Conquer Club

Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and maps

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Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and maps

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:47 pm

This is a continuation of the concerned debate regarding a suggestion to increase the number of games (where new recruits are limited to certain maps and settings on conquerclub) from 5 to 16.

Here is the original post:

*Attempting to solve the problem of 372895 user accounts but only 19183 active members. (November, 2009) 5.144%
*Still attempting to solve the problem of 432102 user accounts but only 19679 active members. (June, 2010) 4.554%
*Still trying to solve the problem of 442051 users but only 19350 actives. (August, 2010) 4.377%
*Still striving to solve the problem of 505438 accounts, but only 21664 actives. (February, 2011) 4.286%
*Still striving to solve the problem of 509362 accounts, but only 21677 actives. (March, 2011) 4.255%

Abstract
In their first games, New Players (Noobs, Newbies, New Recruits) won't understand the complexities of the exceptional and varied maps and game options we enjoy on Conquer Club. The New Player is farmed, ignored by the system, and left to fend for himself/herself. The likelihood that a new player will continue actively visiting ConquerClub under the current structure is not theoretically, but actually low. The retention rate (evidence of members enjoying the site) has continued to decline. We can increase the retention rate by offering the automatic training program mentioned in this suggestion. The purpose of this suggestion is to positively affect the retention rate by means of increasing user enjoyment. Some ancillary benefits are a by-product of this suggestion.

Introduction
The site does not contain enough information about Maps, Options, Gameplay and Strategy as Data on the site. While some comments and discussions contain information about strategy and the maps, there is a vacuum of hard data available to browsers or new players.

This recommendation offers a reasonably achievable goal: participate in X games, unlock this cool thing; participate in X more games, unlock these other cool things; etc. A goal of this suggestion is to allow new Recruits to experience this great game with basic, beginner, understandable, game options that don’t give an unfair advantage to seasoned players. New recruits are often cherry-picked by veterans--an experience that cannot be enjoyable for the new recruit.

Look at where this site is going! We are getting more and more game options. We are getting more and more maps. The foundry is buzzing with activity and commentary. There is an ever-increasing list of add-ons like “clickable maps” and “maprank.” All of these things are great! For players who have been here for a long time, these changes have come about over time, slowly. Long-time players have had the opportunity to learn each aspect of ConquerClub as they have come out. Rarely, if ever, has the site dumped a bunch of new game options and maps on the players all-at-once. Yet, we assume that new players will be able to “get it” and understand everything whence the entirety of the site is dumped upon them when they join! Where do you think this site will be in two years? At the current pace, I’m thinking 250 maps, and 20 game options (currently there are what, 10 Options?) I think 250 maps with 20 game options will be great for me and I look forward to it. I think it will be absolutely terrible for new players who join on November 7, 2011 if there isn’t a comprehensive training program (like mine…or another) to help them navigate the site and gameplay.

The current “training” provides more opportunities for players to be upset and to leave the site. The Society of Cooks is a great idea, but dependent on meeting the right people at the right time and/or dependent upon good posts and responses in the Society of Cooks Forum and classrooms. I certainly have played in games with options and on maps where I posted something like this in the game chat: “How did you just get all those armies?” Man, was that frustrating to “not know!” Imagine how frustrating that can be, and how quickly a user would exit the site. I think ConquerClub has a problem with enjoyment and retention, and that is what this suggestion speaks to!

Concise description:

Post a link on the homepage to “MAPROOM”
Limit New Players to 25 “Level 0” Maps
Limit New Players to escalating or no spoils, chained, no fog, no manual (Sorry, Manual has fog for now and complicates things), no assassin.
Limit New Players to everyman for himself games and terminator
Unlock remaining maps after 16 completed games
Unlock remaining game options after 16 completed games
Provide a PM after completing 4, 8, 12, and 16 games which includes links to helpful information about what was unlocked
Players still receive an email after their first rating, first victory, first game, etc.
A New Recruit can circumvent this process by paying for Premium. Once Premium, all maps are unlocked, all options are unlocked. (PMs will still be sent.)
Specifics:

Map Categories

Potential Names for each level: Level 0 - Beginner, Level 1 - Novice, Level - 2 Intermediate, Level 3 - Competitive, Level 4 - Advanced, Level 5 - Professional, Level 6 - Experimental

