PKMN Beach Mafia: Cult Wins

[aage]

aage, I like your plan... though I could easily get roleblocked or Mandy protected if we openly say to shoot exactly him.

That's fine. If mafia wants to spend the night roleblocking you instead of the investigative roles, they're welcome to. If Mandy gets protected that doesn't really matter either, then we have a living busdriver who is very likely town.

But if mandy busses him again with for example you... you will die from my shot, you are aware of that? or if he busses him with me, I'll shoot myself... that's one more reason why not to say who should be shot or at least give few targets...

Yep, those are options. But you're shooting Mandy anyway.

[dakky21]

Yep, those are options. But you're shooting Mandy anyway.

OK, but I'd still like to hear what others think.

[Army of GOD]

if mandy buses himself for aage despite mandy attaining his second win con (allegedly) then we lynch mandy immediately

[Army of GOD]

I support aage's proposal. I think everything should play out how we want

[Army of GOD]

actually, before we end the day, I'd support a massclaim from the rest of the unclaims to see if someone claims a weird role that could f*ck with the results of the night actions

[Army of GOD]

actually, before we end the day, I'd support a massclaim from the rest of the unclaimed to see if someone claims a weird role that could f*ck with the results of the night actions

insignificant ebwop

[mandalorian2298]

I'll claim. I was IB's other half as a town mason. My secondary WC was that IB had to survive, but it looks like IB made sure that didn't happen...

That's exactly what I thought, so I still have you as town.

Also, instead of leaving it up to dakky, I think we should tell dakky who to pick...that way at least we'll be in control of his night kill

That's exactly what I suggested earlier you're town, please keep up.

I'm going to vote william

I think the entire discussion around probabilities and whatnot is a smokescreen to act like he's making actually accusations.

That's just silly. William shared that he targeted me with his ability, and got a result on Mandy. Then Mandy claimed he is busdriver and switched me and himself. It's really simple - either they are both lying, or they are both telling the truth.
The same is likely true for Dakky+Mitch, if Dakky is scum Mitch is lying about his result, if Mitch is scum he wouldn't protect a town by fake claiming.

The only vaguely possible other option I can see is if Tim's "surfer" role is a busdrive, DY is an ass for not calling it that and Mandy took advantage of the situation. Even in that situation, Will is still town, and I'd like to assume DY is not a bastard.


We can spend the day lynching one of these four to confirm the other as town/scum, but that seems like a waste. We can use night actions for that. I suggest we do lynch Marashu today. If he dies, he lies; if he lives, he's probably town. Unlynchable mafia is about the most unbalanced thing I've ever heard of.

Here's what I suggest.
We lynch Marashu. Dakky, I want to alter the proposal I made; you no longer get a choice. Shoot Mandy tonight. Mandy, use your role however you see fit. You already claim to have fulfilled your 2nd wincon so you could die to confirm William's alignment and still win. William, check out Strike. Mitch, check out hotshot. Then everyone who survives reports back the next day. I think we should be able to puzzle it out.

A most splendid of plans!
My vote on Aog was based 50% on really thinking that he really is scum, 45% on his submarrining (dude, Mafia doesn't get more interested than this. If you are not willing to put the effort now, as opposed to staying silent for 4 days, I really don't know why play at all) and 5% on his hutful sig, since I am Psyduck (by request).
Mind you, I will leave a FOS on Aog since I still can't get over the fact how he voted wiiliam in the same sentence in which he condemned needlessly risking a detective lynch. As the Bard put it in his famous teen drama:

"What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;"


unvote vote Marashu because he's a big boy and can take a lynch or two.

Guess right, Doc!

[mandalorian2298]

I'll claim. I was IB's other half as a town mason. My secondary WC was that IB had to survive, but it looks like IB made sure that didn't happen...

That's exactly what I thought, so I still have you as town.

Also, instead of leaving it up to dakky, I think we should tell dakky who to pick...that way at least we'll be in control of his night kill

That's exactly what I suggested earlier you're town, please keep up.

I'm going to vote william

I think the entire discussion around probabilities and whatnot is a smokescreen to act like he's making actually accusations.

