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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby PLAYER57832 on Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:26 pm

JPcelticfc wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
JPcelticfc wrote:Not sure if this fits in the same timeframe, but I remember some scientists believed that the earth was getting cooler due to the satelillites recordings. This was because with each orbit the satelillite moved away from the earth much like the moon does giving the illusion of a cooling earth. Perhaps that would explain though my gut instinct tells me that was the early 90's. Perhaps some1 would care to elaborate further. Though its proof that issues such as this have been ironed out and today's data is much more reliable.

I think it also had to do with reversing the jet stream, which has been predicted. That would potentially cause a mini-Ice age in Europe, even while the overall temperature is going up.


Nope I was stating the reason in the past that people believed there was a cooling. I know about the jet stream potentially shutting down because of the extra fresh water. Its what makes Ireland mild!! I dont really fancy enduring Moscow temperatures during the winter lol

Due to fresh water? That is new to me, I was referring to the idea that even a one degree change in the temperature of the At lantic could reveverse the Jet stream.. but I would have to research whether that is still thought likely or not.

Here in the US, a bigger fear is the increased hurricane activity. Some say we may already be seeing that, but its hard to say if the increase is specifically due to global temperature changes or not.
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby JPcelticfc on Mon Aug 01, 2011 2:36 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
JPcelticfc wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
JPcelticfc wrote:Not sure if this fits in the same timeframe, but I remember some scientists believed that the earth was getting cooler due to the satelillites recordings. This was because with each orbit the satelillite moved away from the earth much like the moon does giving the illusion of a cooling earth. Perhaps that would explain though my gut instinct tells me that was the early 90's. Perhaps some1 would care to elaborate further. Though its proof that issues such as this have been ironed out and today's data is much more reliable.

I think it also had to do with reversing the jet stream, which has been predicted. That would potentially cause a mini-Ice age in Europe, even while the overall temperature is going up.


Nope I was stating the reason in the past that people believed there was a cooling. I know about the jet stream potentially shutting down because of the extra fresh water. Its what makes Ireland mild!! I dont really fancy enduring Moscow temperatures during the winter lol

Deu to fresh water? That is new to me, I was referring to the idea that even a one degree change in the temperature of the At lantic could reveverse the Jet stream.. but I would have to research whether that is still thought likely or not.

Here in the US, a bigger fear is the increased hurricane activity. Some say we may already be seeing that, but its hard to say if the increase is specifically due to global temperature changes or not.


Sorry I thought that was what you referring to :/ yea to something to do with the jet stream needing a certain amount of salt to function which the fresh water dilutes, which could cause it to shut down :/ least thats the theory,

Yep though extreme event do seem to be happening alot more often. Time will tell if this pattern will continue. Hopefully not but I think it will. The worst part of the predictions is that it could in even less water in parts of Africa, as if Somalia doesn't have it bad enough already..
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:25 pm

DiM wrote:
Doc_Brown wrote:It is a myth that there was any sort of consensus in the 1970s that global cooling was in effect. In fact, a survey of the literature found 7 scientific papers from 1965 to 1979 that predicted global cooling. In that same period, there were 44 papers that predicted global warming and 20 that were neutral.


yeah sure. that quote is perfectly true. there was no general consensus of an ice age because that was a total bullshit. but the earth was indeed going through a cooling period.


This quote doesn't just say there was no consensus on the "ice age," it says there was no consensus on global cooling at all (since 62% of the papers said global warming and only 10% said global cooling). This is in total contradiction to what you said, cf.

DiM wrote:back in that time the scientific community agreed that the earth had been going through a cooling period between 40-70's.
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby DiM on Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:32 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
DiM wrote:
Doc_Brown wrote:It is a myth that there was any sort of consensus in the 1970s that global cooling was in effect. In fact, a survey of the literature found 7 scientific papers from 1965 to 1979 that predicted global cooling. In that same period, there were 44 papers that predicted global warming and 20 that were neutral.


yeah sure. that quote is perfectly true. there was no general consensus of an ice age because that was a total bullshit. but the earth was indeed going through a cooling period.