Unlock Level 0: Classic Shapes, Classic Art, Archipelago, Canada, Caribbean Islands, CCU, Circus Maximus, Conquer 4, Doodle Earth, France, Haiti, High Seas, Hong Kong, Iceland, Indochina, Ireland, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Middle East, Mongol Empire, Netherlands, Oceania, Portugal, Puget Sound, WWII Iwo Jima. (25)

Unlock Level 1: Alexander’s Empire, Ancient Greece, Arctic, Australia, Brazil 2, British Isles 2, Cairns Metro, Discworld, Draknor - Level 1, Egypt: Lower, Egypt: Upper, Extreme Global Warming, Iberia, Land and Sea, Midgard, Midkemdil, Montreal, South America, U.S. Senate, USA, USA West, WWII Eastern Front. (22)

Unlock Level 2: 8 Thoughts, Africa, Asia, BeNeLux, Chinese Checkers, Dust Bowl, Egypt: Nubia, Egypt: Valley of the Kings, Europe, France 1789, Gilgamesh, Great Lakes, Greenland, Philippines, San Marino, Soviet Union, Sydney Metro, Tamriel, Triple Alliance, USA New England, USA Rockies, USA Southeast, USA Southwest, WWI Ottoman Empire, WWII Australia. (25)

Unlock Level 3: American Civil War, Battle of Actium, Berlin 1961, Cairns Coral Coast, Castle Lands, Charleston, Crossword, Duck and Cover, Europa, Greater China, Halloween Hollows, Imperium Romanum, Indian Empire, Italy, King of the Mountains, Malta, North America, San Francisco, Scotland, Space, USA Great Lakes, USApocalypse, Wales, World 2.1, WWI Western Front. (25)

Unlock Level 4: Arms Race!, Conquer Man, D-Day: Omaha Beach, Eastern Hemisphere, Europe 1914, Feudal War, Holy Roman Empire, New World, NYC, Oasis, Pearl Harbor, Poker Club, Route 66, Texan Wars, The Citadel, Treasures of Galapagos, WWII Europe. (17)

Unlock Level 5: Age of Merchants, Age of Realms 1, Age of Realms 2, Age of Realms 3, Bamboo Jack, Battle for Iraq!, City Mogul, Forbidden City, Madness, Operation Drug War, Poison Rome, Prohibition Chicago, Rail Australia, Rail Europe, Rail USA, Siege!, Solar System, Supermax: Prison Riot!, Waterloo, WWII Ardennes, WWII Gazala. (21)

Unlock Level 6:
-The Random Map (1 map, and it is not really a map per se as much as it is an option to play from one of all the maps, ergo a player would need to have unlocked all the maps via the preceding Unlock Levels in order to use the Random Map function in its current iteration.)
-All Beta Maps (Currently (November 5, 2009) there are 6 Beta Maps available to play) (Beta maps would be ascribed a particular level once they come out of Beta and have achieved their “final forge, quench.”)

Learning the Game and Learning about the Site




Seeing as a non-Premium can only play in (4) four games at a time, having only 25 maps to choose from for the first 10 games is really not a limitation nor would it be a detraction from the site. Once a non-Premium completes 10 games, he/she has only played on a maximum of 10 of the maps. Most non-Premium New Recruits stick to the same maps anyways. A review of several players’ first 10 games shows that they played predominantly on the Classic Maps and the 23 other less-complicated maps listed in Level 0. Players who have been farmed, received assistance from the Society of Chefs, received assistance from a friend who introduced them to the site, or by apparent random selection have chosen 1 or 2 maps from outside of Level 0 for their first 10 games.

My suggestion doesn’t help new players to find a benevolent player-mentor nor does it help the new player to find other players who are trying to learn. It does, however, create a pseudo-training regimen that is unbiased and serves to slowly and methodically introduce the new player to this great website on which we play. And when I say “slowly,” it really isn’t that slow. You’ll understand by reading further that players really cannot play on every single current map (141 maps as of November 5, 2009) before they’ve played in 16 total games. It just isn’t possible to play on more than one map at a time. My recommendation herein offers an introduction to groups of maps at a time and an introduction to game options in a piecemeal, manageable manner. After participating in 16 games, slightly more than 10% of the existing maps, the player will have unlocked all the options and all the maps. Their training will be, so-to-speak, complete.

While my recommendation doesn’t directly offer one-on-one or group assistance, each automatically issued PM sent throughout the process to the player will offer links to the Society of Cooks and other helpful, compassionate links within the website that will lead (directly or indirectly) to players who are willing to help. A key word just mentioned is “automatic.” The player will receive these PMs just as we all received PMs when we first joined. The administrators on this site won’t be spending additional time with player questions, in fact, they will likely spend less time. With additional codexes on the site, players looking for help can read about it (in the event that there isn’t a player or someone in the Society of Cooks available to help them.)

