The USA Left led Military ,worst Defeat/blunder in 200 years

[ConfederateSS]

------------THE NEW WOKE/LEFT MILITARY ...HELPING AMERICA SUCK THE WORST HUMILIATING DEFEAT / BLUNDER IN THE WORLD OVER THE PAST 200 YEARS
-----------------AFGHANISTAN....SAD USA SAD...

-------------------YES,WORSE THAN...:
----------------1)Germany at Stalingrad...Hitler split his forces..attacked Stalingrad just for it's name..sent the other part of Arny group south to the rich oil fields in the Cacussusas...He should of forgot Stalingrad and went all out for the oil fieldsLetting the Italian,Hungarian,and Romanian Army units guard The right flank of the attack part hitting Stalingrad..when the Russians smashed through the weak German allies...Surrounding the Germans in Stalingrad...Von Mamstien wanted to go right away and rescue The 6th army...Guerring said the air Force could supply 1000 tons a day so there was no need to send a relief force...Hitler bought the plan..as Russian women would fly world war one style plane attack German supply planes,only 300 to 400 tons were getting through...Finally after 4 months of German troops fighting in Stalingrad,low on supplies,,Hitler decided to give Von MansTein a chance to send relief a break through...But after 4 months...With all the Russians units now between help from Von Manstien and the trapped 6th army..There was noway for Manstein to break through,,,Russians took the air fields in Stalingrad..The Germans over 300,000 surrendered..

----------------2)France at Dien Bein Phu...The French General Navarre...convinced the high command of France...He could pull the Viet Gen.Giap into attacking Dein Bien Phu,then crush the Vietcong troops...OOPS,,,The French soon became surrounded and the Veit Gen Giap attacked the French...The same way George Washington attacked the British at Yorktown...Bombbard the city ..Dig trenches..,closer..Keep doing it over and over again...until The French at the end...were fighting and holding on to a position the size of a baseball diamond....They finally surrendered...when the French were sending supplies..they were captured...by Giap's forces....they included snails,champigan and new stars ,because Gen.Navarre was promoted in rank...to inspire victory...

----------------3)The USA in Vietnam....as Giap used casualties and news properganda in the USA to force the American people to yell stop the fighting in Vietnam...The way we left sad...Because when the troops came home..the were not welcomed...That is all i am saying.i am always going to be pissed about that...My Father deserved better...

----------------4)The Battle of The Little Big Horn...the curse of standing rock...when the treaty of Standing rock was broken...The USA was cursed...which led to the climatic battle...as A Shaman Medichine Man had a dream of Custer's defeated...he warned Custer...Well Custer decided to attack because he thought he was attacking women and children...He split his force of 750 men into 3 attack groups...256 men would fight at last stand hill...But before Sitting Bull slammed the trap...surrounding Custer and his men...a small force got Custer to chase them Custer stopped...saw Indians in front of him...on both sides of the hills around him...Custer still could of turned around and went back the way he came...But since he was being picked to run and most likely win the Presidency in 1876 election...His advisors told him to win one more big battle out west...Well weather that was going through his mind,or being called a coward,,turning and running from a fight...He raised his sword ,yelled charge men....as he chased the small band of Indians...The other Indians came down from the sides and soon surrounded Custer..He ordered dismount...as he dug into HISTORY...as his troops were wiped out...Giving The USA ARMY one of it's most crushing defeats...All for the hopes of false Gold...The Black Hills screw up...just to trick the Indians off their land...CURSE OF STANDING ROCK...IRONICALLY...THE KEYSTONE PIPELINE,WAS ALLOWED TO GO AGAINST THE STANDING ROCK TREATY...AGAIN THE CURSE OF STANDING ROCK HITS THE USA...I MEAN LOOK WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THE USA SINCE THE KEYSTONE PIPELINE OPENED...SURE BIDEN STOP IT...BUT THE CURSE HAS ALREADY BE RELEASED ON AMERICA AGAIN...LOOK ANOTHER HORRIFIC THING,BROUGHT TO THE USA ,VIA THE CURSE...THE USA LEFT LED MILITARY...THEY COULDN'T EVEN BEAT AMERICA'S LAST OUT RIGHT VICTORY...GRENADA ... .... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[Dukasaur]

Numerous puppet regimes propped up by the American military have collapsed as soon as you stopped propping them up.