That's just silly. William shared that he targeted me with his ability, and got a result on Mandy. Then Mandy claimed he is busdriver and switched me and himself. It's really simple - either they are both lying, or they are both telling the truth.
The same is likely true for Dakky+Mitch, if Dakky is scum Mitch is lying about his result, if Mitch is scum he wouldn't protect a town by fake claiming.

The only vaguely possible other option I can see is if Tim's "surfer" role is a busdrive, DY is an ass for not calling it that and Mandy took advantage of the situation. Even in that situation, Will is still town, and I'd like to assume DY is not a bastard.


We can spend the day lynching one of these four to confirm the other as town/scum, but that seems like a waste. We can use night actions for that. I suggest we do lynch Marashu today. If he dies, he lies; if he lives, he's probably town. Unlynchable mafia is about the most unbalanced thing I've ever heard of.

Here's what I suggest.
We lynch Marashu. Dakky, I want to alter the proposal I made; you no longer get a choice. Shoot Mandy tonight. Mandy, use your role however you see fit. You already claim to have fulfilled your 2nd wincon so you could die to confirm William's alignment and still win. William, check out Strike. Mitch, check out hotshot. Then everyone who survives reports back the next day. I think we should be able to puzzle it out.

A most splendid of plans!
My vote on Aog was based 50% on really thinking that he really is scum, 45% on his submarrining (dude, Mafia doesn't get more interesting than this. If you are not willing to put the effort now, as opposed to staying silent for 4 days, I really don't know why play at all) and 5% on his hurtful sig, since I am Psyduck (by request).
Mind you, I will leave a FOS on Aog since I still can't get over the fact how he voted wiiliam in the same sentence in which he condemned needlessly risking a detective lynch. As the Bard put it in his famous teen drama:

"What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet;"


unvote vote Marashu because he's a big boy and can take a lynch or two.

Guess right, Doc!

Peer-pressured into EBWOP

[dakky21]

if mandy buses himself for aage despite mandy attaining his second win con (allegedly) then we lynch mandy immediately

But Mandy will have to bus someone, otherwise he'll be killed. I already see he will bus himself into me, making me faint without a battle. Achievement reached, trying to lynch me whole day replaced with killing me at night and mafia having another shot... that being said, I'd rather be lynched today than lynching Marashu, as that one lynch can mean something if Mars is town. If there are 3 scum alive, lynching Marashu and 2 nightkills means there will be no tomorrow as it will be 3 town vs 3 scum.

[aage]

if mandy buses himself for aage despite mandy attaining his second win con (allegedly) then we lynch mandy immediately

But Mandy will have to bus someone, otherwise he'll be killed. I already see he will bus himself into me, making me faint without a battle. Achievement reached, trying to lynch me whole day replaced with killing me at night and mafia having another shot... that being said, I'd rather be lynched today than lynching Marashu, as that one lynch can mean something if Mars is town. If there are 3 scum alive, lynching Marashu and 2 nightkills means there will be no tomorrow as it will be 3 town vs 3 scum.

Marashu claims he can't be lynched. If he's right, it'll be 4v3. If he's lying, scum down. So just shoot Mandy.

[aage]

if mandy buses himself for aage despite mandy attaining his second win con (allegedly) then we lynch mandy immediately

But Mandy will have to bus someone, otherwise he'll be killed. I already see he will bus himself into me, making me faint without a battle. Achievement reached, trying to lynch me whole day replaced with killing me at night and mafia having another shot... that being said, I'd rather be lynched today than lynching Marashu, as that one lynch can mean something if Mars is town. If there are 3 scum alive, lynching Marashu and 2 nightkills means there will be no tomorrow as it will be 3 town vs 3 scum.

Marashu claims he can't be lynched. If he's right, it'll be 4v3. If he's lying, scum down. So just shoot Mandy.

Actually, that's even assuming there are 3 more scum, which might not even be the case.

[dakky21]

Marashu claims he can't be lynched. If he's right, it'll be 4v3. If he's lying, scum down. So just shoot Mandy.

