Alien: The Return - Alien wins!

[Ragian]

Appears those guards who came on board really were guards. Guessing dakky shot DDS for the quick hammer. As for dakky, I guess it must have been an alien... surely there weren't 3 non-aliens with shooting powers. Anyway, must get the queen tonight. The only person I'm really leaning against is Little Witt... can't believe he'd put himself at risk for being voted out for inactivity if the AQ... he'd at least have said something, right???

Mitch thinks it is ragian and he seems like a fair candidate... but also am open to Pika & strike. Pika was my #2 choice yesterday and think he's still a solid choice.

good luck Ragain, you are going to need it with these idiots just kill all the alien sided players and I still when GASP I not quite dead yet

Try again. You're looking worse and worse. You're even contradicting yourself now.

Why would anyone shoot DDS with the consensus that he was town?

[Ragian]

Actually, since most people saw DDS as town, it made sense to kill him as he was an obvious target for the AQ, I guess...

[Ragian]

Pika saying he's the second shooter is good. We also get two lynches today, right?

Sorry for the spam...

[strike wolf]

PIka could also be an interesting choice, he seemed less active in this game compared to last where he was town, however that would be hypocritical of me at this point (I can't rule out he was absent for similar reasons as me) and it could just because he didn't want to get mislynched day 1 again. The guard claim seems solid enough and I doubt he was a likely recruit but if he recruited the guard than he might have felt it safe to claim the role for himself. Still I like the other three I mentioned more a lot better as any case on Pika seems pretty high in speculation as opposed to solid scum tells.

I'm going to dismiss the idea of an Alien SK on top of a cult recruiter. Assuming the Security officer was the same as last game and both guards worked the same (seems likely) that means that even assuming Mitch was telling the truth about the delay to his role (likely), we potentially had a situation where 3 people could have died night 1 with another being recruited. That's just way too high in potential deaths for an 8 player game. 4 people could have even been killed night 2.

@Mudpuppy: For the record, I don't think I ever got around to responding to you saying I thought your theory was plausible. I don't think your theory was plausible as you stated. I don't actually recall directly responding to that one as I had focused onto your other one. For the record, I would consider its mention as relevant to the rest of my points about you with the speculation being a distraction. Any set up where non-town is equal to town doesn't tend to balance out well. An altered set up where 2 people represented a non-town group with possible abilities that would interfere with the alien queen and different method of going about accomplishing their win con besides killing or recruiting everyone in their way was possible at the time. Of course the scene mentioned 3 so that theory would have mostly fallen apart in flavor.

[Little Witt]

Hey guys, I'm in the clear. I've been needed desperately at our hospital so I've only had time for a couple things. Fully involved now.

I do find it interesting that the night was rather quiet. The only rollclaim we saw was madmitch who was lynched. It will be interesting to see what other power rolls still exist among us.

Reading through, I'm still having a difficult time picking up on any subtle pushes for town or mafia amongst those posting a lot. Obviously the name of the game is to pressure people into claiming roles.

Now, I'm assuming dakky's power is, as it stated, a one-time only use. However, I am interested in discussing whether there was more than one town 1-shot officer and if he was foolish or gutsy enough to use it on N1. Must to discuss, and I'm looking forward to it.

[strike wolf]

PIka could also be an interesting choice, he seemed less active in this game compared to last where he was town, however that would be hypocritical of me at this point (I can't rule out he was absent for similar reasons as me) and it could just because he didn't want to get mislynched day 1 again. The guard claim seems solid enough and I doubt he was a likely recruit but if he recruited the guard than he might have felt it safe to claim the role for himself. Still I like the other three I mentioned more a lot better as any case on Pika seems pretty high in speculation as opposed to solid scum tells.

I'm going to dismiss the idea of an Alien SK on top of a cult recruiter. Assuming the Security officer was the same as last game and both guards worked the same (seems likely) that means that even assuming Mitch was telling the truth about the delay to his role (likely), we potentially had a situation where 3 people could have died night 1 with another being recruited. That's just way too high in potential deaths for an 8 player game. 4 people could have even been killed night 2.