The corrupt kleptocracy of South Vietnam.

The corrupt kleptocracy of Iran under the puppet Shah.

The corrupt kleptocracy of the Batista government in Cuba.

The corrupt kleptocracy of the Lucas Garcia regime in Guatemala.

The list just goes on and on. How long am I willing to keep typing? Suharto, Somosa, Mobutu, it's such a long and tiresome list.

Now the corrupt kleptocracy of Afghanistan can be added to the list. It collapsed maybe slightly faster than some of the others, and given that it happened during the age of social media, it's been a little more public. But it's ultimately the same old story. You install a corrupt puppet state. Its leaders rob their own people blind and become more and more unpopular. Once you stop wasting time and lives propping it up, it falls. This is not a military defeat! This is a failure of policy. You cannot indefinitely keep a nation chained to a thieving kleptocrat. As his crimes accumulate, what little popular support he once had falls away, and in the end he can only be propped up by sheer naked force. The lesson is simple: STOP INSTALLING WORTHLESS PUPPET STATES!!! It isn't rocket science, it really isn't.

To borrow the immortal words of Neil Young: "Why? How many more? Why? How many more? Why? How many more?"

[ConfederateSS]

Numerous puppet regimes propped up by the American military have collapsed as soon as you stopped propping them up.

The corrupt kleptocracy of South Vietnam.

The corrupt kleptocracy of Iran under the puppet Shah.

The corrupt kleptocracy of the Batista government in Cuba.

The corrupt kleptocracy of the Lucas Garcia regime in Guatemala.

The list just goes on and on. How long am I willing to keep typing? Suharto, Somosa, Mobutu, it's such a long and tiresome list.

Now the corrupt kleptocracy of Afghanistan can be added to the list. It collapsed maybe slightly faster than some of the others, and given that it happened during the age of social media, it's been a little more public. But it's ultimately the same old story. You install a corrupt puppet state. It's leaders rob their own people blind and become more and more unpopular. Once you stop wasting time and lives propping it up, it falls. This is not a military defeat! This is a failure of policy. You cannot indefinitely keep a nation chained to a thieving kleptocrat. As his crimes accumulate, what little popular support he once had falls away, and in the end he can only be propped up by sheer naked force. The lesson is simple: STOP INSTALLING WORTHLESS PUPPET STATES!!! It isn't rocket science, it really isn't.

To borrow the immortal words of Neil Young: "Why? How many more? Why? How many more? Why? How many more?"

----- ...As for the shah in Iran....We would handle the hostage problem... horribly...As we get ready for another one in a few days......As Iran goes ,we would then help an Iraqi gain total control of Iraq...supplied Saddam with weapons and money to fight IRAN....As the USA would have to go and clean that mess America made years later..
------------But it is just the way this Afgan...thing is unfolding at the end...The White House,The Pentagon....Biden would do better to take advice from Capt.Crunch and Col.Sanders...Then the woke General Staff he has to listen to at The Pentagon... ...... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[riskllama]

*whoosh*

[DirtyDishSoap]

*whoosh*

[jusplay4fun]

ConfSS,

Please do not be like saxi and overstate your case. Less hyperbole and more analysis are helpful, too.

JP4Fun

[riskllama]

why not have him start with basic grammar like spelling, punctuation & sentence structure? aren't you supposed to be a teacher or something???

[jonesthecurl]

Oh, is SS speaking English? I wasn't sure.

