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Pirlo wrote:Why Guardiola just can't learn from his past mistakes?
betiko wrote:Pirlo wrote:Why Guardiola just can't learn from his past mistakes?
humm... guardiola's past mistakes:
titles not won:
year 1: bollocks (6/6 titles)
year 2: lost the copa del rey AND lost the champion's league (2/4 titles)
year 3: lost the copa del rey!!! (5/6 titles)
year 4: lost the liga and the champions league! (1/3 titles)
year 5: lost the german supercup (3/4 titles, 2 still in play)
guardiola has not won a total of 6 trophies in his whole career, I guess out of all the coaches out there, he is definitely the one that needs to learn the most out of his mistakes!
joke aside, yeah, 70% posession and so little goal ocasions is ridiculous. I think I saw that only 3/13 shots were between the posts too. This is far from over though.
Pirlo wrote:betiko wrote:Pirlo wrote:Why Guardiola just can't learn from his past mistakes?
humm... guardiola's past mistakes:
titles not won:
year 1: bollocks (6/6 titles)
year 2: lost the copa del rey AND lost the champion's league (2/4 titles)
year 3: lost the copa del rey!!! (5/6 titles)
year 4: lost the liga and the champions league! (1/3 titles)
year 5: lost the german supercup (3/4 titles, 2 still in play)
guardiola has not won a total of 6 trophies in his whole career, I guess out of all the coaches out there, he is definitely the one that needs to learn the most out of his mistakes!
joke aside, yeah, 70% posession and so little goal ocasions is ridiculous. I think I saw that only 3/13 shots were between the posts too. This is far from over though.
your perception is cool, but look deeper... His Barcelona included the most amazing stars, it's definitely not his fault that he got the best players in the world, but it would be ridiculous to let rookie mistakes lose you the Champions League over and over. know what sucks? when you repeat exactly the same mistakes over and over. He just seems to be overconfident and willing to demolish his opponents no matter if they got some tricks to stop him. Remind me why he had to be the attacking side in 2010 semi-finals against Inter when the game was in Italy. didn't he repeat the same risk in 2012 against Chelsea? and once again last night?
DiM wrote:i think it's wrong to judge the quality of a coach only by the trophies he won. barca and bayern are 2 of the best teams in the world. it's far easier to get results when you have fenomenal players. great coaches somehow manage to win against all odds. if simeone manages to win CL with atletico, it will be an amazing performance, similar to mourinho's porto back in 2000. if guardiola wins CL this year it will be just a normal/good performance. nothing spectacular or unexpected.
however this doesn't mean guardiola is not a great coach. he might very well be, it's just that he hasn't had the chance to train a smaller, weaker team.
as for mistakes, guardiola's biggest one is that he seems to be inflexible and sometimes incapable of quick reaction. other teams can go from a very defensive approach to a full blown all out attack tactic, all in the span of one game. you can see this at real madrid, or at chelsea and plenty of other teams. however the teams trained by guardiola start with one strategy and keep doing it at the same pace for the whole duration of the game. when it works they win with 5-0, when it doesn't work, you get the impression that they could keep playing for several more hours and still not score.
for example last evening bayern started the game with its defenders 40 meters from their own goal, retaining possession in the opponent's half and giving real huge spaces on the counterattack. why? because that what bayern does regardless if it's against real or hoffenheim. thing is this works wonders vs hoffenheim cause they suffocate in defence and end up conceding lots of goals but when the defence is very tight bayern seems to be very sterile and if that team is real and has perfect players for counters, then you're asking for trouble. and ancelotti knew this would happen. had bayern started a bit more defensively real wouldn't have caught them on the counter and furthermore real would have been forced to come out and attack thus exposing themselves.
as a personal note guardiola also is to blame for trying the same tiki-taka shit that he used at barcelona. in his first interview as bayern's coach he promised he will adapt to bayern's mentality and not change the system that jupp heynckes had in place. we can clearly see now that he changed his mind and that bayern has lost quite a lot of its magnificence, the play style is no longer eye-catching and in some games it's down-right boring.
i'm a bayern fan and i'll be one long after guardiola will be gone, but i have to say that regardless of how many trophies guardiola will win with bayern, i'll still prefer heynckes' style.
and since i'm also a real madrid fan i have to say that this result of 1-0 leaves the outcome wide-open. both bayern and real have 50/50 chances of going to the final. and my biggest regret is that this isn't the actual final. i would have preferred for real to meet chelsea and bayern to meet atletico and then see real-bayern in the final act. it's something i keep hoping for every year.
betiko wrote:and I don't agree. A coach that win tons of trophies is necesairly a good coach.
his job is to win, and we all know that a good team is not just a sum of good players. we all know how football is; and we've all seen enough football to give tons of examples of great teams on the paper that just didn't work out.
guardiola's choice isn't as easy as you guys are presenting it. joining the bayern last year was close to professional suicide; they had won everything. first thing guardiola does is to lose the german supercup (the lamest of all the titles in play); that team had won absolutely everything the year before, just like his 2009 barça and they are the only 2 teams in history to have achieved a "perfect" and he knew from the start that he wasn't going to do as good as heynkess.
Can you remind me the outcomes of the classicos while guardiola was head coach of the barça? If you are right that often, i see no reason to go on again and again.
and pirlo: if you want to be legendary and not just win, you try to do it with style; the 2009-11 barça will be remembered as the best team ever, probably.
Only a tactical genious and fantastic man leader such as mourinho stopped them.
in 2012 they wre burned out, it's a different story.
betiko wrote:A coach that win tons of trophies is necesairly a good coach.
Jürgen Klopp wrote:If Barcelona's team of the last four years were the first one that I saw play when I was four years of age ... with their serenity, winning 5-0, 6-0 … I would have played tennis.
trevor33 wrote:You mean you don't follow the news of the badge you're wearing?
Glad Moyes is gone.
And agree with the other guys regarding Pep, imo he can't be considered great until he builds a great team. Doubt he'll say at Bayern lost enough to do it either.
DiM wrote:i'm a united fan and despite not liking our current position and the way the team plays, i think sacking moyes was wrong. what's the point of sacking him with 4 more games to go till the end of season? couldn't they have waited for the season to end, then break the contract? weird.
SAF was great, he had been doing miracles with a rather poor lot of players (compared to other PL teams) but Moyes was clearly in over his head. main problem was he lost the locker room. i heard van gaal will come but i'm not sure if it's just a rumour or not. we'll see.
betiko wrote:DiM wrote:i'm a united fan and despite not liking our current position and the way the team plays, i think sacking moyes was wrong. what's the point of sacking him with 4 more games to go till the end of season? couldn't they have waited for the season to end, then break the contract? weird.
SAF was great, he had been doing miracles with a rather poor lot of players (compared to other PL teams) but Moyes was clearly in over his head. main problem was he lost the locker room. i heard van gaal will come but i'm not sure if it's just a rumour or not. we'll see.
Real madrid + man united + bayern munich fan.... (and steaua and ac milan right?)
I wonder what s the fun of picking the best historic club of each country and so blatantly suck on winners... Obviously unrelated to your history with the city, a crush, how they were founded, their fans, or any such thing. I can t possibly understand how a club that always wins and always has before you even heard of it for the first time can be remotely likeable Funny cause these are all the clubs i hate the most on this planet (+Sevilla fc). If they don t win anything for 15 years what?
the Funniest thing is that i m talking with 3 of these guys.
DiM wrote:i'm a united fan and despite not liking our current position and the way the team plays, i think sacking moyes was wrong. but Moyes was clearly in over his head. main problem was he lost the locker room.
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