This will improve the following aspects of the site:


By listing the maps in a “Map Room” on the homepage, the best part of ConquerClub will become visible to new visitors and browsers of the site. I believe this will attract more players to join the site. The remainder of my suggestion will help to get them to continue playing once they have joined. “Getting Browsers to investigate the site”
First, this suggestion in its entirety will make the site more attractive to browsers and new visitors to the site. If there is a visible training program, it might not seem too difficult to join. “Attracting New Members”
Second, once the visitor has created a username and password, this suggestion will make the site games and options easier to navigate.
Third, once the player has started playing games, this suggestion will positively affect the likelihood that the player will continue to come back to the site for more games. “Player Retention”
Fourth, as the player plays more games: the new awards, the quickly awarded medals, the automatic PMs with helpful hints and map data, and the protection from farmers and protection from the worst of the site will positively affect the player’s experience. This will affect how frequently the player comes back to the site. With automatic emails and links to helpful information on closed topics (no flaming, no rabble to read through) new players will (more than ever before) be provided with information on how to understand each aspect of the game, new maps, and game options. “Site Enjoyment”
Fifth, fewer games are ruined by New Recruits. A team game with a new recruit means the opposing team gets an easy win 90% of the time. It takes work to lose to a new recruit in a team game. Similarly, a New Recruit can ruin a multiplayer game on a complicated map. I shouldn’t need to go into specifics on this. Players who don’t know the game options and the maps act as a wild card tipping the scales and invalidating the ranking system. Ultimately, more people will stick around if their games aren’t ruined by New Recruits. “Site Enjoyment and Player Retention of existing players”
Sixth, (and ancillary – this is not the main reason for this suggestion it is a fringe benefit) this will likely put an end to REAL MULTIS. I cannot fathom why someone would want multiple accounts, it is difficult enough for me to handle my account and the games I play. If it would take a veritable eternity for a player to earn the right to play in maps as a new player, I would think that multis would see less interest in investing time in “building” a new multi.
Seventh, (a fringe benefit of a fringe benefit) because it would be so much more difficult to start a new multi, it would be less likely that an account coming out of the same IP address is a real multi. PERCEIVED MULTIS, better said: multiple accounts in the same household owned by separate individuals, are accused of being multis and banned simply because they enter the site off of the same IP address. My husband and I are victims of this and were banned from playing together for a long time. The site will have to put less effort into multi-hunting and could potentially lean frequently towards accepting that more than one person in a home, a fraternity house, a dorm, a business, a webcafe, a public library, an airport, and/or a hotel could be playing on ConquerClub as separately owned accounts.
Eighth, (also ancillary and a fringe benefit) this will help to put damper on the activities of farmers. There have been quite a few players who have been restricted, banned, or otherwise for REAL FARMING by contacting new recruits and sucking them into complicated maps with complicated options. While farmers could still set game options that new players are allowed to play in, ConquerClub could also limit communication between new recruits and seasoned players. Farmers could also sit and wait until a player has unlocked all of the options; therefore, this wouldn’t “kill” farming.
Ninth, (a fringe benefit of a fringe benefit) There have been quite a few players who have been restricted, banned, or otherwise for simply starting games on particular maps. This PERCEIVED FARMING is not actually farming and the players who have been punished for it were punished unfairly. To Farm, a player must actively seek out victims by posting on their wall or in the game chat, or sending a PM inviting the victim to join a game on a difficult map with difficult settings. Simply starting games on difficult maps is not farming. The site will have to put less effort into finding farmers and punishing them. The players who have been unfairly limited on the site can be allowed to freely roam the site. Fewer players will post complaints about the unfair punishment of players.
Additional thoughts
This is an edit from a much broader and more comprehensive training program unlocking different aspects after every 5 completed games up to the 80th completed game.

Your Further Input on this Suggestion and Objections
Please Respond! Consider this suggestion to be fluid and putty-like. I am by no means stuck to the original suggestion and willing to hear all input!
---
Stats for postings on this topic:
Unique Opinions: (Total): Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35,
Unique posters in support: (36): 3, 2, 2, 3, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 6, 0, 0, 1
Unique off topic w/o opinion: (8): 2, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,
Unique posters on the fence: (10): 2, 0, 1, 1, 2, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1,
Unique posters against: (17): 0, 3, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 2, 0, 1, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1,

Support from 36 members.
Posters against: 17.