[ConfederateSS]

------------------------WAIT UNTIL THE 1,000,s of AMERICANS START BEING KILLED...BECAUSE THEY WERE LEFT BY THEIR COUNTRY AFTER AUGUST 31st......BUT HEY, AT LEAST THERE ARE THE "THEY", "THEM" PLAQUES ON THE BATHROOM DOORS AT THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE PENTAGON......BECAUSE THE TOP MILITARY LEADERS AND THE PRESIDENT CARE MORE ABOUT USING THE RIGHT PRONOUNS BY THE WOKE CULTURE...THAN HOW TO RUN A MILITARY OPERATION.....CAN YOU READ THAT CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT AMERICA IS DONE AS LEADER OF THE FREE WORLD CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT... OR DO YOU NEED MORE CLUES BUT HEY,IT'S ALL GREEK TO ME .... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[jusplay4fun]

why not have him start with basic grammar like spelling, punctuation & sentence structure? aren't you supposed to be a teacher or something???

It is obvious that ConfSS:

1) failed his class in basic grammar;

2) struggled in the classes in which writing skills are evaluated; (I do so in my science classes that I teach, btw);

3) any and all attempts to assist him in such matters have been ignored;

4) finding and correcting all such errors of ConfSS would demand far too much of my time;

5) despite all his writing errors, I comprehend his basic points.

Also, finding and correction all such errors by ConfSS would take time away from pointing out all of the errors of logic and lies that saxi posts about the COVID Vaccines.

[KoolBak]

It's like watching nomadpatriot and mrswadke discuss china

Wasted effort RL....appreciate the effort however.

[Dukasaur]

I'm inspired by your spelling on that one. Mrs what-a-dick is what it suggests to me.

[DirtyDishSoap]

why not have him start with basic grammar like spelling, punctuation & sentence structure? aren't you supposed to be a teacher or something???

I've already tried a fund raiser. Didn't go anywhere.

[Dukasaur]

[HitRed]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/north-kor ... n-watchdog

Thanks Biden

[2dimes]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/north-korea-appears-to-have-restarted-key-nuclear-reactor-un-watchdog

Thanks Biden

My favorite part.

This picture taken on September 3, 2017 and released by North Korea's official Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) on September 4, 2017 shows North Korean leader Kim Jong-Un attending a meeting with a committee of the Workers' Party of Korea about the test of a hydrogen bomb, at an unknown location. (STR/AFP via Getty Images) (STR/AFP via Getty Images)

It's not fear mongering this time though.

[bigtoughralf]

lol 200 years? Wasn’t Vietnam in the 1970s? Or there’s the betrayal of the Kurds, which I believe was within the last 3-4 years.

Why anyone still trusts the US is beyond me. The Japs must be firing up their nuclear reactors as we speak. Or just rolling out Mandarin lessons across their public schools. Same end result.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Hard not to trust a country with the worlds largest military that dwarfs every other country combined. Hue.

[jusplay4fun]

ConfSS falls into the saxi TRAP of overstating his case.

To put the US withdraw from Afghanistan as THE WORST is way over the top. IT MIGHT be one of the 5 worst defeats for US Military. I will agree that the Battle of the Little Bighorn by CUSTER was BAD. The Battle at Cold Harbor, AMONG many blunders by Union Armies in VA, was BAD. And Lee's decision to order Pickett's Charge on Day 3 of the Battle of Gettysburg is another HUGE Blunder. (see ***Below)

BUT Afghanistan worse than Stalingrad? NO WAY.

NOTE first that the situation in the past few weeks is the culmination of 20 years of conflict, and is America's longest "war". I will agree that the final stages of the withdraw (or retreat) is embarrassing. BUT we did not lose militarily, but lost the will and desire to continue the fight. As I have noted elsewhere in the CC Forum, we should have gotten out UNDER OBAMA once Osama bin Laden was killed in 2011. I am not sure even bin Laden is sufficient justification for US intervention in Afghanistan. The USA should have certainly left Afghanistan in 2011 or 2012 at the LATEST. IT was pointless to be there after bin Laden was killed and we WASTED TOO MANY American lives, money, and prestige (as well as influence and reputation).

