The USA Left led Military ,worst Defeat/blunder in 200 years

[ConfederateSS]

So the statue of Robert E. Lee in Richmond, VA is down and gone from public display.

What was accomplished? other than SYMBOLISM? other than a few people feel good for a few hours, minutes, or days?

In terms of concrete and measurable change, what was done as a result?

Symbolism matters. I can't say for how long people will feel good, but at least they will stop feeling bad for essentially a lifetime.

Most of these symbols of Confederate power -- the Confederate flags, Confederate statues, and other symbols -- were erected during the resurgence of the KKK and the big wave of white protestant nationalism that swept the 'South' between 1915 and 1925. They are not coincidences, and they are not, as some would pretend, benign markers commemorating historical moments. They were assertions of white protestant power, in-you-face announcements saying "we won after all." As the last bits of Reconstruction were forgotten and unrepentant white supremacists swept to power in statehouse after statehouse, restoring racial segregation and finding novel ways to disenfranchise non-whites, they put their flags and statues in front of these statehouses to boldly announce their belated triumph. They were put there to intimidate non-whites and remind them who really rules the south.

Imagine if you were a non-white working at a city hall or statehouse somewhere in the south. Every day on your way to work you have to walk past a statue of Lee or Jackson or Forrest or Davis, reminding you that though you may not be a slave, you're still a second-class citizen. I think you'd feel pretty shitty about it. Removing that statue won't solve all your problems, but it will at least finally stop that oppressive feeling.

------I didn't erase you quote Duk,I was typing... realized...I am in the middle not the bottom...Rather than start over...I just finished what I Was typing...oops...But I'll put your quote back....... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... ....As to imagine... Imagine if you were on you way to any work... Shooting started up,and you didn't have any statue to hide behind...That would be a better thing to imagine,because I would be more afraid and offended,if people were trying to shoot,rob or kill me....Than of any kind of statue...That ,let's be honest...If nobody told you what that statue was,you would just walk by it,pay it no mind...Except for all the bird poop on it...I mean really...In Downtown Detroit...There is a statue on 3rd and Michigan....I am willing to bet all the people that walk by it,never pay any attention to it,or who it is...Tadeusz Kosciuszko...the Fort Building,defensive specialist for Washington ,during the American Rev.War...I doubt anyone downtown knows anything about him... ...But hey,all someone would have to do,is say tear it down...It would be torn down....
----------One more thing to imagine.... Imagine if you were on your way to anywhere...You get offended by objects.....But you call yourself a Democrat..A Party that used the KKK to keep you from voting...A party that broke up African American family values in the 1960's..Since 2010 has used Identity Politics,to separate America....Imagine every election you keep drinking the Democratic Kool-Aide...Staying on their puppet string...But find objects that could never hurt you in 2021 offensive...Just Imagine......

[ConfederateSS]

--------Now back to the OP......9/11....the shot that started it all....Talk of symbolism... Tomorrow symbolizes the downfall of The United States of America...As the East has stuck it in the face of The Top Western Country...You LOSE....Top no more,lost respect around the world...China a 5,000 year story ,with slavery I might add...Is The World Leader of the 21 st Cen....Sort of Ironic... wouldn't you say....... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... ...As History has repeated....The U.S..Under estimated The Japanese....Boom...Pearl Harbor.....Nixon Warned the World of China in the 1970's....The U.S. laughed at Nixon...Boom...The World now bows before CHINA...You really think. Covid was a mistake...No!...It work just how China planned it would...

[bigtoughralf]

You really think. Covid was a mistake...No!...It work just how China planned it would...

It was the Chinese government that brainwashed half of America into repeatedly flouting the basic public health guidance designed to prevent 700k Americans dying of Covid?

[HitRed]

This is a godless government* that sets its eyes on destruction of the country I have created.

- Jesus

*Biden Administration

[mookiemcgee]

This is a godless government* that sets its eyes on destruction of the country I have created.

- Jesus

*Biden Administration

You'd think being omnipotant and all, God would be worried about the destruction of the earth or the oceans or something a little more 'meta' than 'the country he created'. Do you not believe he created more than America? Did he leave that to other gods?

You gotta try a little harder here hitred, you are really underselling God lately.