@Mudpuppy: For the record, I don't think I ever got around to responding to you saying I thought your theory was plausible. I don't think your theory was plausible as you stated. I don't actually recall directly responding to that one as I had focused onto your other one. For the record, I would consider its mention as relevant to the rest of my points about you with the speculation being a distraction. Any set up where non-town is equal to town doesn't tend to balance out well. An altered set up where 2 people represented a non-town group with possible abilities that would interfere with the alien queen and different method of going about accomplishing their win con besides killing or recruiting everyone in their way was possible at the time. Of course the scene mentioned 3 so that theory would have mostly fallen apart in flavor.

I was way too sleepy to be posting last night. To be clear, I ultimately feel that Pikanchion isn't a good lynch choice with current info.

@little witt: Glad you're back but I'd recommend taking a second look. The scene clearly indicates that Dakky was shot by another guard and Pika has taken credit for that role and kill with no counterclaim.

[Ragian]

Care to comment on Mudpuppy, strike?

[Ragian]

Game play, not his scenarios...

[MudPuppy]

Gotta assume Pika is telling the truth since no counter claims. With a 3v2 scenario, it will be relatively easy for the aliens to sway the focus toward the crew... So, I will pledge to vote for whoever he picks in hopes that he is town and is good/lucky at guessing who the AQ is. If he chooses to vote for me, I'll still vote for the other person he picks. I would encourage others to follow his lead... We need some luck and I think he's the closest player we have to being a confirmed townie.

My guess at the moment... and it's little more than that... is that strike is AQ & ragian was his convert.

[Pikanchion]

Little Witt's earlier post shows they haven't really had a chance to follow the events of day 2 so far, I guess we're waiting on them for now, however this is a game with set deadlines for day length so obviously sooner would be better than later.

[Pikanchion]

Is it time to get a replacement? -It's pretty important for Little Witt to post and preferably claim for this game to move forwards at this point and we're running out of time.

It is perhaps worth noting we are almost all guilty of breaking rule 10 at this point...

10) If you will be unable to be online for an extended period of time, please declare yourself V/LA in the thread, and state how long you expect to be unavailable. If a player does not declare V/LA and has not posted in 48 hours, they will be prodded via PM. They then have 24 hours to post in-thread or they will be replaced out. If a person has been prodded twice and fails again to post for 48 hours, instead of being prodded they will be replaced out.

[benga]

Is it time to get a replacement? -It's pretty important for Little Witt to post and preferably claim for this game to move forwards at this point and we're running out of time.

It is perhaps worth noting we are almost all guilty of breaking rule 10 at this point...

10) If you will be unable to be online for an extended period of time, please declare yourself V/LA in the thread, and state how long you expect to be unavailable. If a player does not declare V/LA and has not posted in 48 hours, they will be prodded via PM. They then have 24 hours to post in-thread or they will be replaced out. If a person has been prodded twice and fails again to post for 48 hours, instead of being prodded they will be replaced out.

I have contacted him earlier and he said he is on it.

[Ragian]

If we modkill everybody but me, we're winning, though. GO BENGA!

[MudPuppy]

If we modkill everybody but me, we're winning, though. GO BENGA!

You're already winning without the mass modkill: Aliens have the distinct advantage at the start of D2.

[Ragian]

Nice try.

[strike wolf]

Appears those guards who came on board really were guards. Guessing dakky shot DDS for the quick hammer. As for dakky, I guess it must have been an alien... surely there weren't 3 non-aliens with shooting powers. Anyway, must get the queen tonight. The only person I'm really leaning against is Little Witt... can't believe he'd put himself at risk for being voted out for inactivity if the AQ... he'd at least have said something, right???

Mitch thinks it is ragian and he seems like a fair candidate... but also am open to Pika & strike. Pika was my #2 choice yesterday and think he's still a solid choice.

Did you actually like Mitch's case on Ragian? What did you like? Did anyone else make a point on Ragian that you liked?