Right, forgot about that he claimed non-lynchable. I'll shoot Mandy, just don't see what's the difference if I just shoot myself straight away LOL.

[dakky21]

This got me thinking a little bit more.... aage being so eager to lynch non-lynchable Marashu and Mandy following his case out of nothing... tells me they could be working together... because one thing:

If Marashu is telling the truth, lynching him is same as no lynch, but with a minor difference, we will know he is telling the truth. But, we still won't know the alignment. Don't know if you have read Random Historical Mafia we played not long ago... I was there unlynchable mafia Godfather... so all assumptions that a non-lynchable player is town are wrong.

So aage, that being said, Marashu could be non-lynchable scum, with you and Mandy tricking us into your plot like I said in post on Page 10. Lynch Rish, gain town-cred, and then complete the mission as intended. Keep saying I'm town, make me read you as town, you read yourself as town MVP... use my vig kill for shooting Mandy who will bus the kill to another town and hope that I turn to SK so you can win instantly tonight.

If I'm wrong, correct me...

[aage]

This got me thinking a little bit more.... aage being so eager to lynch non-lynchable Marashu and Mandy following his case out of nothing... tells me they could be working together... because one thing:

If Marashu is telling the truth, lynching him is same as no lynch, but with a minor difference, we will know he is telling the truth. But, we still won't know the alignment. Don't know if you have read Random Historical Mafia we played not long ago... I was there unlynchable mafia Godfather... so all assumptions that a non-lynchable player is town are wrong.

So aage, that being said, Marashu could be non-lynchable scum, with you and Mandy tricking us into your plot like I said in post on Page 10. Lynch Rish, gain town-cred, and then complete the mission as intended. Keep saying I'm town, make me read you as town, you read yourself as town MVP... use my vig kill for shooting Mandy who will bus the kill to another town and hope that I turn to SK so you can win instantly tonight.

If I'm wrong, correct me...

You're wrong.


That would rely on a lot of misplays, including Mandy being stupid enough to claim Busdriver when William claimed his role. Couldve said nothing and let him get lynched, which would have let us win way easier. Your seeming obsession with me having hatched some sort of master plot is flattering, but wrong.

[Army of GOD]

This got me thinking a little bit more.... aage being so eager to lynch non-lynchable Marashu and Mandy following his case out of nothing... tells me they could be working together... because one thing:

If Marashu is telling the truth, lynching him is same as no lynch, but with a minor difference, we will know he is telling the truth. But, we still won't know the alignment. Don't know if you have read Random Historical Mafia we played not long ago... I was there unlynchable mafia Godfather... so all assumptions that a non-lynchable player is town are wrong.

So aage, that being said, Marashu could be non-lynchable scum, with you and Mandy tricking us into your plot like I said in post on Page 10. Lynch Rish, gain town-cred, and then complete the mission as intended. Keep saying I'm town, make me read you as town, you read yourself as town MVP... use my vig kill for shooting Mandy who will bus the kill to another town and hope that I turn to SK so you can win instantly tonight.

If I'm wrong, correct me...

You're wrong.


That would rely on a lot of misplays, including Mandy being stupid enough to claim Busdriver when William claimed his role. Couldve said nothing and let him get lynched, which would have let us win way easier. Your seeming obsession with me having hatched some sort of master plot is flattering, but wrong.

why would william have been lynched if mandy said nothing? william's claim led to an immediate unvote, there was less pressure on him than before he claimed

[aage]

This got me thinking a little bit more.... aage being so eager to lynch non-lynchable Marashu and Mandy following his case out of nothing... tells me they could be working together... because one thing:

If Marashu is telling the truth, lynching him is same as no lynch, but with a minor difference, we will know he is telling the truth. But, we still won't know the alignment. Don't know if you have read Random Historical Mafia we played not long ago... I was there unlynchable mafia Godfather... so all assumptions that a non-lynchable player is town are wrong.

So aage, that being said, Marashu could be non-lynchable scum, with you and Mandy tricking us into your plot like I said in post on Page 10. Lynch Rish, gain town-cred, and then complete the mission as intended. Keep saying I'm town, make me read you as town, you read yourself as town MVP... use my vig kill for shooting Mandy who will bus the kill to another town and hope that I turn to SK so you can win instantly tonight.