[HitRed]

For ages I have called people back to me their Creator. The one that made the stars and the moon and fixed them in the sky for all to see and marvel at the wonders of the Lord. I the Lord created all this and humans to serve and praise my glorious name.

-Jesus

[riskllama]

This is a godless government* that sets its eyes on destruction of the country I have created.

- Jesus

*Biden Administration

separation of church & state, HR - it’s in the constitution, you should check it out sometime….

[jonesthecurl]

I didn't kn.ow Jesus signed the Declaration of Independence.

[HitRed]

God has only mentioned two countries, USA and Israel. 2 Presidents by name, Trump and Biden.


April 29, 21

The enemy is within the walls of your country. The leadership of your country is corrupt and evil, and is out to destroy this great country that was founded on me. Their hatred for this country is immense and intense. Those in power are not to be trusted. They are doing the devil’s work.

Feb 26, 21

There is so much more going on than most humans are aware of. The tragic turn the world has taken with the last election in your country. Most will not know the consequences until its too late to change. The world continues to change daily and not for the better. My commands are continually ignored and abused by most who strive to do their own thing at whatever cost.

[mookiemcgee]

God has only mentioned two countries, USA and Israel. 2 Presidents by name, Trump and Biden.


April 29, 21

The enemy is within the walls of your country. The leadership of your country is corrupt and evil, and is out to destroy this great country that was founded on me. Their hatred for this country is immense and intense. Those in power are not to be trusted. They are doing the devil’s work.

Feb 26, 21

There is so much more going on than most humans are aware of. The tragic turn the world has taken with the last election in your country. Most will not know the consequences until its too late to change. The world continues to change daily and not for the better. My commands are continually ignored and abused by most who strive to do their own thing at whatever cost.

So God has only existed since 2012 or later... very sus

[HitRed]

I live in the hearts of men. Those that close their heart has no life within. I am the one who saves souls from death and destruction. I have no beginning and no ending. I am the God of your father’s from ages past.

[riskllama]

it’s gonna be a buttery smooth transition into senility for you, HR…

[jusplay4fun]

Symbolism is important. It might not directly solve any problems but it sets an expectation of how society will be run and how people ought to conduct themselves within it.

I don't really know much about these American generals but it sounds like having a statue of this Lee guy is the sort of thing that would inspire a lot of people towards regional separatism and isolationism, a bit like erecting a statue to Gerry Adams or William Wallace. So you can see why it's good to remove it.

I agree that symbolism is important. But symbolism does not pay bills, does not educate children better, does not keep someone from killing another person, does not prevent someone from robbing a neighbor. Symbolism does can make someone feel better about this situation or themselves, but the things others claim result from symbolism is usually not tangible. Liberals seem to like symbolism and deal with FEELINGS. I prefer to have pragmatists to work with (BUT I DO NOT WANT ONLY Pragmatists in my workplace. We need ALL types of people; life has taught me that).

Symbolism and feelings do not solve major social issues in many communities: poverty, poor education attainment, high levels of crime, lots of frustration, lots of (and even TOO MUCH) government, lack of good jobs, lack of good food nearby (too many "food deserts in poor areas), emulation of thugs, fatherless families, absentee fathers, and MANY, MANY more social issues. I doubt removal of Confederate statues or renaming schools from Lee-Davis to Mechanicsville High will help ANY students achieve and learn significantly MORE. It's ALL simply symbolism. Have schools in Virginia no longer named A. P. Hill or no longer have "Rebels" as mascots changed the culture of the school and raised student achievement? Or had ANY REAL tangible and quantifiable results? I have not seen any evidence of ANY of these things. I have seen NO improvements in Society as History is re-written.

[jusplay4fun]

So the statue of Robert E. Lee in Richmond, VA is down and gone from public display.

What was accomplished? other than SYMBOLISM? other than a few people feel good for a few hours, minutes, or days?

In terms of concrete and measurable change, what was done as a result?

Symbolism matters. I can't say for how long people will feel good, but at least they will stop feeling bad for essentially a lifetime.

