Do athiests celebrate christmas?

by **Jenos Ridan** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:01 am

Not an Atheist, used to be though, for five years now I've tried to maintain a religious element to the holiday.

For course they do.

by **Jenos Ridan** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:05 am

bradleybadly wrote:
nagerous wrote:whats an athiest?

An agnostic on steroids

Someone who is one small logical deduction from being a Nihilist.

by **btownmeggy** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:24 am

Aidan Kerr wrote:
johnnyrotten wrote:I'm an atheist but I celebrate it purely for the materialistic aspect.

same

I don't celebrate it for the materialistic aspect so much as for the aesthetic aspect. ...And, like Snorri, because it's a family tradition and I love my families.

I love Christmas carols. My favorite is "God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen" which actually has the word "SATAN" in it. I love fairy lights and combinations of red and green or blue and silver. For the first time in about 10 years, last Christmas Eve I went to a religious service. It was aesthetically pleasing if philosophically discomforting.

by **muy_thaiguy** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:28 am

Sounds like a personal issue there, meggy.

by **btownmeggy** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:30 am

muy_thaiguy wrote:Sounds like a personal issue there, meggy.

How so?

by **muy_thaiguy** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:32 am

btownmeggy wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:Sounds like a personal issue there, meggy.

How so?

It was aesthetically pleasing if philosophically discomforting.

That's how.

by **btownmeggy** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:44 am

muy_thaiguy wrote:
btownmeggy wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:Sounds like a personal issue there, meggy.

How so?

It was aesthetically pleasing if philosophically discomforting.
That's how.

Oh.

It is, though.

I don't mean personal offense, but every religious sermon I've ever experienced (100s... 1000s? vastly and diversely Christian with a sprinkling of Judaism thrown in) has been largely (yes, thankfully, not entirely) based on ignorances and fears, including at poor little trying-to-be-good Christmas. That's discomforting, considering religion's great influence on most of Earth's peoples.

by **muy_thaiguy** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:49 am

It really depends on the community and individuals more then anything.

by **Jenos Ridan** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:49 am

It was never ment to make you feel that way, it is supposed to bring you closer to God. That is what the big guys wants, a personal, father-to-child relationship with each of his children.

by **btownmeggy** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:54 am

Jenos Ridan wrote:It was never ment to make you feel that way, it is supposed to bring you closer to God. That is what the big guys wants, a personal, father-to-child relationship with each of his children.

What sort of sicko father would condemn ANY of his children--no matter their behavior--to eternal, fiery damnation??

by **btownmeggy** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:55 am

muy_thaiguy wrote:It really depends on the community and individuals more then anything.

Yes, I imagine that's true.

by **muy_thaiguy** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 12:58 am

btownmeggy wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:It was never ment to make you feel that way, it is supposed to bring you closer to God. That is what the big guys wants, a personal, father-to-child relationship with each of his children.

What sort of sicko father would condemn ANY of his children--no matter their behavior--to eternal, fiery damnation??

When they willingly turn their back to Him, they do it of their own accord, not His. People are free to choose to believe in Him or not, but in not believing, they condemn themselves.

by **DaGip** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:02 am

Norse wrote:The truth!!

<mod edit>

by **muy_thaiguy** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:02 am

by **btownmeggy** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:05 am

muy_thaiguy wrote:
btownmeggy wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:It was never ment to make you feel that way, it is supposed to bring you closer to God. That is what the big guys wants, a personal, father-to-child relationship with each of his children.

What sort of sicko father would condemn ANY of his children--no matter their behavior--to eternal, fiery damnation??

When they willingly turn their back to Him, they do it of their own accord, not His. People are free to choose to believe in Him or not, but in not believing, they condemn themselves.

So, humans have their own accord. But what is His? Sadism?

by **Jenos Ridan** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:15 am

btownmeggy wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:
btownmeggy wrote:
What sort of sicko father would condemn ANY of his children--no matter their behavior--to eternal, fiery damnation??

When they willingly turn their back to Him, they do it of their own accord, not His. People are free to choose to believe in Him or not, but in not believing, they condemn themselves.

So, humans have their own accord. But what is His? Sadism?

He gave us Freedom of Will; we could no more love Him out of duty than one could breathe phosgene gas. He wants us to make the next move, having done all the the work ("It is done" He said). The ball is in your court.

by **btownmeggy** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:27 am

Jenos Ridan wrote:He gave us Freedom of Will; we could no more love Him out of duty than one could breathe phosgene gas. He wants us to make the next move, having done all the the work ("It is done" He said). The ball is in your court.