If I'm wrong, correct me...

You're wrong.


That would rely on a lot of misplays, including Mandy being stupid enough to claim Busdriver when William claimed his role. Couldve said nothing and let him get lynched, which would have let us win way easier. Your seeming obsession with me having hatched some sort of master plot is flattering, but wrong.

why would william have been lynched if mandy said nothing? william's claim led to an immediate unvote, there was less pressure on him than before he claimed

Cause nobody would have corroborated his story of busdriver.

[dakky21]

You're wrong.

That would rely on a lot of misplays, including Mandy being stupid enough to claim Busdriver when William claimed his role. Couldve said nothing and let him get lynched, which would have let us win way easier. Your seeming obsession with me having hatched some sort of master plot is flattering, but wrong.

If I was right, you'd still say I'm wrong, because you can't confess I'm right, so your words mean nothing.

why would william have been lynched if mandy said nothing? william's claim led to an immediate unvote, there was less pressure on him than before he claimed

William claimed JOAT but claimed he picked an investigation role and that he was bussed, with Mandy being confirmed as town, while doing a sanity check. If he was sure aage was town (which could be wrong from the start) he got a check on Mandy, which doesn't proves his sanity. He could be naive or insane cop, so Mandy came up as town while possibly being scum. That theory just goes on with my plot story.

Then we have 2 lynches, on which all of them were in... aage, Mandy, Marashu and William. Then they tried to lynch me, Mandy and William from the time of my claim. William probably town but being blinded with his sanity and Mandy forcing an attack on me.

Then we have this:

Also, Tim's death seems like a vigi shot to me regardless of the scene flavour.

I asked aage how would he know it's a vigi shot, and he first said he doesn't have to explain anything to me, because he lead the lynch on Rish. Another point worth noticing, he did lead the lynch, but he made the double trade-off. He accused Rish for trying to get town points while he lead the lynch on him, making himself a town MVP.

Great strategy aage, but it won't work this time. I think you'll be my target for tonight.

[aage]

You're wrong.

That would rely on a lot of misplays, including Mandy being stupid enough to claim Busdriver when William claimed his role. Couldve said nothing and let him get lynched, which would have let us win way easier. Your seeming obsession with me having hatched some sort of master plot is flattering, but wrong.

If I was right, you'd still say I'm wrong, because you can't confess I'm right, so your words mean nothing.

why would william have been lynched if mandy said nothing? william's claim led to an immediate unvote, there was less pressure on him than before he claimed

William claimed JOAT but claimed he picked an investigation role and that he was bussed, with Mandy being confirmed as town, while doing a sanity check. If he was sure aage was town (which could be wrong from the start) he got a check on Mandy, which doesn't proves his sanity. He could be naive or insane cop, so Mandy came up as town while possibly being scum. That theory just goes on with my plot story.

Then we have 2 lynches, on which all of them were in... aage, Mandy, Marashu and William. Then they tried to lynch me, Mandy and William from the time of my claim. William probably town but being blinded with his sanity and Mandy forcing an attack on me.

Then we have this:

Also, Tim's death seems like a vigi shot to me regardless of the scene flavour.

I asked aage how would he know it's a vigi shot, and he first said he doesn't have to explain anything to me, because he lead the lynch on Rish. Another point worth noticing, he did lead the lynch, but he made the double trade-off. He accused Rish for trying to get town points while he lead the lynch on him, making himself a town MVP.

Great strategy aage, but it won't work this time. I think you'll be my target for tonight.

Your whole post (and all your posts for this day so far) assumes I must be scum and works from there... It's getting tiresome. So let me spell it out, not for you because clearly you have gone insane, but for the rest of town.


