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Version 11.6 FRANCE 2.1

Maps that may be nearing the end of production. Finalize maps here, while testing.

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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby killboy108 on Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:35 am

I'm sure people would have pointed this out, but I don't have time to read all the notes....

The Auto-deploys don't work.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby Gilligan on Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:59 am

killboy108 wrote:I'm sure people would have pointed this out, but I don't have time to read all the notes....

The Auto-deploys don't work.


Code: Select all
<territory>
<name>Wallonie</name>
<borders>
<border>Nord</border>
</borders>
<bombardments>
<bombardment>Paris</bombardment>
</bombardments>
<coordinates>
<smallx>463</smallx>
<smally>63</smally>
<largex>620</largex>
<largey>75</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>3</neutral>
<bonus>1</bonus>
</territory>
<territory>
<name>Jura Suisse</name>
<borders>
<border>Jura</border>
</borders>
<bombardments>
<bombardment>Paris</bombardment>
</bombardments>
<coordinates>
<smallx>609</smallx>
<smally>365</smally>
<largex>817</largex>
<largey>483</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>3</neutral>
<bonus>1</bonus>
</territory>
<territory>
<name>Monaco</name>
<borders>
<border>Alpes-Maritimes</border>
</borders>
<bombardments>
<bombardment>Paris</bombardment>
</bombardments>
<coordinates>
<smallx>651</smallx>
<smally>528</smally>
<largex>869</largex>
<largey>708</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>3</neutral>
<bonus>1</bonus>
</territory>
<territory>
<name>Catalogne</name>
<borders>
<border>Pyrénées-Orientales</border>
</borders>
<bombardments>
<bombardment>Paris</bombardment>
</bombardments>
<coordinates>
<smallx>441</smallx>
<smally>684</smally>
<largex>579</largex>
<largey>912</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>3</neutral>
<bonus>1</bonus>
</territory>
<territory>
<name>Pays-Basque</name>
<borders>
<border>Pyrénées-Atlantiques</border>
</borders>
<bombardments>
<bombardment>Paris</bombardment>
</bombardments>
<coordinates>
<smallx>183</smallx>
<smally>676</smally>
<largex>240</largex>
<largey>903</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>3</neutral>
<bonus>1</bonus>
</territory>


all 5 territories are coded to have an auto of 1. i can't look at your games because they are fog.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:41 am

killboy108 wrote:I'm sure people would have pointed this out, but I don't have time to read all the notes....

The Auto-deploys don't work.


Never see this problem. Wich game ?
Last edited by Lancelot du Lac on Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:43 am

The first poll is finished.

Result :
    Yes 14 votes 33%
    No 25 votes 58%
    no opinions 4 votes 9%
    other (s) 0 vote
    total 43 votes
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Re: Version 11.5.1 [ [16 October 2013 ] FRANCE 2.1

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:48 am

The seconde poll is open ;)

Lancelot du Lac wrote:Hello to everyone,

Thank you for your feedback.

Here is a series of four polls. The first topic will be updated for each new poll.

Polls:
1) The suburbs 3 and 4 must be connected.
You can vote from April 15 to April 20.

2) Create a Connection Between Paris and suburbs 4.
You can vote from 21 April to 25 April.

3) Number of neutral troops on Paris's will be reduced to 7 troops
You can vote from April 26 to April 30.

4) Foreign claims can be attacked This from adjacent territory
You can vote from 1 May to 10 May

Following these polls, I will change the graphics and XML.

Thank you to you to play the game ;)
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby Gilligan on Mon Apr 21, 2014 6:07 pm

for number 3 i would rephrase your poll.

3) Number of neutral troops on Paris's will be reduced
a) to 5
b) to 7
c) stay at 10

reason being, i think it should be lowered, but i also think 7 is too much.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby P*Funk! on Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:17 am

So far, so good! There appears to be a lot of subtlety and nuance built into the game that reflects the historical, geographic and social diversity that is France. The game that I am presently playing is a “Zombie” game that is leaving troops stacked up dead like cords of wood; as a result it sometimes plays like a “Bubonic Plague France” game might be.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby BoganGod on Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:39 am

Voted no, quirks and stilted access are reflective of a city that has existed for a long time, and outgrown its initial boundaries multiple times.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby Mishalex on Wed Apr 23, 2014 5:54 am

Gilligan wrote:for number 3 i would rephrase your poll.

3) Number of neutral troops on Paris's will be reduced
a) to 5
b) to 7
c) stay at 10

reason being, i think it should be lowered, but i also think 7 is too much.

If the connection between Paris and the suburb 4 is done, maybe we don't need to reduce the game objective no ? It will be easier to take it with that connection ! Just a guess...
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby Chica Cruel on Wed Apr 23, 2014 6:38 am

There are many maps that sorely need revision. France 2.1 is not one of them. The proposed changes will dumb down the map and make it easier--not better--to succeed. Players who prefer to minimize the effort, skill, and experience to enjoy the map, not just play it, are likely frustrated by their inability to understand what is needed to win a France 2.1 game.

Having had the opportunity to visit the city and read its history, I appreciate the complexities involved in the approach to the city and suburbs. these complexities mirror the city itself. Making this simpler will suck out much of the fun of playing the map.

For those who want "simple", I suggest you create your own map--someting like Mayberry. Four regions with Andy's sheriff's office, Floyd's barbar shop, Wally's filling station, and back home with Aunt Bea. yes, that simple. It should take you two rounds to finish the game. Satisfied?
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby Donelladan on Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:02 am

I like that you are trying to get a lot of opinion by making a poll.
But should you always follow the result of the poll ? :-s

I think you have to consider the arguments too.
That there is no connection offer a nice way to block the objective by taking Seine et Marne. It add complexity.