Most of these symbols of Confederate power -- the Confederate flags, Confederate statues, and other symbols -- were erected during the resurgence of the KKK and the big wave of white protestant nationalism that swept the 'South' between 1915 and 1925. They are not coincidences, and they are not, as some would pretend, benign markers commemorating historical moments. They were assertions of white protestant power, in-you-face announcements saying "we won after all." As the last bits of Reconstruction were forgotten and unrepentant white supremacists swept to power in statehouse after statehouse, restoring racial segregation and finding novel ways to disenfranchise non-whites, they put their flags and statues in front of these statehouses to boldly announce their belated triumph. They were put there to intimidate non-whites and remind them who really rules the south.

Imagine if you were a non-white working at a city hall or statehouse somewhere in the south. Every day on your way to work you have to walk past a statue of Lee or Jackson or Forrest or Davis, reminding you that though you may not be a slave, you're still a second-class citizen. I think you'd feel pretty shitty about it. Removing that statue won't solve all your problems, but it will at least finally stop that oppressive feeling.

The Robert E. Lee monument dedicated in 1890 was removed on September, 8, 2021. The last remaining statue on Monument Avenue is the Arthur Ashe Monument, memorializing the African American tennis champion, dedicated in 1996.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_Avenue

Now, in fairness, the Lee statue was at the forefront of the movement that reached a peak in the period that Duk refers to in his comments.

Monument Avenue is a tree-lined grassy mall dividing the eastbound and westbound traffic in Richmond, Virginia, originally named for its emblematic complex of structures honoring those who fought for the Confederacy during the American Civil War.[4] Between 1900 and 1925, Monument Avenue greatly expanded with architecturally significant houses, churches, and apartment buildings.[5] Four of the bronze statues representing J. E. B. Stuart, Stonewall Jackson, Jefferson Davis and Matthew Fontaine Maury were removed from their memorial pedestals amidst civil unrest in July 2020

from same source, above

[jusplay4fun]

So the statue of Robert E. Lee in Richmond, VA is down and gone from public display.

What was accomplished? other than SYMBOLISM? other than a few people feel good for a few hours, minutes, or days?

In terms of concrete and measurable change, what was done as a result?

Symbolism matters. I can't say for how long people will feel good, but at least they will stop feeling bad for essentially a lifetime.

Most of these symbols of Confederate power -- the Confederate flags, Confederate statues, and other symbols -- were erected during the resurgence of the KKK and the big wave of white protestant nationalism that swept the 'South' between 1915 and 1925. They are not coincidences, and they are not, as some would pretend, benign markers commemorating historical moments. They were assertions of white protestant power, in-you-face announcements saying "we won after all." As the last bits of Reconstruction were forgotten and unrepentant white supremacists swept to power in statehouse after statehouse, restoring racial segregation and finding novel ways to disenfranchise non-whites, they put their flags and statues in front of these statehouses to boldly announce their belated triumph. They were put there to intimidate non-whites and remind them who really rules the south.

Imagine if you were a non-white working at a city hall or statehouse somewhere in the south. Every day on your way to work you have to walk past a statue of Lee or Jackson or Forrest or Davis, reminding you that though you may not be a slave, you're still a second-class citizen. I think you'd feel pretty shitty about it. Removing that statue won't solve all your problems, but it will at least finally stop that oppressive feeling.

I think Duk makes VERY VALID points here. During the early 1900s, blacks were routinely intimidated and harassed and prevented from voting. Jim Crow laws were passed in the South to keep Blacks as second class citizens. (And women were at that time 2nd class or even lower, by the way.) Voting restrictions were rampant. The KKK lynched black men WAY TOO often during this time period. It is not a period of time that we Americans can be proud of from the perspective of treatment of ALL minorities, women included. And such discrimination was NOT limited to the South, the former Confederacy.

Let me add that I know people who live near and on Monument Avenue. They (those that I know personally) did NOT move there to be near Confederate statues but to be in a good neighborhood with good property values of those houses. Not every white person in the South is a racist supporter of the Confederacy.

It is simple to think of the Southern whites as ignorant racists. I do not know too many people who are. I was not born in Virginia or in the South, but I have come to appreciate most Southern traditions. NOT ALL are good; it is NOT that simple. The region is diverse and complex and so are its citizens.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Doesn't matter where you live. There's racist idiots all over the globe.