This quote doesn't just say there was no consensus on the "ice age," it says there was no consensus on global cooling at all (since 62% of the papers said global warming and only 10% said global cooling). This is in total contradiction to what you said, cf.

DiM wrote:back in that time the scientific community agreed that the earth had been going through a cooling period between 40-70's.


read the quote again. i'm talking about the cooling from 40 to 70 which is agreed upon by the scientists and the quote is talking about the PREDICTED cooling after the 70's which the scientists did not agree upon.

so the quote is not in contradiction to what i'm saying. in fact it is confirming everything i've said so far. 40-70 we had a global cooling that lead to a media manufactured ice age while scientists debated over the future
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:38 pm

DiM wrote:read the quote again. i'm talking about the cooling from 40 to 70 which is agreed upon by the scientists and the quote is talking about the PREDICTED cooling after the 70's which the scientists did not agree upon.

so the quote is not in contradiction to what i'm saying. in fact it is confirming everything i've said so far. 40-70 we had a global cooling that lead to a media manufactured ice age while scientists debated over the future


No, that's wrong for two reasons:

1. If you go back to the link in question and read the article in question, they specifically refer to the claim made in the 1970s that the Earth had been cooling since the 1940s. If you think Doc Brown is saying something else, you're either misinterpreting what he's saying or he said it wrong.

2. We couldn't have predicted a cooling trend at the time, without past evidence of cooling to indicate future possibilities. The whole point is that people looked at the last three decades, supposedly saw the Earth was cooling in that time, and predicted it would continue to do so. That is exactly what the article refers to.
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby DiM on Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:06 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
DiM wrote:read the quote again. i'm talking about the cooling from 40 to 70 which is agreed upon by the scientists and the quote is talking about the PREDICTED cooling after the 70's which the scientists did not agree upon.

so the quote is not in contradiction to what i'm saying. in fact it is confirming everything i've said so far. 40-70 we had a global cooling that lead to a media manufactured ice age while scientists debated over the future


No, that's wrong for two reasons:

1. If you go back to the link in question and read the article in question, they specifically refer to the claim made in the 1970s that the Earth had been cooling since the 1940s. If you think Doc Brown is saying something else, you're either misinterpreting what he's saying or he said it wrong.

2. We couldn't have predicted a cooling trend at the time, without past evidence of cooling to indicate future possibilities. The whole point is that people looked at the last three decades, supposedly saw the Earth was cooling in that time, and predicted it would continue to do so. That is exactly what the article refers to.



ok, so english is not my first language but after reading the article again i have to say i still don't see any reference to the period i'm talking about.

here's the article:
show


nowhere in that article do i find references to the 40-70's period. all the talk is about the PREDICTED cooling AFTER the 70's which in fact derives from the actual cooling that really happened in the 40-70's.

basically what happened was this: scientists recorded a decline in temperature from 40 to 70. then some (minority) said the trend will continue after the 70's while others (majority) said that it will in fact reverse and that the temperatures will rise or at least remain constant. obviously the media listened to the minority and created the mini ice age drama.

all this started when neoteny said that scientists never agreed the earth was cooling. that is wrong. the scientists agreed the earth was cooling from 40 to 70. what they did not agree was what would happen after the 70's, weather it will keep cooling or not. heck, it doesn't even matter if the temperatures taken in the 40-70's are right or wrong. all that matters is that at some point scientists AGREED that from the 40 to 70 the earth cooled. that's all i claimed and nothing more.
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:14 pm

Neoteny wrote:In case you're curious about what actual climate scientists think ("alarmists" if you're a troglodyte), you can read a typical response here.


The paper’s title ā€œOn the Misdiagnosis of Surface Temperature Feedbacks from Variations in Earth’s Radiant Energy Balanceā€ is provocative and should have raised red flags with the editors. The basic material in the paper has very basic shortcomings because no statistical significance of results, error bars or uncertainties are given either in the figures or discussed in the text. Moreover the description of methods of what was done is not sufficient to be able to replicate results. As a first step, some quick checks have been made to see whether results can be replicated and we find some points of contention.


WHOOPS!
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby BigBallinStalin on Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:23 pm

@NEOTONY

Could you bullet-list some facts of about "climate change/global warming"? What's really going on? What troubles the scientists, which variable are important and which can be measured?