A few facts:

US Civil War; I will chose ONE of MANY battles:
Grant, WRITING himself about Vicksburg and Cold Harbor (near Richmond, VA, 1864):

I have always regretted that the last assault at Cold Harbor was ever made. I might say the same thing of the assault of the 22d of May, 1863, at Vicksburg.

The Battle of Cold Harbor was fought during the American Civil War near Mechanicsville, Virginia, from May 31 to June 12, 1864, with the most significant fighting occurring on June 3. It was one of the final battles of Union Lt. Gen. Ulysses S. Grant's Overland Campaign, and is remembered as one of American history's bloodiest, most lopsided battles. Thousands of Union soldiers were killed or wounded in a hopeless frontal assault against the fortified positions of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee's army.

Some authors (Catton, Esposito, Foote, McPherson, Grimsley) estimate the casualties for the major assault on June 3 and all agree on approximately 7,000 total Union casualties, 1,500 Confederate. Gordon Rhea, considered the preeminent modern historian of Grant's Overland Campaign, has examined casualty lists in detail and has published a contrarian view in his 2002 book, Cold Harbor. For the morning assault on June 3, he can account for only 3,500 to 4,000 Union killed, wounded, and missing, and estimates that for the entire day the Union suffered about 6,000 casualties, compared to Lee's 1,000 to 1,500. Rhea noted that although this was a horrific loss, Grant's main attack on June 3 was dwarfed by Lee's daily losses at Antietam, Chancellorsville, and Pickett's Charge, and is comparable to Malvern Hill.[64]

All above quotes from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cold_Harbor

ConfSS's #1 Stalingrad

In the Battle of Stalingrad (23 August 1942 – 2 February 1943),[17][18][19] Germany and its allies fought the Soviet Union for control of the city of Stalingrad (now Volgograd) in Southern Russia. Marked by fierce close-quarters combat and direct assaults on civilians in air raids, it is one of the bloodiest battles in the history of warfare, with an estimated 2 million total casualties.[20] After their defeat at Stalingrad, the German High Command had to withdraw considerable military forces from other theaters of war to replace their losses

Compare this to USA Casualties in Afghanistan:

As of July 27, 2018, there have been 2,372 U.S. military deaths and 4 Department of Defense civilian deaths in the War in Afghanistan. 1,856 of these deaths have been the result of hostile action. 320 American servicemembers have also been wounded in action during the war.[1] In addition, there were 1,720 U.S. civilian contractor fatalities, for a total of 4,096 Americans killed during the war.

Running Total: 2,361
U.S. all fatalities in Afghanistan only (including civilians),

Source

Note: Table omits the deaths of service members killed in support of operations in Afghanistan in other countries along with those who died in other countries as a result of wounds sustained in Afghanistan .

Casualties here meaning deaths rather than wounded.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_in_the_War_in_Afghanistan#All_fatalities

I realize that I am comparing TOTAL in Stalingrad vs Americans killed in Afghanistan, BUT some 4-5,000 vs 1-2 MILLION is a difference of some 4 degrees of magnitude (nearly 1,000 x more in Stalingrad). To put Afghanistan ahead of Stalingrad is simply WRONG. Hitler could have avoided the loss of many German casualties but his ego and his self-delusion of his military brilliance sealed the fate of many German fighters (and also led to the death of so many Russian and Soviet fighters, of course).

My recollection is that there were some 57, 000 American deaths in Vietnam. Again NO WAY Afghanistan is ahead of Vietnam (by the USA and by France at Dien Bien Phu.