Dakky's theory of me being the evil scummy mastermind that's gonna kill you all is based entirely on strawmen and circular reasoning. When I presented my case on Rish and hounded him, Dakky spent the day saying I framed Rish. Day 3 he tried to strawman me on the vig kill, theorised over me lynching a mafia due to my second wincon, asserts that I'm mafia because he will be killed N3 (???), tries to tie me into William's role despite not having uttered a word about my suspicions towards William, and now brings up an extremely obscure and unbalanced role from a different game to justify his web of conspiracy. And we all know the bullshit that is his statistical prowess.

His current evolution of this massive conspiracy theory relies on me being mafia, Marashu being mafia, Mandy being mafia and William's role being either naive/insane cop or also mafia. Here's the icing on the cake, though. It also relies on me having planned in advance with these scumbuddies to (a) lynch rishaed, (b) busdrive two scum partners, and (c) to hang the unlynchable mafia the next day rather than just mislynching on town. If you hadn't noticed, I've worked quite extensively to avoid a mislynch today. If my grand plan was to first lynch a mafia member and lynch (perhaps unlynchable, but whatever) another mafia the next day, it doesn't seem like a plan any sane mafia crew would agree to.

Now, Dakky, I would still like to believe you're town. It makes the most sense. However, you pusing these theories makes it hard for me to take anything you say seriously. "If I was right, you'd still say I'm wrong, because you can't confess I'm right, so your words mean nothing"? What the hell is that wifom bullshit? You pulled the same trick here, it didn't work then, it doesn't work now. The sooner you realise your entire argument is based on assumptions and misconstructions, the better. This must honestly be the worst you've played in any mafia game I was also in.

[dakky21]

This must honestly be the worst you've played in any mafia game I was also in.

Probably, unless I'm right and you're lying, trying to get out of the current situation by any means necessary. I can be wrong, but the whole plot is just too perfect to be true. As I said back there, you're not playing the game for the 1st time and you know how to play while being scum and all what you said looks like a desperate defense of your master plan.

[william18]

actually, before we end the day, I'd support a massclaim from the rest of the unclaims to see if someone claims a weird role that could f*ck with the results of the night actions

I like the mass claim idea. I'm really curious what mechanism could possibly have occured to stop the mafia. Although i don't really like the idea of a doc revealing himself, we have mandy to switch him up. Mandy sort of bottlenecks the mafias actions, if we do a mass claim. If we are shooting mandy, then I don't think mass claiming might be a very good idea.

[mandalorian2298]

@Dakky You claim that we should treat you as a 100% Townie. Now is the time to prove that by shooting me. It is the optimal choice for the Town. Also, as I always say, a Townie doesn't have to survive to win.

BTW, if Aage gets NKed tonight and turns Town and I survive, I don't think that I'll need to give math lessons to get a lynch on you. This will suck for you no matter which side the coin flips because if you turn to SK then you loose if you are lynched and if you stay Town then lynching you will probably waste the last chance for the Town to stay alive.

@Mitch, William and, especially, Strike: Look alive people we are near the deadline. Vote Marashu or come up with an explanation why you don't want to vote Marashu. There will be a test.

@Marashu Just for the case of deadline emergancy: Do you remain unlynchable if you join your own bandwagon (vote yourself)?

if mandy buses himself for aage despite mandy attaining his second win con (allegedly) then we lynch mandy immediately

Aage has came up with a plan that is a) great and b) includes me getting shot. I don't want to him out of this game. At this point he is two boobs short from getting a marriage proposal.
So no, if he croaks it won't be from being bud-driven. Besides, we had no Doc deaths so I think he'll be safe tonight.

BTW, am I right in assuming that you are prepared to vote Marashu and you are just running down the clock until deadline so that the rest of players can post (or fail to do so) their opinion, correct?

[mandalorian2298]

@Dakky You claim that we should treat you as a 100% Townie. Now is the time to prove that by shooting me. It is the optimal choice for the Town. Also, as I always say, a Townie doesn't have to survive to win.

BTW, if Aage gets NKed tonight and turns Town and I survive, I don't think that I'll need to give math lessons to get a lynch on you. This will suck for you no matter which side the coin flips because if you turn to SK then you loose if you are lynched and if you stay Town then lynching you will probably waste the last chance for the Town to stay alive.