How does one assess climate change, and then determine its causation?

(Please feel free to take any of the above and/or throw out a good article).
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby Metsfanmax on Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:38 pm

DiM wrote:ok, so english is not my first language but after reading the article again i have to say i still don't see any reference to the period i'm talking about.


I was referring to the article written by the researchers (where the webpage Doc Brown linked to says "it is well worth reading the researchers' own version..."). In the article, they state that what actually happened was that someone in the early 1960s stated that a global cooling trend had been in effect since the 1940s, and that this was the first significant work done on the subject. Starting in the early 1970s, though, researchers started to pick apart that work and realized that the global cooling statement in the first paper was definitely exaggerated and didn't have a real basis, so the consensus in the 1970s was definitely not that the Earth was cooling. That is why I take exception to your statement.
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby DiM on Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:50 pm

Metsfanmax wrote:
DiM wrote:ok, so english is not my first language but after reading the article again i have to say i still don't see any reference to the period i'm talking about.


I was referring to the article written by the researchers (where the webpage Doc Brown linked to says "it is well worth reading the researchers' own version..."). In the article, they state that what actually happened was that someone in the early 1960s stated that a global cooling trend had been in effect since the 1940s, and that this was the first significant work done on the subject. Starting in the early 1970s, though, researchers started to pick apart that work and realized that the global cooling statement in the first paper was definitely exaggerated and didn't have a real basis, so the consensus in the 1970s was definitely not that the Earth was cooling. That is why I take exception to your statement.


ok. i went to the pdf file of the study and read what was there. and it still presents clear proof that i was right. cooling from 40 to 70 was a general scientific consensus.

The first analysis to show long-term warming trends was published in 1938. But such analyses were not updated very often.Indeed, the Earth appeared to have been cooling for more than two decades when scientists first documented the change in trend in the 1960s. The seminal work was done by J. Murray Mitchell, who in 1963 published the first up-to-date temperature reconstruction showing that a global cooling trend had begun in the 1940s. Mitchell used data from nearly 200 weather stations, collected by the World Weather Records project under the auspices of the World Meteorological Organization, to calculate averaged temperatures into latitudinal bands. His analysis showed that global temperatures had increased fairly steadily from the 1880s, the start of his record, until about 1940 before the start of a steady multi-decade cooling (Mitchell 1963). By the early 1970s, when Mitchell updated his work (Mitchell 1972), the notion of a global cooling trend was widely accepted, albeit poorly understood.


and this is basically what i've been saying all along. at a certain point scientists AGREED that the earth is cooling.
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby jimboston on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:45 pm

PLAYER57832 wrote:
jimboston wrote:
oVo wrote:Effects of Global Warming?

August 1st and it's already the second hottest summer of record in Texas and likely to become the first before it's over, since this is the start of the Lone Star State's hot month. The remnants of a tropical depression just blew through last weekend and brought no rain. In fact I haven't seen any rain since early May.

I'm guessing many mid-western states will also set record highs this summer.


A record that is only a few hundred years long at best.

How old is the planet?


Not true.


It's funny how you don't know how to read and/or completely misunderstand what you read.

The original comment was about the fact that this is "the second hottest summer on record." She was obviously referring to the historical record of observed and recorded temperatures.

My point was simply that a record only a couple/few hundred years old has no geological significance.... as it is a tiny slice of time as compared to the age of the planet.

You then go off on a diatribe telling me my comments were "not true". You really meant "not correct" but that is a subject for a different thread.

You point to geological evidence of temperature change.

I have never disputed evidence of temperature change. The Earth has been warming and cooling and warming and cooling since it's formation. What I dispute is...
1) The "certainty" of some scientists about the preciseness of their measurements.
2) The claims that we "know" that humans are causing the current changes.
3) The claims that these increase in temperature caused by humans will ultimately be our doom.

evidence does NOT equal proof

I do think there may be something to climate change.... but my faith in what the media says has been hurt by all the false claims and outright lies by some climate scientists who have made these claims to further personal goals.
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby jimboston on Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:50 pm

Neoteny wrote:
jimboston wrote:
Neoteny wrote:
Also, numbers 1 and 2 are blatantly false.