I was off a bit:

58,220

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War#Casualties

French defeat at Dien Bien Phu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War#French_defeat_at_Dien_Bien_Phu,_end_of_the_war_(1954)


***

Pickett's Charge (July 3, 1863), also known as the Pickett–Pettigrew–Trimble Charge, was an infantry assault ordered by Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee against Maj. Gen. George G. Meade's Union positions on the last day of the Battle of Gettysburg in the state of Pennsylvania during the Civil War.

Its futility was predicted by the charge's commander, Lt. Gen. James Longstreet, and it was arguably an avoidable mistake from which the Southern war effort never fully recovered militarily or psychologically. The farthest point reached by the attack has been referred to as the high-water mark of the Confederacy. The charge is named after Maj. Gen. George Pickett, one of three Confederate generals who led the assault under Longstreet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickett%27s_Charge

We will have to await developments to see how the American Retreat/Withdraw from Afghanistan impacts the USA and our Foreign Policy and the international scene. Many things in the future will not be dictated by American actions. I think the USA seriously overextended itself in both Afghanistan and Iraq under BAD Leadership by President George H.W. Bush. In both conflicts, we Americans (again) lost too many American lives, WASTED too many dollars, and used up lots of American influence and the goodwill toward America by other peoples and nations.

Afghanistan is not in the TOP FIVE. PERIOD.

[riskllama]

*WHOOSH*

[ConfederateSS]

-------Jp4fun....you have to account for the Blunder by a foolish Leader...not just the military outcome that was the result...The Germans were running unstoppable...So As With Custer...They thought nothing is going to stop them...As it looked liked it as well to everyone...
------------Now what makes Biden's blunder the BIGGEST is...The fact that BIDEN HASN'T DONE ANYTHING RIGHT FOR 50 YEARS...The media,and The LEFT got him the job as Commander and Chief...He hasn't done anything right so far...One mess after another...AS FOR THIS BLUNDER...Biden and his staff...Believe they have done a Great Job...They watched this unfold for the past 5 months...Still telling everyone is O.K. I know Vietnam was televised ...Which would lead to Giap's Victory over the U.S.,as it help people in America to protest the War...Giap's plan to Victory...
-----------But what makes this one the Greatest...Is Biden's Blunder as his staff and him believe or trying to spin it,A Great Victory... isn't just televised...The world is a smaller place...social media is exposing the Lie The White House and Pentagon has tried to pull over America's eyes...although to be fair...Biden doesn't know where he is...So to him ...It might look like a Great Victory...well he is right,A Great Afghanistan Victory...And what makes it worse, it just keeps getting worse...as the dead bodies of 13 veterans came home...As each were carried off the plane...Biden checked his watch...It is his nap time after all...He doesn't have time for his fallen...He has a Victory/9-11 Party to plan...Oh,one more thing...[size=200]STALINGRAD(NAM CAME CLOSE)...DIDN'T LAST 21 AND A HALF YEARS... ...But it is the way it ended...WE DON'T NEED TO PROTECT AN AIR BASE...BUT THE U.S, EMBASSY...You know,in a land locked country ...Hey,I have an idea...Lets let the enemy do spot checks and security for us...As we prepare to leave...BOOM 13 dead Americans and over 160 Afgans/helpers of the US... ...IT IS THE I WOULDN'T EVEN CALL THEM MISTAKE AFTER MISTAKE...I GUESS CLUELESS AFTER CLUELESS but to be honest,there hasn't been a word invented yet...Well wokey,wokey might suit the Blunder... [/size]... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue ad Silver Rebellion)...

[DirtyDishSoap]

Wasn't even a war. It was an occupation.

Know what we're good at? Obliterating anything that looks at us cross.

We can't win the political war.

Nam proved this. Iraq proved this, and now Afghanistan.

[jusplay4fun]

Wasn't even a war. It was an occupation.

Know what we're good at? Obliterating anything that looks at us cross.

We can't win the political war.

Nam proved this. Iraq proved this, and now Afghanistan.