Gotta assume Pika is telling the truth since no counter claims. With a 3v2 scenario, it will be relatively easy for the aliens to sway the focus toward the crew... So, I will pledge to vote for whoever he picks in hopes that he is town and is good/lucky at guessing who the AQ is. If he chooses to vote for me, I'll still vote for the other person he picks. I would encourage others to follow his lead... We need some luck and I think he's the closest player we have to being a confirmed townie.

My guess at the moment... and it's little more than that... is that strike is AQ & ragian was his convert.

If we modkill everybody but me, we're winning, though. GO BENGA!

You're already winning without the mass modkill: Aliens have the distinct advantage at the start of D2.

Yeah you keep making claims of who you think is scum without giving out any back up info. Strong FOS Mudpuppy only not voting because I want to see how your behavior today compares to yesterday.

Guess this did actually start... my first read of benga's opening scene was that it was a precursor and was to be continued as I thought we were all still locked up separately... I'm a bit slow sometimes and didn't realize that my cell popped open when the system went down.

Mitch, are you really suggesting an 8-player game with two separate cult factions with one faction already having two buddies? I find that highly unlikely and I find it more than a bit odd that you're suggesting that in an attempt to "figure this out." What are the odds you could be recast as the queen in this sequel???

Guessing it more likely we have 1 Alien Queen & two groups of crew members... one group pro-survival and the other pro-company (even if it means the sacrifice of life). So, a 1/4/3 split with the 1 as the cultist???

The only thing which is worth noticing is underlined and bolded up there... seems like he knows the exact number of the buddies of a cult AND he knows there is an alien queen.

Very suspicious indeed... a clear indication that he may have read the first post:

After the Alien Queen has been killed the research spacecraft has stopped on the research base near the Solar System for a quick recuparation...
...the uneasy filling hang in the air, something was not well. As the crew went for the exit, all doors shut down. They were locked in!!!
An oddly looking man approached them with 2 guards and said he was from The Company. He was interested in the accident that happened on their return.

Mechanics:

• Crew members get one lynch Day 1, and to balance out the Aliens, there will be two lynches every day for the rest of the game.
• Crew member power roles can be recruited, but cannot use their power.
• Any Alien who dies has their original role revealed as well. (e.g. [player], the Alien [former Science Officer])
• If the Cult Leader dies, the Cult will no longer be able to recruit. The remaining Cultists will not commit suicide upon the Cult Leader's death.
• All actions at night happen at the same time, so even if Alien Queen is shot, she can still recruit

Gah. Giant post to say very little.

I'm not going to assume the 2 guard scene from the start of the game. This is what I think is actually happening at the moment, though I'm not %100 sure, it's better to assume it's one of the four set-ups

SETUP:

Welcome to Cult C9! This is a Variable Open Setup for 8 players. There are 4 possible setups, including:
•1 Alien Queen, 5 Science Officers , 1 Psychic (see below), 1 Security Officer (see below)
•1 Alien Queen, 6 Science Officers , 1 Psychic
•1 Alien Queen, 6 Science Officers , 1 Security Officer
•1 Alien Queen, 7 Science Officers

So we may or may not have any power roles. Whatever mitch was quoting from the scene, I believe it to be just mitch being mitch.

I'm sticking with the previous set ups as they have made sense for the 8 player game we have.

Those setups do make sense. I don't think it's a coincidence that the ship has 3 new arrivals who join 5 crew members already on the ship when there were 5 survivors from the prequel. If related, then we may already know 5 of the roles: 3 vanilla crew + 1 former crew who was infected and now the new alien queen (pretty safe assumption) + 1 additional crew member (security or vanilla, depending on who was infected). Survivors from end of first alien game:

Alive
Skoffin - Science Officer
Ragian - Science Officer
Samlen - Science Officer
IcePack - Science Officer
DirtyDishSoap - Security Officer

I would normally guess that a guard might equate to a security officer but having two or three security officers in this setup would be a bit too crazy... not quite as crazy as Mitch's theory... but still too crazy for balance. So, the company man and friends could just be story line filler to get the crew back up to 8, in which case we could have any of the proposed setups if one or two the new additions has a power (security or psychic). I'd give a bit more weight to a setup with a security officer since we know one survived from the prequel.... Or, Benga may also have added a whole new town faction (Company) to compete with the current town faction (Survivors).