Prove this statement.


No. I am 95% certain you will just be wasting my time. I'm not going to spend a half hour explaining and citing a topic you can research for yourself in ten minutes, especially when I'm doing it for someone who apparently has no qualms about making up "facts." If you want my perspective on climate change, then search that phrase within my posts. If you want something to which you can respond with more delusions, you may proceed to do so by responding to this post.

If you do see something above a fifth-grade science level about which you want to discuss, I'll be happy to oblige.


I am 100% certain that you can't prove my original first two statements false.

If you have any comprehension of English and logic you can read that they are written in such a way as to make them irrefutable.

Can't prove a negative.
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby Neoteny on Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:34 am

jimboston wrote:
Neoteny wrote:
jimboston wrote:
Neoteny wrote:
Also, numbers 1 and 2 are blatantly false.


Prove this statement.


No. I am 95% certain you will just be wasting my time. I'm not going to spend a half hour explaining and citing a topic you can research for yourself in ten minutes, especially when I'm doing it for someone who apparently has no qualms about making up "facts." If you want my perspective on climate change, then search that phrase within my posts. If you want something to which you can respond with more delusions, you may proceed to do so by responding to this post.

If you do see something above a fifth-grade science level about which you want to discuss, I'll be happy to oblige.


I am 100% certain that you can't prove my original first two statements false.

If you have any comprehension of English and logic you can read that they are written in such a way as to make them irrefutable.

Can't prove a negative.


Now I'm 99% sure that you are a waste of time.

@BigBollinStalin

I'll see about coming up with something concise this evening.
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby jimboston on Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:03 am

Neoteny wrote:
Now I'm 99% sure that you are a waste of time.



In other words....

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BAWK! BAWK!
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:13 am

jimboston wrote:Here are some simple facts.

1) NO ONE knows if "global warming" really happening or not... we have only a fraction of the data we need to understand this. Anyone who claims to KNOW is full of shit.
Wrong. We KNOW that the average temperature of the Earth has risen. We don't know exactly why or exactly what the result will be. Part of the misunderstanding is media hype and folks who could care less about details. For example, warming causes more snow for a time, not less. So, pundits want to go to Washington and make a show of haivng snowball fights... and don't bother to understand that this is precisely what was predicted.

jimboston wrote:2) Even if the world is warming up... NO ONE knows if we (humans) are causing it... or if it is part of some larger cycle that we have very-little or no effect on.
Your statement is sort of true, but where you want to take that (the importance you give it) is wrong. We don't know 100% that it is from humans, though data is pretty conclusive that humans are making the situation worse, even if we are not "the" cause (few environmental issues have just one cause). However, we DO know that bad things are already happening and we are not able to control other factors. Therefore, it behooves us to do what we can to forestall or perhaps prevent the global warming climate change trend.


So, basically the first statement is false. The second is technically true, but irrelevant to whether we should worry about global warming now or not.
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby BigBallinStalin on Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:25 am

Thanks, neotony, and take your time. I'd rather have you post something educational than waste your time debating with certain people.
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby jimboston on Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:40 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:
jimboston wrote:Here are some simple facts.

1) NO ONE knows if "global warming" really happening or not... we have only a fraction of the data we need to understand this. Anyone who claims to KNOW is full of shit.
Wrong. We KNOW that the average temperature of the Earth has risen. We don't know exactly why or exactly what the result will be. Part of the misunderstanding is media hype and folks who could care less about details. For example, warming causes more snow for a time, not less. So, pundits want to go to Washington and make a show of haivng snowball fights... and don't bother to understand that this is precisely what was predicted.

jimboston wrote:2) Even if the world is warming up... NO ONE knows if we (humans) are causing it... or if it is part of some larger cycle that we have very-little or no effect on.
Your statement is sort of true, but where you want to take that (the importance you give it) is wrong. We don't know 100% that it is from humans, though data is pretty conclusive that humans are making the situation worse, even if we are not "the" cause (few environmental issues have just one cause). However, we DO know that bad things are already happening and we are not able to control other factors. Therefore, it behooves us to do what we can to forestall or perhaps prevent the global warming climate change trend.


