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The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby degaston on Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:02 pm

Gilligan wrote:You cannot go by the panels/BOB, because neither of them understand collection bonuses. On the start of your turn, it should be correct.


It seems to work fine for Supermax.
(Combined Overview tab and Stats tab)
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Notice how the Troops Due is the same for both tabs.

Here's Temple of Jinn:
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Notice how the Troops Due is different? I'll see on my next turn which amount I get, but if it can show up correctly for Supermax, it should also be able to work for Temple of Jinn.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Gilligan on Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:07 pm

Supermax came before collection bonuses, so it's coded differently than this map is. When I say collection bonuses, I mean an update to the XML - not "hold X, get Y, hold X+1, get Z" kind of bonuses.

If you look at the top panel that you showed, this is correct. On your next turn, you'll get 14 troops (barring the bonuses stay).

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The bottom one is not.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby zimmah on Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:00 pm

Gilligan wrote:
degaston wrote:I believe I've found an XML bug:
14129401
Image
I have 8 Air Gems, so shouldn't my bonus be 5, not 3?


You cannot go by the panels/BOB, because neither of them understand collection bonuses. On the start of your turn, it should be correct.


I can confirm this, i was very close to reporting this as a bug as well, but i changed my mind on posting about it because i realized it was a problem of BOB, and i did get my bonus anyway.

So to be clear, it's not a bug in the XML, it's just that BOB does not recognize the new bonus system.

The thing is supermax uses the old system, while jinn uses the new system. So you can't compare them.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Blakkrose on Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:57 am

degaston wrote:I believe I've found an XML bug:
14129401
Image
I have 8 Air Gems, so shouldn't my bonus be 5, not 3?

Efreet is not a gem :)

degaston wrote:1. It's just cosmetic, but if you removed the 'g' from all of the gem territories, (Fg01 becomes F01, etc.) it would result in 92 fewer letters covering the map. I think it would look quite a bit better.

Good idea

degaston wrote:3. I'll need to play it more, but it seems like the crystals do not have enough power. I've heard that the new transformation code can do conditional autodeploys, so what if when you hold a crystal, you get a +1 deploy on all of the matching gems you hold?

interesting...
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby degaston on Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:06 am

Blakkrose wrote:Efreet is not a gem :)

I didn't mention Efreet? Though I understand what Gilligan is talking about. Anyone know if this has this been reported as a web site bug?

No opinion on my number 2 suggestion?
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Gilligan on Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:17 am

degaston wrote:
Blakkrose wrote:Efreet is not a gem :)

I didn't mention Efreet? Though I understand what Gilligan is talking about. Anyone know if this has this been reported as a web site bug?


Yeah, I did a few months ago...

viewtopic.php?f=506&t=200339
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Donelladan on Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:20 am

A +1 auto for all the gems of the same color you have seems a huge bonus to me.
I think a simple +1 auto on the crystal would do better.

I have played the maps in polymorphic mainly so far, and I reckon I never feel the need to go to the crystals. But I think they are more interesting in multiplayer game maybe.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Gilligan on Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:53 pm

I think you should consider having all teleporters attack each other. I'm finding that it can be really hard to get where you want to be (like getting to Jinn's crystal...you have to have access to T3. what if you're on the way opposite side of the map?)
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Blakkrose on Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:15 am

Gilligan wrote:I think you should consider having all teleporters attack each other. I'm finding that it can be really hard to get where you want to be (like getting to Jinn's crystal...you have to have access to T3. what if you're on the way opposite side of the map?)

The goal of teleports is to close the gap.
The teleports allow you to travel quickly across the map.
To get to the temple you have to follow the right path.

