turn to claim, and now he's whooshed elsewhere. This order thing is going to run out the clock.
In anycase, today's lynch should be between Ragoo, myself and Chap.

Will post more after work.

You forgot blacky.

Chap, you, Ragian, or blacky.

No, not blacky. I'm going off chap's bus/investigation from yesterday wherein he said that there is 1 scum out of ragoo/tobi/myself/strike. People here have claimed that tobi would have appeared as town on that report, and if that is the case then strike/ragoo/me are still suspect by that report. Chap is added for obvious reasons, and no one really suspects strike. Therefore ragoo, chap and me should be the focus.

[Skoffin]

So...if you had to vote between Chap and Blacky, who'd it be, Sirius?

He has spent the entire game not naming someone, stop pressuring him Ragoo! Gosh
He is either too scared to state a solid opinion on anyone or he's scum in the awkward position of both those options being his partner.

[Ragian]

So...if you had to vote between Chap and Blacky, who'd it be, Sirius?

He has spent the entire game not naming someone, stop pressuring him Ragoo! Gosh
He is either too scared to state a solid opinion on anyone or he's scum in the awkward position of both those options being his partner.

Only one of them is scum Also, I do not trust anything chap has said due to the fact that I think he's scum.

[blacky365]

Honestly I've been skimming past Serius' post and I doubt I'm missing much. Either scum or useless. Or both lol

I am finding it hard to believe that chap was here up until it was his turn to claim, and now he's whooshed elsewhere. This order thing is going to run out the clock.
In anycase, today's lynch should be between Ragoo, myself and Chap.

Will post more after work.

You forgot blacky.

Chap, you, Ragian, or blacky.

No, not blacky. I'm going off chap's bus/investigation from yesterday wherein he said that there is 1 scum out of ragoo/tobi/myself/strike. People here have claimed that tobi would have appeared as town on that report, and if that is the case then strike/ragoo/me are still suspect by that report. Chap is added for obvious reasons, and no one really suspects strike. Therefore ragoo, chap and me should be the focus.

Thanks for putting these together... I think we have missed something here!
Chap claimed that 1 out of a group of 4 is scum - Rage is in that group
Rage claimed that 1 out of a group of 2 is scum - Chap is in that group

Might I be so bold as to say one of these two are lying...?

[Skoffin]

So...if you had to vote between Chap and Blacky, who'd it be, Sirius?

He has spent the entire game not naming someone, stop pressuring him Ragoo! Gosh
He is either too scared to state a solid opinion on anyone or he's scum in the awkward position of both those options being his partner.

Only one of them is scum Also, I do not trust anything chap has said due to the fact that I think he's scum.

I'm confused

[BuJaber]

Let's lynch chap

Unvote Vote chapcrap

Blacky's not off the hook him not being able to use his ability after being healed doesn't match up with what happened to me but maybe maybe ragian and/or skoffin are scum, and for me to be able to consider those 2 as scum I need to see chap flip town. If chap flips scum as expected then those 2 go back to being townreads.

[BuJaber]

So...if you had to vote between Chap and Blacky, who'd it be, Sirius?

He has spent the entire game not naming someone, stop pressuring him Ragoo! Gosh
He is either too scared to state a solid opinion on anyone or he's scum in the awkward position of both those options being his partner.

Only one of them is scum Also, I do not trust anything chap has said due to the fact that I think he's scum.

I'm confused

Ragian claimed he used his bonus ability last night and targetted TX, Blacky, and chap. The result he received is that 1 of those 3 is a healer and only 1 of the non-healers is scum.

[Skoffin]

So...if you had to vote between Chap and Blacky, who'd it be, Sirius?

He has spent the entire game not naming someone, stop pressuring him Ragoo! Gosh
He is either too scared to state a solid opinion on anyone or he's scum in the awkward position of both those options being his partner.

Only one of them is scum Also, I do not trust anything chap has said due to the fact that I think he's scum.

I'm confused

Ragian claimed he used his bonus ability last night and targetted TX, Blacky, and chap. The result he received is that 1 of those 3 is a healer and only 1 of the non-healers is scum.

Oh... right.. yes I defiantly was paying attention nothing to see here.

[BuJaber]

Oh... right.. yes I defiantly was paying attention nothing to see here.

What an anarchist

[Razorvich]

Day 5 will end: CC Time: 2019-05-13 05:59:59

[Skoffin]

So we have 3 days for literally everyone except Blacky to take their 'turn' claiming. LOL can we drop that idea now

[Ragian]

Honestly I've been skimming past Serius' post and I doubt I'm missing much. Either scum or useless. Or both lol

I am finding it hard to believe that chap was here up until it was his turn to claim, and now he's whooshed elsewhere. This order thing is going to run out the clock.
In anycase, today's lynch should be between Ragoo, myself and Chap.

Will post more after work.

You forgot blacky.

Chap, you, Ragian, or blacky.

No, not blacky. I'm going off chap's bus/investigation from yesterday wherein he said that there is 1 scum out of ragoo/tobi/myself/strike. People here have claimed that tobi would have appeared as town on that report, and if that is the case then strike/ragoo/me are still suspect by that report. Chap is added for obvious reasons, and no one really suspects strike. Therefore ragoo, chap and me should be the focus.

Thanks for putting these together... I think we have missed something here!
Chap claimed that 1 out of a group of 4 is scum - Rage is in that group
Rage claimed that 1 out of a group of 2 is scum - Chap is in that group

Might I be so bold as to say one of these two are lying...?

You would because if it's not chap, it's you. Could you be a doll and visit me tonight if you're the actual scum?