So...this basically ends in indecisiveness which certainly makes it look like a distraction. Again basing roles off of how they died last game even off-handedly still seems rather odd. Considering this and your other post regarding the possible company faction. I'm considering that you were either the company man or the AQ yesterday.

Next two posts from him are pretty much filler and don't need comment on.

While Strike has put me at the top of his scum list for suggesting this game might include some carryover elements of last game's setup and DDS has agreed in general with that sentiment (assuming same power role is "misleading and can be somewhat scummy")... I stand by the potential. This game is billed as a continuation of the first and while I fully recognize it would go against the grain to carry a role forward from the prequel, I think it could be a logical approach in this game... and would be little different from having a vanilla game where you know one of the roles is that of a cop. Whether you agree with the possibility of a role carry-over, I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest it's scummy as whether true or not, it has a minimal impact. I agreed that each of DDS's proposed scenario's was still possible and concluded only that there may be a slightly higher weight on a scenario that includes a security officer.

I disagree. It was potentially misleading. Misleading info is among the most dangerous town can have. Now we know mitch was a security guard now but you personally could not have known that going into your theory so the misleading part holds.

I've since fallen out of love with my two-town faction theory (survialists vs. company). I think it's still an interesting possibility but not one I think is likely. Leaning more toward one of the standard alien setups listed by DDS.

Interesting. Makes the idea that you are a company man a little less likely.

In any case, I think there is little opportunity for collusion on D1, meaning there is just one bad guy and the rest are town.

Here are my preliminary player thoughts:

DirtyDishSoap - is acting most townish at the moment... but that really doesn't mean a whole lot on D1

Ragian - a bit annoyed at his statement equating "deductive approach" to scumminess as it could be seen as an attempt to shut down meaningful discussion (granted there is usually little of that on D1 anyway). Don't think too much of his strike vote. While strike has done little to indicate being scum, Ragian's reasoning works for me.

madmitch - I feel a bit of sympathy for him with his last "why is everyone picking on me" (a theme vs. an actual quote) post where he says he's really trying and doesn't like the characterization of "mitch being mitch." But he came up with a doozy of a theory that is difficult to justify. His defense of his theory as "sensible" and his FOS on DDS, who is acting quite towny, puts mitch near the top of my list. On one hand I want to give him a second chance, on the other I'd have a hard time forgiving myself if he actually turns out to be the alien queen and I failed to vote against him.

Pikanchion - thought his claim that mitch "fished for them to roleclaim and basically suggested a mass roleclaim was the correct course of action" was a huge stretch of what really happened. He & mitch are vying for my vote at the moment. Pika will definitely get the nod if he uses that bold orange to highlight text again. .

Little Witt - Also in the top half of my scum list for lack of contribution other than a tldr request to everyone else to fill him in. Get in the game or get gone.

strike wolf - Not much of a read on him... he's an enigma. Leaning town but I expect him to convincingly appear town when scum.

dakky21 - While mostly funny, he clearly didn't read the OP closely and voted mitch as a result. He before and since has voted strike for joke voting a non-player (???) and has also suggested the two-cult theory. Not sure what to make of his play but I'm not a fan.

Shows more effort here to read people than he has day 2 thus far. viewpoint on me between here and day 2 is a bit different. Rage view point less different.

- Mud: Falls out of love with what he said earlier because some went against it...could be worth keeping in mind.

1) Never said some going against my theory was the reason I fell out of love with it... it wasn't... just thought it through a bit more.
2) DDS & strike referred to my two-town faction theory as "plausible" and "frankly not impossible" even though I think they both feel it unlikely. Point being your characterization of some going against it is not quite accurate.
3) My theory that folks "went against" was the role carry-over of the security officer from the prequel. I'm standing by this theory despite the pushback, including strike using it as the primary reason for suspecting me as scum. I don't change my theories based on popularity... though I can definitely be swayed by logic.