If DDS is referring to Afghanistan, I agree. That is why I put "war" in quotes in my previous long post. It was not a declared war. As I understand US military objectives, they were to prevent Afghanistan to remain and be a safe haven for terrorists like Al Qaeda and bin Laden. That is MUCH TOO vague a military goal.

I am not sure, but the last major war where the President in office got a Congressional declaration of war MAY have been WWII. President George H. Bush (41) may have gotten some Congressional authorization for his actions in Kuwait and Iraq. There were other military actions by the USA where the President received limited Congressional authorization for a limited time to conduct those military actions. I cannot recall and see no need to research that issue.

[jusplay4fun]

in Response to ConfederateSS:

Yes, mistakes by the Military Leader make a battle or military action a HUGE BLUNDER.

I think that most of us agree that Custer blunders led to his defeat and death at Little Bighorn.

I will support my earlier contention that General Robert E. Lee blundered at Gettysburg.

In summary, Gettysburg demonstrated all of Lee’s weaknesses. He initiated an unnecessary strategic offensive that, because of his army’s inevitable return to Virginia, would be perceived as a retreat and thus a defeat. He rejected alternative deployments of Longstreet’s corps that might have avoided or mitigated critical losses of the Mississippi River (including Vicksburg and then Port Hudson, Louisiana) or middle and southeastern Tennessee (including Chattanooga). His tactics were inexcusably and fatally aggressive on the second and third days at Gettysburg, he failed to take charge of the battlefield on any of the three days, his battle-plans were ineffective, and his orders (especially to Stuart and Ewell) were vague and too discretionary. Gettysburg indeed was Lee at his worst.
https://www.historyonthenet.com/picketts-charge

And ConfSS, before replying, based on the one quote above, please read the entire article I posted above.

I also read that Lee had too much confidence in the ability of his troops to win any and all battles. He was overconfident of his Leadership and his inner circle and of his troops. (General Longstreet did advise AGAINST Pickett's Charge; that is well documented.)

Also, from the SAME source:

British Colonel Arthur Fremantle, an observer at Gettysburg and elsewhere, advised Lee concerning the flaws of Lee’s aggressiveness: “Don’t you see your system feeds upon itself? You cannot fill the places of these men. Your troops do wonders, but every time at a cost you cannot afford.” Later, Lee’s own General D. H. Hill described the folly of the Army of Northern Virginia’s penchant for the tactical offensive:

We were very lavish of blood in those days, and it was thought to be a very great thing to charge a battery of artillery or an earth-work lined with infantry. . . . The attacks on the Beaver Dam intrenchments, on the heights of Malvern Hill, at Gettysburg, etc., were all grand, but of exactly the kind of grandeur which the South could not afford.

All of the attacks mentioned by Hill had been personally ordered by Lee.

[jusplay4fun]

NOW my main point about Afghanistan. The US was going to withdraw from Afghanistan sometime this year. I think that President Trump's plan was to be OUT by May 1.

The mistake by President Biden and his leadership team was not the withdraw but how the final phase in the past 30-60 days was planned and executed. They were completely fooled by the surrender of Kabul and many other large cities in Afghanistan. The leaders they counted on to defend Kabul, the army units that got LOTS of US training and war supplies, SIMPLY COLLAPSED, surrendered, and offered almost NO resistance. There are reports of some intelligence warnings about this, but those warnings seem to have been ignored by the Leadership.

So, the US was leaving Afghanistan, after nearly 20 years. The death of 13 Marines and the Navy Corpsman did not change the ultimate plan. The loss of a single battle did not change the course of US actions. We had overstayed our time in Afghanistan by some 10 years, OR MORE.

To be sure ConfSS see this, let me enlarge the font here:

To put this blunder in Mountainous Afghanistan on the same Plain (or Plane) as Stalingrad (or Vietnam) is an overreach. ConfSS overstates his case by several orders of magnitude. Like saxi, ConfSS exaggerates his claim and it seems that his main goal is to make President Biden look bad. Biden is doing a fine job of that without help from saxi or ConfSS.