But humans were made in His image? Who among us but sociopaths would choose to torture our own children?

Would you throw your child into a furnace? You'd banish your child forever from your sight simply because it did not obey your every word?

If such a god exists, I want nothing to do with it. It stands contrary to everything GOOD and virtuous within me.

by **Jenos Ridan** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:55 am

btownmeggy wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:He gave us Freedom of Will; we could no more love Him out of duty than one could breathe phosgene gas. He wants us to make the next move, having done all the the work ("It is done" He said). The ball is in your court.

But humans were made in His image? Who among us but sociopaths would choose to torture our own children?

Would you throw your child into a furnace? You'd banish your child forever from your sight simply because it did not obey your every word?

If such a god exists, I want nothing to do with it. It stands contrary to everything GOOD and virtuous within me.

Wow.

So, you would argue that their is no such thing as freedom of will while practicing it right now? Mankind as a whole turned our backs on God, not the other way as you suggest. Made in His likeness, yes. Made with no will of our own, no.

by **Balsiefen** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 4:41 am

I celebrate christmas, but seeing as it derives its roots from dead pagan religions rather than christianity, I do not see it as controdictory as such. I celebrate it to make the usually depressing midwinter the most enjoyable time of the year. Commercialism is not a bad thing if you have it under control, and keeping people happy at midwinter, the hardest part of the year has, under all its different names, always been the focus of Christmas.

by **Neutrino** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:24 am

Commence thread derailment.

Jenos Ridan wrote:
Wow.

So, you would argue that their is no such thing as freedom of will while practicing it right now? Mankind as a whole turned our backs on God, not the other way as you suggest. Made in His likeness, yes. Made with no will of our own, no.

I think you're missing the point slightly. The point's not that God punishes humanity on Earth, but that God's major occupation is damning everyone who had the bad luck to be born in the non-Christian parts of the world to hell for all eternity. Loosely analogous to shooting everyone who fails to roll a 6.

Not the most well-balanced behaveour, you know?

by **Skittles!** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 5:36 am

Balsiefen wrote:I celebrate christmas, but seeing as it derives its roots from dead pagan religions rather than christianity, I do not see it as controdictory as such. I celebrate it to make the usually depressing midwinter the most enjoyable time of the year. Commercialism is not a bad thing if you have it under control, and keeping people happy at midwinter, the hardest part of the year has, under all its different names, always been the focus of Christmas.

You seem to be forgetting that the other half of the world (What you know as the Southern Hemisphere) is currently in Summer when Christmas is happening.

by **mr. incrediball** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:17 am

Skittles! wrote:
Balsiefen wrote:I celebrate christmas, but seeing as it derives its roots from dead pagan religions rather than christianity, I do not see it as controdictory as such. I celebrate it to make the usually depressing midwinter the most enjoyable time of the year. Commercialism is not a bad thing if you have it under control, and keeping people happy at midwinter, the hardest part of the year has, under all its different names, always been the focus of Christmas.

You seem to be forgetting that the other half of the world (What you know as the Southern Hemisphere) is currently in Summer when Christmas is happening.

doesn't matter. by the time christmas reached the southern hemisphere, it was already made into a "christian" celebration.

and yes, i celebrate christmas. a) because of the christians in my family and b) who can say no to free stuff?

by **comic boy** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:59 am

muy_thaiguy wrote:
comic boy wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:Not an Atheist, so I celebrate it Religiously.

Meaning you avoid all the commercialism and non religious aspects that have become a traditional part of Christmas, presents for example

We do give presents, but my family has been doing it for generations. Long before it ever became commercialized. And also considering that my family is heavily Roman Catholic, we also go to Midnight Mass (of which, I have helped out on a couple occasions).

Believe it or not I have also been to a couple of Midnight Masses, purely because its a colourful and happy occasion. My father advised me never to be dogmatic in the case of religion, he once refused to be a Godparent to a friend's son ( because of the religious overtones ) and bitterly regretted it afterwards.

by **Snorri1234** on Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:49 am

Jenos Ridan wrote:Wow.

So, you would argue that their is no such thing as freedom of will while practicing it right now? Mankind as a whole turned our backs on God, not the other way as you suggest. Made in His likeness, yes. Made with no will of our own, no.

Would you torture your children for eternity solely for turning their back on you? Because that is Meggy's point.
If God is all-powerful and all that, why would he let his children that he loves be tortured? For eternity no less.