Don't have much of a statement for this at the current moment.

Vote madmitch

No reason given here but did list him as possible scum earlier and time was running out on the day. What made you vote Mitch over Rage or Dakky who also seemed high on your scum list?

He even avoided hammering in order not to look suspicious.

Why are you trying to dissuade a D1 lynch by suggesting whoever pulls the gallows lever is suspicious? Your comment is what is suspicious.

In thinking that through a bit more, his comment isn't suspicious. If Ragian is the AQ then he should be all for a D1 lynch of mitch or any of the other leading candidates as long as he's not one of them (and can seem pro-town by encouraging said lynch). I was in a mindset that anyone opposing a D1 lynch is not acting pro-town... but that usually applies to a game with multiple scum at the start and I didn't think through how that changes a bit for a 1 bad guy setup, which is the general consensus for this game. You still shouldn't dissuade a lynch but doing so here is more likely an indication of poor strategy more so than being a bad guy... It could also be he is pro lynch even though it came across to me like he was trying to plant a seed that the hammer is going to get some unwanted attention.

Much more talkative than yesterday.

Or... I could tell you that your interpretation is wrong...

I pretty much acknowledged that... but your comment came across as "whoever drops the hammer is gonna look mighty suspicious."

Look at my argument instead. If you don't like it, leave your vote where it is.

OK, I'll bite... your argument:

Dakky is notoriously famous for knowing when mitch is scum. He has voiced NO concerns about mitch's play whatsoever, and now he justifies his vote by calling out mitch's OMGUS. Bullshit. He OMGUS'ed DDS too. He even avoided hammering in order not to look suspicious.

I find it absurd to claim that player A is expected to know when player B is scum because of some prior games where he apparently guessed right and caught him as scum. But, if that's your argument, why do you disbelieve his claim this time around? Because he used what you consider to be a weak argument? If dakky's such a pro hunter, who are you to doubt him?

While, I get your point, it's not quite accurate to say dakky voiced NO concerns about mitch when he voted for him after laying out a specific argument... but since that argument was recanted and the vote withdrawn, I'll give you that. Still, there are plenty of other arguments out there against mitch. Dakky could easily have reiterated them in his vote post... instead he added yet another. I never thought much of OMGUS votes as a scum-tell but I can easily see how one might interpret them as scum trying to eliminate their threats. If one OMGUS vote is a tell, then shouldn't a second (DDS then me) just reinforce his suspicion of mitch??? Instead you make it sound like since he didn't call mitch out on the first one, he has no basis for calling him out on the 2nd... Maybe you've got a point but I'm not feeling it. I already stated how I feel about the hammer comment, so no convincing me with that... will keep my vote with mitch for now.

Actually I feel you were a bit inconsistent with your hammer point.

DDS, he's unarmed at least for tonight based on his claim.

Don't really care if this makes me look scummy but I'm not sure I believe his story... and even if it's true, what use is he to the crew? He can't shoot tonight and he'll likely be targeted by the AQ before he gets his power back. The only real hope of a use is if there is a watcher role to protect him (no, I'm not asking for a claim).

On the other hand, if he is the AQ, we don't have an immediate way to test his security officer claim since he's impotent and can't get a shot off tonight. We'd have to wait at least two nights without help from another power role and by then it'll be too late. Assuming there is a psychic, they could test him tonight... but I'm not sure that's much better than us just lynching mitch and testing someone else since it's highly questionable he'd ever get to shoot.

Normally, I'd be 1st to back off a D1 cop claim but I'm not so eager to do so here. Anyway, let's talk this out but I'm not at all ready to unvote mitch.

I disagreed with a decent bit of what Mud said day 1 but I more or less agree with this one.

next post is just correcting the bit about cop claim.