[mookiemcgee]

Doesn't matter where you live. There's racist idiots all over the globe.

fact

[ConfederateSS]

----------Harassed by who....I also stated the facts in my The 3rd trick of the Democratic Party.....After the War Between the States....The Blacks formed very strong family valued communities through out The SOUTH...As Senate Rep...seats were given to the 1st African American Congressman to fill the seats left by those who left the Union in 1861...After the Southern States rejoined the Union...The KKK made sure all whites voted Democrat...So the Blacks would lose their Congress seats....But Blacks were becoming very powerful at the start of the 20th Cen...They owned their own businesses....A lot became millionaires...The strong Black Republican Communities grew...Also Blacks were out scoring whites in schools throughout the South from the 1920's through the on set of WW2...
--------To break up these Strong family valued Communities...The DEMOCRATS DNC...Push for integrating the Southern schools....Now Black schools were low on materials and supplies,as they blew the white students away....But The Democrats made RACE an issue,to hide that fact...Made it sound good for integrating the schools...But in reality...it hurt the Strong Black Republican Communities....As The Democrats tightened their grip on the Black Vote...As in the 1960's they drove the Black father out of the picture,in exchange for free money and depending on the Government (Democrat run)...As Now they use Identity Politics....Critical Race theory ....What we used to call...Stereo Typing.....As They once again see their slip on the Black community...As the DNC tries to hold on to the Black Vote....
-------I said Reconstruction...As even the LEE statue was made....But yes,I will agree That Strom Thurmond,Dixie Crats...Used The Southern Spirit ,Once Again as Granny from the Beverly Hillbillies....For His Presidential Runs in the 1940's...As It was the wrong way to use Confederate Symbols,much like the KKK....A lot of people love their Southern Heritage,it was wrong to play on that sediment....But a lot of Statues were made during ,like I said Reconstruction....The Majority in fact...Also made by the Daughters of The Confederacy,and The Sons of Confederate Veterans ...There is nothing ,wrong with that...Honoring fallen Americans...YES, AMERICANS...
----------I heard someone say,but they lost... Didn't The USA lose in Vietnam...look at all the Memorials...Should we take them down also...they lost...Or how about now what took place in Afghanistan...The War on Terror...Should we take down the 9-11...Memorials...Once again,The USA lost...Or should we remember the fallen,and what vets died for...Right or wrong...They died for what they thought was worth fighting and dying for....Was dying half way around the world ,having you government turn it's back on you worth it...I think they would die all over again...If they had to... Because it is what they believed,after 9-11.... -... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...
-------Give Big Tech and the media time....As in real life,the USA has turned it's back on Veterans...As many are homeless....But yet put Afghanistan refugees in hotels....The media will make it look like the Veterans did something wrong...Glad the USA lost...just wait ,it's coming... ...

[ConfederateSS]

This is a godless government* that sets its eyes on destruction of the country I have created.

- Jesus

*Biden Administration

----------I got your back Hitred....
------------JESUS ,The Roman Empire....later Constantine...made the Empire Catholic....The USA was modeled after the Republic of The Roman Empire....As Rome fell,now goes the USA....But no need to worry,for we will be in HIS Kingdom...when all is said and done... ...... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[jusplay4fun]

Symbolism is important. It might not directly solve any problems but it sets an expectation of how society will be run and how people ought to conduct themselves within it.

I don't really know much about these American generals but it sounds like having a statue of this Lee guy is the sort of thing that would inspire a lot of people towards regional separatism and isolationism, a bit like erecting a statue to Gerry Adams or William Wallace. So you can see why it's good to remove it.

It was said by at least two others: racists are everywhere. Many in the USA ignore the racists outside the South. For example, for many years Southern states have to get approval by the Federal DOJ (Dept. of Justice) for changes to voting matters

I never saw the statues and memorials to the Southern Generals (and to fallen sons and fathers of Southern defenders of their HOME) as a rally symbol and focal point for "regional separatism and isolationism." Southern Pride, YES. Watch videos of the Southern 500 NASCAR race from the 1960s, or earlier, if you can find them. LOTS of Confederate flags, BUT NO one spoke of seceding from the USA. THAT Battle and War is OVER. PERIOD.