@Mitch, William and, especially, Strike: Look alive people we are near the deadline. Vote Marashu or come up with an explanation why you don't want to vote Marashu. There will be a test.

@Marashu Just for the case of deadline emergancy: Do you remain unlynchable if you join your own bandwagon (vote yourself)?

if mandy buses himself for aage despite mandy attaining his second win con (allegedly) then we lynch mandy immediately

Aage has came up with a plan that is a) great and b) includes me getting shot. I don't want to him out of this game. At this point he is two boobs short from getting a marriage proposal.
So no, if he croaks it won't be from being bus-driven. Besides, we had no Doc deaths so I think he'll be safe tonight.

BTW, am I right in assuming that you are prepared to vote Marashu and you are just running down the clock until deadline so that the rest of players can post (or fail to do so) their opinion, correct?

EBWOP, no pun was intended but it happened anyway

[Marashu]

Not sure how I feel about the mass claim today vs D4. I suppose I'm fine with it. I was hoping to trip up mafia tonight, but thinking about it, they have better choices than me tonight anyway, so I might as well fullclaim, since it might interfere with the town plan for N3 if mandy targets me.

I am Shedinja. Anything and everything that targets me (lynches included) gets cancelled. I'm not sure, but I suspect the only way I could have died would have been rish - if only you could have seen my face when he flipped unblockable. I can't be afflicted by strike's PR, killed by dakky's vig shot, people's actions can't be redirected to me by mandy's bus, etc. Unfortunately, I also can't be investigated by william or mitch. My personal wincon is that there has to be exactly 3 people alive at the end - not exactly easy or favourable for a townie to pull off. It's unclear if being 3 people and lynching down to 2, ending the game, counts.

I would imagine that this information will change our plan a little bit. Happy to play any part in it as necessary.

@dakky, of course I remember you as unlynchable mafia. This time I am unkillable town. There's the difference. If town has no way to eliminate me as mafia, then why is the game continuing? But now mafia knows not to target me as the game continues.

fp'd by mandy
@mandy, since I can't be targeted by anything, I can't think of a reason why I would lose my unlynchability by targeting myself for a lynch (re-reading my pm, it's worded in a way that suggests the lynch itself is an action, which then gets cancelled).

[aage]

As far as I'm concerned it doesn't change what I suggested. I consider you to be either dead by lynch or town and not targeted by other town roles.


Strike targeting his PR at Marashu might be a consideration if he is indeed unlynchable, just to check if he's telling the truth. Then again, I don't know to what extent we can trust Strike during the night. It's a consideration but ultimately not relevant to the outcome.

[mandalorian2298]

Not sure how I feel about the mass claim today vs D4. I suppose I'm fine with it. I was hoping to trip up mafia tonight, but thinking about it, they have better choices than me tonight anyway, so I might as well fullclaim, since it might interfere with the town plan for N3 if mandy targets me.

I am Shedinja. Anything and everything that targets me (lynches included) gets cancelled. I'm not sure, but I suspect the only way I could have died would have been rish - if only you could have seen my face when he flipped unblockable. I can't be afflicted by strike's PR, killed by dakky's vig shot, people's actions can't be redirected to me by mandy's bus, etc. Unfortunately, I also can't be investigated by william or mitch. My personal wincon is that there has to be exactly 3 people alive at the end - not exactly easy or favourable for a townie to pull off. It's unclear if being 3 people and lynching down to 2, ending the game, counts.

I would imagine that this information will change our plan a little bit. Happy to play any part in it as necessary.

@dakky, of course I remember you as unlynchable mafia. This time I am unkillable town. There's the difference. If town has no way to eliminate me as mafia, then why is the game continuing? But now mafia knows not to target me as the game continues.

fp'd by mandy
@mandy, since I can't be targeted by anything, I can't think of a reason why I would lose my unlynchability by targeting myself for a lynch (re-reading my pm, it's worded in a way that suggests the lynch itself is an action, which then gets cancelled).

Well, I think that unless you get extremely unlucky you should win at least once: either by winning with Town or by being the last remaining Townie if the two (most probably) remaining mobsters win.