What is the advantage of connecting suburb 4 and paris? I may have missed some posts, but I don't understand in which way it improves the map to make this connection.

Btw 21 pro, 16 contra, 6 white, the majority is not so clear in favor. Give more time to discussion.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby Mishalex on Wed Apr 23, 2014 10:50 am

In Trench, if the drop are up north, it's clearly a disadvantage...
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby Donelladan on Wed Apr 23, 2014 11:52 am

Assuming team game or 1vs1, if your drop is mainly in north, you are lucky.
You'll take bonus in north while you're opponent take bonus in south, so it means you'll be super close of paris with your main strength ! At least having suburb 4 not connected to paris balance a bit the game.
So I think considering trench reinforce the fact that it shouldn't be connected.

This btw has already been mentionned before, if you develop in the south east or west of France you're very far from Paris. But this is true geographically speaking so you can't but the objectif in the middle of the map. Therefore no connection between suburb 4 and Paris is actually perfect.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 1

Postby JPcelticfc on Wed Apr 23, 2014 3:07 pm

I voted yes nut reading the above argument I have changed my mind.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 3

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Mon Apr 28, 2014 7:25 am

The first poll is finished.

Result :

Yes 27 votes 48%
No 22 votes 39%
no opinions 6 votes 11%
other (s) 1 vote
total 56 votes
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 3

Postby Lancelot du Lac on Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:48 am

And another poll here, for 10 days... Can you explain your point of view by posting please ?
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 3

Postby Mishalex on Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:50 am

10 if we create a bridge between Paris and the suburb 4, 7 if not... Otherwise, it's too easy to take the winning conditions...
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 3

Postby Donelladan on Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:49 am

I don't think the number of neutral matter much. 10 or 7 is same. 4 seems to few.

I think it doesn't matter because if you have enough troops to take objectif AND hold it until your next turn, 10 or 7 will probably not change anything to you.

4 may allow people to go quikly to the objectif so in multiplayer fog games I find it would make game not so cool if someone start next to paris with 2/3 regions take it and win.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 3

Postby jseal on Fri May 02, 2014 1:53 pm

Hey on France map. it is a great map and the victory conditions work. what is not clear is that it says regional "claims" when it should be claim. also, we were not sure how the foreign claimes work. since they have arrows pointing to a region, do you need to OWN the region the claim seems to be linked to when you take the claim to satisfy thje victory conditions? that is not explained and needs to be somewhere.

otherwise, i think the rules and game stacks up. we played it fog trench with zombie and could make it work, it probably works better in other conditions but i could find no major falws and actually really liked the map. likely to becoem a favorite!
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 3

Postby Dukasaur on Thu May 08, 2014 10:18 pm

I'm sorry, I reject the whole premise of these changes.

Paris should not be a victory condition. Paris should give some kind of special multiplier bonus like the ships do in South Africa 1885.
Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
Balance personal rights with social duties.
Prize truth — beauty — love — seeking harmony with the infinite.
Be not a cancer on the earth — Leave room for nature — Leave room for nature.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 3

Postby Mishalex on Mon May 12, 2014 7:18 am

Thanks for the advice... I think the changes would not be done except one : let the nearest territories attacks the foreign claim... This is the only changes we have to make IMO
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 3

Postby GrudgeBringer_ on Tue May 13, 2014 6:24 pm

Hi Guys,

I am NOT in any way a designer of any sort, just just take my comments as a player. I actually LIKE the map. The colors could be a little less pastel so they contrast some (a lot of colorblind, and vison impaired people on here...not blind, just have trouble telling one region from another. Eurasia is a good example of a map that is easy on the eyes and no one I have talded to has probles.

2. With all the extras put in it, a certain strategy will have to be used to win and if you don't use Manual you can be hosed very quickly. We are testing a 3 man team with 3 teams. Auto/fog/parachute (seems the only reasonable reinforcement option)/Flat Rate. We are are about turn 3 and we got pretty spread out on our team. But that is not a problem as we are used to it. The Problem is with all the little 'Extra's' and using Auto, we are mostly placed on the bottom of the map, we actually can NOT see any of the regions around Paris which means they are occupied by the other teams. That in itself may not be so bad, but with the optional winning scenario's, it is turn 3 and for all intents and purposes we are dead.

Take some of those out, add some mountians/streams/ other naturel barriers (I REALLY like the impassable river running through that one region).

I know detail is really important to you guys, but most of us yanks know the general outline of france, a few of the provinces and can understand liberties may need to be take to even out the board.

Thanks,

GrudgeBringer
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 3

Postby CMetternich on Fri May 16, 2014 1:15 pm

Game 14375035

After round 4 I already was the eventual winner of this game, because I had the south under my control. The southern regions are too valuable, you virtually can't win if you are placed in the north.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 3

Postby iAmCaffeine on Sat May 17, 2014 5:53 am

That's not true at all.
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Re: Version 11.5.1 FRANCE 2.1 - Poll 3

Postby CMetternich on Sat May 17, 2014 12:04 pm

iAmCaffeine wrote:That's not true at all.


It is. You are invited to play with me. I get the southern regions and inevitably I will beat you 9 out of 10 times. (With 1 margin of error as I might miss a round ;) )

There is just no real balance when all the southern regions (except Corsica) are so valuable, this is -in my opinion- the major weakness of this map.

Dukasaur made an interesting suggestion as well, reduce the troops in Paris, make it a normal region and you have a perfect map.
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