If you will be so many to agree with Gilligan then I'll do as you like.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby WILLIAMS5232 on Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:39 pm

what if a teammate ( polymorphic or regular team game ) takes the key. can another teammate open the gate?
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Gilligan on Sun Mar 30, 2014 6:45 pm

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:what if a teammate ( polymorphic or regular team game ) takes the key. can another teammate open the gate?


no, it's no different than any other map with conditional borders.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby WILLIAMS5232 on Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:02 pm

Gilligan wrote:
WILLIAMS5232 wrote:what if a teammate ( polymorphic or regular team game ) takes the key. can another teammate open the gate?


no, it's no different than any other map with conditional borders.


ok, so to be clear, you are saying if green takes the key, then blue can't take the gate in a trips game? also, is the attack made from the key? or is it made from the actual visual border of the gate?

i guess this is my first time playing a map with a border like this.... unless i'm mistaken.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Gilligan on Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:11 pm

WILLIAMS5232 wrote:
Gilligan wrote:
WILLIAMS5232 wrote:what if a teammate ( polymorphic or regular team game ) takes the key. can another teammate open the gate?


no, it's no different than any other map with conditional borders.


ok, so to be clear, you are saying if green takes the key, then blue can't take the gate in a trips game? also, is the attack made from the key? or is it made from the actual visual border of the gate?

i guess this is my first time playing a map with a border like this.... unless i'm mistaken.


Correct. If green has the key, blue cannot take the gate.

The attack isn't made from the key - it's made by the visual border on the gate.

A few other maps with conditional borders include Labyrinth, Spanish Armada and Krazy Kingdoms
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby WILLIAMS5232 on Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:26 pm

Gilligan wrote:
WILLIAMS5232 wrote:
Gilligan wrote:
WILLIAMS5232 wrote:what if a teammate ( polymorphic or regular team game ) takes the key. can another teammate open the gate?


no, it's no different than any other map with conditional borders.


ok, so to be clear, you are saying if green takes the key, then blue can't take the gate in a trips game? also, is the attack made from the key? or is it made from the actual visual border of the gate?

i guess this is my first time playing a map with a border like this.... unless i'm mistaken.


Correct. If green has the key, blue cannot take the gate.

The attack isn't made from the key - it's made by the visual border on the gate.

A few other maps with conditional borders include Labyrinth, Spanish Armada and Krazy Kingdoms



ok thanks, no confusion now. happy mapping.

on another note, i kind of like the portals where they are. but i've only played this map .5 times so that's not a good opinion i'll admit.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby eddie2 on Mon Apr 07, 2014 12:02 pm

is there going to be more ghouls added. there is only 1 which therefore makes the crystals redundant in multi player games. and general games as well come to think of it. you need the ghoul to get the palace but also the crystal so whoever controls the bottom right controls the game.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Gilligan on Mon Apr 07, 2014 1:33 pm

eddie2 wrote:is there going to be more ghouls added. there is only 1 which therefore makes the crystals redundant in multi player games. and general games as well come to think of it. you need the ghoul to get the palace but also the crystal so whoever controls the bottom right controls the game.


i don't think this is true. I don't think the crystals are that important. One crystal can bombard less than a quarter of the map, and that is *not* enough to eliminate someone.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Donelladan on Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:43 pm

I love the map. Very good job Blakkrose.
I have been playing it in polymorphic triples and quad. It is a nice map for team game. Relatively fast but need some strategy at the beginning.
I also played it escalating 8 players, works very well. Was surprised that Temple of Jinn didn't bombard everything on the map though, didn't realize teleports, monsters and crystals were not "bombardable". But that's what make it interesting to play new maps.

Again, very nice map. Congrats =D> =D> =D>
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Gilligan on Mon Apr 07, 2014 3:59 pm

Donelladan wrote:I love the map. Very good job Blakkrose.
I have been playing it in polymorphic triples and quad. It is a nice map for team game. Relatively fast but need some strategy at the beginning.
I also played it escalating 8 players, works very well. Was surprised that Temple of Jinn didn't bombard everything on the map though, didn't realize teleports, monsters and crystals were not "bombardable". But that's what make it interesting to play new maps.

Again, very nice map. Congrats =D> =D> =D>


This, exactly, is what I think makes the map so great. You can't just sit by the key and wait to enter the temple and bombard the whole map. You HAVE to have presence elsewhere to win, because you can't just win by entering the temple and bombarding everything.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby degaston on Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:28 pm

I'm almost done with a 6 player flat rate game. I like the concept, but I think the bonus structure needs some work.

There seems to be almost a disincentive to take the crystals. You don't get any additional bonus for having them, and you lose troops if you leave them there. If you use it to bombard an enemy's troops, you don't get any additional bonus, and your opponent doesn't really have to bother taking them back. What's more, if you want to take over his region, then you'll just have to defeat the same territories twice.