So, basically the first statement is false. The second is technically true, but irrelevant to whether we should worry about global warming now or not.


You are mistaken... as usual.

The term Global Warming as used by proponents is generally accepted to mean the warming of the Earth's temperature, likely caused by humans, and NOT a "natural" occurrence... not a part of a normal cycle.

Can you show the Earth is warming??? Yes if you manipulate the statistics and look only at a relatively short time frame. If you go back far enough... can you state this for a fact. No.

There are many many many points in the history of the planet where things were much warmer. Even during the middle ages I recall reading how for several decades it was too warm for grapes to grow in France, and the best wine grapes were coming from England. (Yes... this is anecdotal I know.)

The fact that many credible scientists dispute global warming... the fact that global warming proponents have lied and falsified data... these two things are enough to say that "global warming" can no be proved.
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby jimboston on Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:41 am

BigBallinStalin wrote:Thanks, neotony, and take your time. I'd rather have you post something educational than waste your time debating with certain people.


I think I am hurt.

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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:26 am

jimboston wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
jimboston wrote:Here are some simple facts.

1) NO ONE knows if "global warming" really happening or not... we have only a fraction of the data we need to understand this. Anyone who claims to KNOW is full of shit.
Wrong. We KNOW that the average temperature of the Earth has risen. We don't know exactly why or exactly what the result will be. Part of the misunderstanding is media hype and folks who could care less about details. For example, warming causes more snow for a time, not less. So, pundits want to go to Washington and make a show of haivng snowball fights... and don't bother to understand that this is precisely what was predicted.

jimboston wrote:2) Even if the world is warming up... NO ONE knows if we (humans) are causing it... or if it is part of some larger cycle that we have very-little or no effect on.
Your statement is sort of true, but where you want to take that (the importance you give it) is wrong. We don't know 100% that it is from humans, though data is pretty conclusive that humans are making the situation worse, even if we are not "the" cause (few environmental issues have just one cause). However, we DO know that bad things are already happening and we are not able to control other factors. Therefore, it behooves us to do what we can to forestall or perhaps prevent the global warming climate change trend.


So, basically the first statement is false. The second is technically true, but irrelevant to whether we should worry about global warming now or not.


You are mistaken... as usual.

The term Global Warming as used by proponents is generally accepted to mean the warming of the Earth's temperature, likely caused by humans, and NOT a "natural" occurrence... not a part of a normal cycle.

No, I am not wrong. Global warming refers to warming.. the exact cause, as you have noted is unknown, although there is almost certainly a component of human impact.

jimboston wrote:Can you show the Earth is warming??? Yes if you manipulate the statistics and look only at a relatively short time frame. If you go back far enough... can you state this for a fact. No.
Again, not true, although yes, people who want to just glance at a few charts and claim they understand geologic cycles, etc do try to make this claim.

jimboston wrote:There are many many many points in the history of the planet where things were much warmer. Even during the middle ages I recall reading how for several decades it was too warm for grapes to grow in France, and the best wine grapes were coming from England. (Yes... this is anecdotal I know.)
LOL...I would have to look up whether France had specific data point anomolies, but that you would make that claim pretty much shows that you do NOT understand the issues.. and are precisely why Neoteny, etc are fustrated with attempting to educate you. The data showing global increases takes ALL of that into account and looks at the entire globe.

Also, part of the models very much do indicate that even while the overall temperature is increasing slightly, there will be pockets of even extremely unusual cold.. along with various other weather phenomena. Which is one reason why REAL climate scientists try to avoid the "warming" idea and instead talk about "climate change" becuase it makes it clearer to non-scientists that haivng a blizzard in DC does NOT disprove the theory. No matter how many naysayers want to suggest that is the case.

jimboston wrote:The fact that many credible scientists dispute global warming... the fact that global warming proponents have lied and falsified data... these two things are enough to say that "global warming" can no be proved.

Nope, the problem is that instead of actually LOOKING at the data presented and the scientific explanations, folks want to go off poor media coverage and decide that "snow in DC means global warming is just false." Global warming is not about every patch of earth going up in temperature at the same rate, or even all going up at all. It is about an overall average and phenomenal changes that result from just a small overall change.
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby JPcelticfc on Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:30 pm

Player is talking sense!! evidence like grapes couldn't grow in France isn't particularly scientific. I could bounce back and say the Thames river in London used to freeze over enough people had markets on it.