Don't think his last one worth repeating either. Soooooooooooo

Here's what I think:

1. It seems to me that Mud's play has changed significantly since day 1 making him a likely recruit.
2. I don't think Mud and Rage are both scum. I don't think it's beyond Mud to fake disagreement with a scummate as camo of their allegiance but I don't think that's what is happening here. As a likely recruit I don't feel Mud would be the one to cast doubt on the recruiter so him going after Rage wouldn't make sense from a recruit stand point. even if I take the angle of what I find less likely that Mud is the recruiter, I still don't know if he sells out his scummate this close to an alien win.
3. I believe Pika's claim and don't think he was recruited last night.
4. With those in play, I have to assume that Rage or Mud (whether recruiter or recruited) is scum.
5. Since only one of Rage or Mud can be scum, Little witt would be the other scum.
6. I don't think many would recruit Little Witt. I would consider it because he might just submarine through the game but I think most would be turned off by the potential of him getting lynched/modkilled for inactivity.

Therefore, pending a reread on Rage, my current scum are:

1. Little Witt-AQ
2. Mudpuppy-recruited Company Man.

As we need to get today right I won't be voting yet.

[Pikanchion]

Are you also prepared to follow my choice of lynch Ragian?

[MudPuppy]

Did you actually like Mitch's case on Ragian? What did you like? Did anyone else make a point on Ragian that you liked?

Didn't like Mitch's case on anything... just noting it since he's confirmed town.
No arguments made against Ragian have swayed me much... I did think his attack on me at start of D2 was just a bit over the top to the point that the idea ran through my head that he may have been the recruit trying to draw attention away from the AQ, since it matters little if we get the recruit but not the recruiter... but really I'm pretty much in the dark about who is scum and am instead going to hope Pika is town & follow his lead. There is a definite chance that Pika was the gunman AND was recruited (and think he would have made a good candidate for recruit) which makes him a bit of risk to follow... Heck, he could even be the AQ and have recruited the gunman but is acting like the gunman in order to lessen his appearance as the AQ (since there wouldn't be a valid counter-claim). So, just crossing my fingers he's human and chooses right when he votes.

Vote madmitch

No reason given here but did list him as possible scum earlier and time was running out on the day. What made you vote Mitch over Rage or Dakky who also seemed high on your scum list?

Mitch & Pika were my top two... I chose Mitch mostly because Mitch himself put a dent in my theory that Pika invented the idea that Mitch was asking for a mass role claim... and slightly because Pika's response to my threat of voting him out if he used that orange bold text again made me laugh a bit.

[strike wolf]

Of course you didn't like specific points from mitch about Rage. He wasn't suspicious of Rage, I was and you still are. Mitchs contribution to believing Rage was a good candidate was because Rage believed mitch to be town and mitch wasn't very commitall on that point.

[MudPuppy]

Of course you didn't like specific points from mitch about Rage. He wasn't suspicious of Rage, I was and you still are.

Yep, you're right... I somehow misread mitch's last post to be that he felt ragian was an alien when he was actually stating ragian is the only non-idiot member of town remaining. Thanks for setting me straight as it now makes me feel that much more comfortable with my suspicion of Ragian.

Actually my guess is that ragian was the recruit and, if that is that case, shouldn't be the primary target for a lynch... but I'm not at all confident that's the case... leaving that call up to Pika.

[Ragian]

Are you also prepared to follow my choice of lynch Ragian?

Why lynch Ragian?

I don't like Mudpuppy floating the idea of Pika either being a converted gunman (i.e. alien now) or the AQ having converted a gunman following it up by stating he'll follow Pika's lead. Neither do I like that it took Strike's million dollar post to make Mudpuppy understand that Mitch was saluting me, not incriminating me.

If forced to vote now, I'd be voting Mudpuppy and Little Witt. However, Pika's statement above raises an eyebrow here (probably because it's about me). I haven't seen the argument. Granted, I'm hung over, but I still haven't seen the argument.

...I'm less sceptical of Strike at this point...

[Pikanchion]

I was asking if you were prepared to follow who I went with lynching, not if the other two were up for lynching you...

[Ragian]

Oh, right. I misunderstood, then. No, I'm not laying everything in your hands. I don't know if you've been converted.

[benga]

Little Wit assked for replacement, I will prolong the day for the sub to catch up.

[Ragian]

I'll keep eating crisps, then.