What if the bonuses were given out based on how many complete sets of four you had? That way, the crystal bombardment would completely break your opponents bonuses. Or maybe you get 3 for each set of 4, and 1 for each set of 3?

Also, I think it might be more interesting if monsters got a +3 autodeploy instead of a bonus.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Blakkrose on Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:34 am

degaston wrote:I'm almost done with a 6 player flat rate game. I like the concept, but I think the bonus structure needs some work.

There seems to be almost a disincentive to take the crystals. You don't get any additional bonus for having them, and you lose troops if you leave them there. If you use it to bombard an enemy's troops, you don't get any additional bonus, and your opponent doesn't really have to bother taking them back. What's more, if you want to take over his region, then you'll just have to defeat the same territories twice.

What if the bonuses were given out based on how many complete sets of four you had? That way, the crystal bombardment would completely break your opponents bonuses. Or maybe you get 3 for each set of 4, and 1 for each set of 3?

Also, I think it might be more interesting if monsters got a +3 autodeploy instead of a bonus.


Interesting. Who agree with degaston?
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Donelladan on Fri Apr 11, 2014 8:41 am

+3 autodeploy for monster would be definitely too high imo. +1 could be enough.
I am also of an idea that currently crystals are rather useless.
What about having water crystal give you +1 for each 2 water gems you have? and same for all crystals.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby WILLIAMS5232 on Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:43 pm

i like the monster auto deploy. if +3 is too much, +1 is not enough. make it +2 and i'm happy.
i also considered the cyrystals to be not much worth going for. they may be more value if they could one-way assualt.

( i've only played one game on the map, so my opinion may not be very expensive, but i do like the map )
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby Gilligan on Mon Apr 14, 2014 8:09 pm

what if you got a bonus for holding an entire chamber? something considerable, like +5 or +6.
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby random21 on Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:55 pm

hey, playing this map in 1 or 2 test games.

haven't read all comments, but some concerns:

starting points are random and not exactly balanced? you can start adjacent to an opponent for 1 i believe, also, you can start with 1 neutral in territory in between 2 players. So red has 3, and to attack yellow 3, he just need to go through 1 neutral, it's awfully close in my opinion. Perhaps something along more fixed starting points that is separated or something?

I am playing dubs, and it seems a constricted maps. I imagine people have played it trips, or quads, but that would seem to be worse to me.

Also, it seems pathing is bad… but I'm not sure. I mean getting from one spot to another is so hard, I think you need to make the map maybe 30 territories bigger, and have more tele porters? I saw in recent suggestion to connect all tele porters… perhaps that is way to go not sure.

But I mean, the bottom of map has 5/6 tele porters.


So I guess my concerns are how you move across the map, getting from top to bottom for instance, or in between various places. Also, the starting locations. I played 2 dubs games in both, I got only 1 territory in the top half of the map. It was quickly taken out, and I had therefore lost all map presence in top half of map. So I see no real reason to keep playing it knowing the drop is so risky, and then you will start so close to other players. Espec for fog for instance. In those 2 dubs games, team got 1/2 territories in top, and team mates got 2 or more I believe. In sunny or fog, just to easy for things to randomly occur.

I do like the general idea of bonuses, 4 gems. But then on drop some people start with 3/4 territories being same gem, so start with 3 earth and it is soo easy to get bonus. Whereas other times i see teams start with 2, 1, 1 of bonuses, and expanding to 4 bonus is harder. Is it possible to give specific starting point locations? Maybe make the map larger, more territories, and say let each player start with max of 2 of 1 gem type on drop, or 1 of each? Not sure.

Anyways, at the moment I would say my impression of the map is quite good. You saw the map design elsewhere? Adapted it? Gave it your bonus style? Monsters. Quite good, but parts of the map like luck of the drop… how close, what gems you get, and pathing, I believe to be rather unbalanced.

Anyways, cheers
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Re: The Temple of Jinn [03/02/2014] V9m pg 15

Postby swimmerdude99 on Fri May 09, 2014 3:16 pm

I think that for Standard escalating at least it is gonna become pretty stagnant. I wanted to try bombarded from fire crystal but I can't get to Ghul. I was thinking... maybe allow bombarding from the crystal without the Ghul and it switches to being able to attack if you hold Ghul?
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