With the data available to scientists, of which there is alot, the vast majority agree that it is happening!! what credentials have any of we to say they are wrong?
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby jimboston on Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:58 pm

JPcelticfc wrote:Player is talking sense!! evidence like grapes couldn't grow in France isn't particularly scientific. I could bounce back and say the Thames river in London used to freeze over enough people had markets on it.

With the data available to scientists, of which there is alot, the vast majority agree that it is happening!! what credentials have any of we to say they are wrong?


1) A majority agree... not a vast majority.

2) What about the people who falsified data to get more funding? You just decide to ignore that???
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby Metsfanmax on Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:59 pm

jimboston wrote:2) What about the people who falsified data to get more funding? You just decide to ignore that???


It is easy to ignore something that never happened.
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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby Doc_Brown on Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:03 pm

jimboston wrote:The fact that many credible scientists dispute global warming... the fact that global warming proponents have lied and falsified data... these two things are enough to say that "global warming" can no be proved.

Just a quick comment on this. I presume you're referring specifically to the East Anglia University emails that a hacker got hold of and released to the public. Although it made quite a news splash given that there were a handful of quotes that seemed pretty damning (at least as present by the news media), scientific review committees later cleared the researches of falsifying data or doing anything improper with the data sets.

There are standard practices in the scientific community that are completely valid but might sound bad to those outside the community when details are given out of context. As an example, consider the two charts at the end of this post. Both show the US Federal outlays as a percentage of GDP. The only difference is the scaling of the vertical axis. Neither chart is wrong, though the first does make it more difficult to identify a trend.
Another aspect that was much more relevant to the "Climategate" relates to the interpretation and scaling of your data set. Satellites do not measure actual temperatures. I don't know enough about the specifics, though I suspect they record either atmospheric reflectivity or the intensity of certain infrared wavelengths. Yet even these measurements are recorded as relative intensity levels on a photodetector. The sensors have to be properly calibrated to yield any useful data. A simpler example would be a thermistor which are widely used as temperature sensors. But they don't provide a direct measurement of temperature. Instead, the resistance across the device changes as temperature changes. Over a small range of temperatures, the relationship is linear, so for applications that don't need high precision, you can pretty much just verify resistance at a high and a low temperature, and you'll have a pretty good idea what the actual temperature is given some resistance value between (or even somewhat outside) those two values. But suppose you need a very precise measurement of temperature over a pretty large range. Real thermistors have an intrinsic nonlinearity, and that nonlinearity is not necessarily the same for different types of thermistors. So the best way to calibrate would be to very carefully measure resistance values for a large number of precisely known temperatures and build a lookup table for future use. But taking this back to the satellite situation, we don't have another way to accurately record temperatures of various atmospheric layers to calibrate the satellites. That's what we want the satellites for, and if we already knew the temperatures, we wouldn't need the satellites to begin with! So we have to model the data, make use of a careful understanding of the physics of our detectors, and build up a case for a proper instrument calibration. Then once we start recording data, we compare it to expectations, general understanding of the particular situation, and the level of repeatability (how well it compares with what other people are measuring). If our values are radically different in any of those respects, we may have to go back and double-check our models for the instrument behavior, and in some cases we may have to change the calibration settings if we come across an error. This is especially true if our instruments combined with our existing calibration model are reporting something that is demonstrably wrong.

I don't recall the exact situation with the East Anglia researchers (I don't think it was satellite data, but I don't remember for sure). But again, they have been exonerated by review boards. I wouldn't be surprised that if you were to dig through my emails from the past ten years, you'd probably find a few sentences that, when taken out of context, might sound like I was intentionally misrepresenting some data set, when nothing could be further from the truth.

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Re: New Global Warming Facts

Postby Neoteny on Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:20 pm

I dunno about y'all, but I'm convinced. Let's toss all the climate science and listen to two chemists affiliated with Dow Jones talk about the wonders of hydrocarbons...

Jesus, and people make a big deal about climate scientists conflicts of interest...
Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
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