BUT....REGIONAL PRIDE??....for sure. Southerners were beaten down and wanted some Pride. Listen to Sweet Home Alabama ..."Southern Man don't need him around...."


https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=RrmWFjnAP2E&list=RDAMVMRrmWFjnAP2E

BUT, #2,
Much of Southern Pride was focused on repression, harassment, and hatred of Blacks. One way to feel better while being made to feel inferior is to be better than someone else. So, for many Southerners, TERRIBLE treatment of Blacks was part of Southern Pride. The attitude was "At least we are better than n***...." .the N word....
Before I lived in Virginia, I lived in another Southern state and saw and heard and lived amongst that hatred. Blacks had to fight for respect, the right to vote, and MUCH more.

BUT NOW we are NO LONGER living in that period of HATE. But some want to act NOW, today, as if blacks are still being repressed by the Law and by "systemic racism." THAT IS NOT HAPPENING. The era of Jim Crow is OVER. There are still vestiges of that attitude, but it is not in the Law. Are there racist police? YES, a few. BUT much of the racist attitude DIED when those who grew up in that period of Jim Crow DIED.

The issue of racism in America is complex. I knew I was going to get some reaction by posting about the statue of General Lee being removed in Richmond, VA, the former Capital of the former Confederacy. In writing this particular post I got a chance to reflect on the history of racism in the South (and the USA) and from my perspective in growing up in the South. (I also lived outside the South since my Dad was in military service.) I did not see segregated lunch counters and restrooms and water fountains. I never rode public buses to see segregation in action on them. I did attend integrated public schools, however, so I experienced THAT part of the story. Also, my Dad was eulogized at his funeral as someone who fought for better treatment of blacks. I think the biggest lesson from my Dad on this matter was to TREAT OTHERS WITH RESPECT, no matter their race or ethnicity or religion (or whatever label applied)

[bigtoughralf]

Not sure how any of that means a statue of someone who stood for secession is worth keeping up tbh.

[jusplay4fun]

Not sure how any of that means a statue of someone who stood for secession is worth keeping up tbh.

I did not say that. I cannot speak for others, however.

[jusplay4fun]

ConfederateSS on Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:24 pm
said:

--------To break up these Strong family valued Communities...The DEMOCRATS DNC...Push for integrating the Southern schools....

ConfSS, Please give evidence to support your theory or your claim.

[ConfederateSS]

ConfederateSS on Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:24 pm
said:

--------To break up these Strong family valued Communities...The DEMOCRATS DNC...Push for integrating the Southern schools....

ConfSS, Please give evidence to support your theory or your claim.

------It is Historical Fact...As I wrote in my Thread...3rd trick of the DEMOCRATS...But if you want proof....Civil Rights Leader from Philly...Founder of The Woodson Center....Robert L. Woodson....He has written many books.... Including How successful Blacks were at the turn of the Century....How Blacks out scored Whites throughout the South between the 1920's ---1940's...The Fall of The Father Figure in the Black Household,thanks to Free money in the 1960's...to single mothers...... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...
-----Your Father taught you about Respect,as mine....But My Father taught me...No matter how good you are at something...There is always someone out there ,better than you...To keep me down to Earth...so to speak... Don't get to high on your horse...

[riskllama]

ConfederateSS on Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:24 pm
said:

--------To break up these Strong family valued Communities...The DEMOCRATS DNC...Push for integrating the Southern schools....

ConfSS, Please give evidence to support your theory or your claim.

------It is Historical Fact...As I wrote in my Thread...3rd trick of the DEMOCRATS...But if you want proof....Civil Rights Leader from Philly...Founder of The Woodson Center....Robert L. Woodson....He has written many books.... Including How successful Blacks were at the turn of the Century....How Blacks out scored Whites throughout the South between the 1920's ---1940's...The Fall of The Father Figure in the Black Household,thanks to Free money in the 1960's...to single mothers...... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...
-----Your Father taught you about Respect,as mine....But My Father taught me...No matter how good you are at something...There is always someone out there ,better than you...To keep me down to Earth...so to speak... Don't get to high on your horse...

inbreeding, natch.