Any trolling, baiting, flaming, including (but not limited to) personal attacks to the OP or any other posters will be met with a report to the Cheating and Abuse Forum. The report will seek to have your post deleted or mod edited and will also seek to have you banned from conquerclub.com. Be good, be fair.
Last edited by Queen_Herpes on Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006

This link is the best way to make new players feel welcome...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:48 pm

Among several deates on this topic include the possibility for adding AI to the system, please discuss...
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006

This link is the best way to make new players feel welcome...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:49 pm

Another debate on this topic is whether or not to give the new recruit the opportunity to "opt out" of the "training" in this suggestion, please discuss...
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006

This link is the best way to make new players feel welcome...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:50 pm

Another debate on this topic is whether or not to include the settings as part of this suggestion, or to simply leave it to unlocking maps, please discuss...
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006

This link is the best way to make new players feel welcome...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:52 pm

Another debate on this topic is to determine how many games should be the threshold for unlocking maps/settings. The current threshold set by lackattack is 5 completed games. The suggestion herein is for 16 games. How many games beyond the 5 completed games? Please discuss...
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006

This link is the best way to make new players feel welcome...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:53 pm

Further debates will be added here in this post. Please keep your posts considerate and avoid breaking the rules of conquerclub.com. Any violations will be reported in the C&A Forum.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006

This link is the best way to make new players feel welcome...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby rdsrds2120 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:00 pm

Edit: Unlocked

QH, please condense your 6 posts. That is multiple posting, which is unnecessary.
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby JoshyBoy on Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:10 pm

I fail to see why you continue to pursue this topic. Do you not think lackattack is aware of these ideas, especially when this one is the most dominant in the suggestions forum? The topic here is far too broad with soo many factors and possibilities, and what makes it worse is your attempted intimidation of others and your multiple consecutive posts.
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby Queen_Herpes on Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:20 pm

JoshyBoy wrote:I fail to see why you continue to pursue this topic. Do you not think lackattack is aware of these ideas, especially when this one is the most dominant in the suggestions forum? The topic here is far too broad with soo many factors and possibilities, and what makes it worse is your attempted intimidation of others and your multiple consecutive posts.


Your comment is a troll, a flame, and spam. You are being reported. You previously claimed to a moderator that you would leave me alone.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006

This link is the best way to make new players feel welcome...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby JoshyBoy on Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:27 pm

Ok, Queen_Herpes, go ahead and report me. I offered you a truce and friendship and you spat it in my face by never responding. You clearly do not wish to bury the hatchet, therefore my hand of friendship has been withdrawn.

My post makes perfectly valid points and is 100% legit, as all I am doing is feeding my input to this topic.
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby natty dread on Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:50 pm

QH, you can't push a suggestion through by brute force, by claiming anyone who disagrees with your suggestion is "trolling" or "flaming" you.

The previous thread contained various good arguments against this suggestion, unsurprisingly, all of which have been conveniently ignored in your new thread.

I'm just going to say, all of those things already posted in the other thread against this suggestion are still valid arguments and still apply, and I don't see you addressing those points at all.

You try to apply the logic of video games into conquer club, but it is a flawed idea, since a video game and a social online gaming site are two very different things.

In a video game, you have already purchased the game. It is static, and what you have paid for, that's what you have, so it makes sense for the developers of a video game to add unlockable content. It's effectively a way to increase the lifetime of the videogame.

However, on an online gaming site with a substantial social aspect, like CC, things are different. A website like this is seen more as a service. Potential new players come to test the site, the service, and see if it fits their needs. If it does, they will stay, possibly buy premium, otherwise, they won't.

With increasing competition in online world domination game sites, the great diversity of game types and large amount of maps is one of the best (if not the best) asset CC has to offer. It is CC's trump card, CC's selling point. Something that sets CC apart from all other sites, a reason for players to choose CC instead of all those other sites. So I posit that these assets should be advertised to new players, not limit their choices.

Queen_Herpes wrote:striving to solve the problem of 505438 accounts, but only 21664 actives.


This is not a problem. On a site like this, it is natural to have lots more inactive accounts. Players come, try the site, and some figure it doesn't suit them, or are too impatient to wait 24 hours to take their next turn, so they leave. Those who like the site, stay.

There's absolutely nothing that would suggest that a substantial amount of players would not be staying because they find CC to have too much game types or maps. If there is, how about some evidence?

Again, I'm almost certain that implementing this suggestion would drive away more new players than it would retain. A lot of people feel the same way as I. That's all that needs to be said.
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:02 pm

Queen_Herpes wrote:Support from 36 members.
Posters against: 17.


Users active on site today 21725

% of posters who have expressed support of QH idea:
o.17%

that is, even without adding the fact that your definition of "supporting" is rather, er "unique". No web poll or thread will ever capture the full opinion of the site.

In this case, its not even the active members who matter. You need to show proof that people who have left would have stayed if this idea were implemented.
Last edited by PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby squishyg on Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:44 pm

Folks, if you don't like an idea, say so once and move on. Repeatedly coming by to voice your dissent only makes the idea more buzz-worthy. It is also understandably frustrating for the OP.

By all means, offer points of concern and constructive criticism for the idea (more on that in a minute), but there's no need to keep stopping by simply to say, "no sir, i don't like it".

That being said, QH, I appreciate your ideas for the site. I do also see a trend of you not taking constructive criticism well. Feedback is a great thing, no matter if its positive or negative. Naturally, you are within your right to demand courtesy, but please make sure you always return it.

I want everyone to elevate the level of discourse here.

respectfully, squishy
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Depends on what metric you use...
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:21 pm

Queen_Herpes wrote:This is a continuation of the concerned debate regarding a suggestion to increase the number of games that new recruits are limited to on conquerclub from 5 to 16.

New recruits who are premium can now play more than 5 maps. Or are you suggesting that the title "newbie" be extended to 16 games?
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby blakebowling on Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:29 pm

squishyg wrote:Folks, if you don't like an idea, say so once and move on. Repeatedly coming by to voice your dissent only makes the idea more buzz-worthy. It is also understandably frustrating for the OP.

By all means, offer points of concern and constructive criticism for the idea (more on that in a minute), but there's no need to keep stopping by simply to say, "no sir, i don't like it".

That being said, QH, I appreciate your ideas for the site. I do also see a trend of you not taking constructive criticism well. Feedback is a great thing, no matter if its positive or negative. Naturally, you are within your right to demand courtesy, but please make sure you always return it.

I want everyone to elevate the level of discourse here.

respectfully, squishy

^^this^^
Everyone keep your personal problems out of this thread, and out of suggestions. If any of you would like to have a discussion about anything that is not this suggestion, you have three options:
  • IF it is another suggestion: post it in that suggestions topic, or make a new topic for it
  • Take it to the Off Topic Forum (assuming it is within the rules)
  • Take it to a Private Message

I have no problem with anyone who wishes to contribute to these suggestions, and I encourage you to provide your constructive feedback. I do ask you, to keep in mind that this feedback should be focused on the suggestion, and not any other poster in the thread.

More related to this suggestion:
PLAYER57832 wrote:
Queen_Herpes wrote:This is a continuation of the concerned debate regarding a suggestion to increase the number of games that new recruits are limited to on conquerclub from 5 to 16.
I believe it is the latter, including changes concerning which order maps are played in.
New recruits who are premium can now play more than 5 maps. Or are you suggesting that the title "newbie" be extended to 16 games?
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:24 pm

Queen_Herpes wrote:
*Attempting to solve the problem of 372895 user accounts but only 19183 active members. (November, 2009) 5.144%
*Still attempting to solve the problem of 432102 user accounts but only 19679 active members. (June, 2010) 4.554%
*Still trying to solve the problem of 442051 users but only 19350 actives. (August, 2010) 4.377%
*Still striving to solve the problem of 505438 accounts, but only 21664 actives. (February, 2011) 4.286%

The numbers will almost always drop on a site such as this, because more people always come and go than stay. That is all your stats show, not an increasing problem with people leaving.
Queen_Herpes wrote:
That said, CC is always looking for ways to improve.
Abstract
In their first games, New Players (Noobs, Newbies, New Recruits) won't understand the complexities of the exceptional and varied maps and game options we enjoy on Conquer Club. The New Player is farmed, ignored by the system, and left to fend for himself/herself

This is just not true.
Every new player gets a message telling them about the Society of Cooks (SOC).
New players are limited from joining the most complex maps already. I could see asking to perhaps expand that, but that is not your suggestion.

Furthermore, while there are some people taking advantage of new players, there are MANY people who take the time to help them. There is even, still a more general mentor program, though it has not been terribly active lately. I can see somehow encouraging more people to "be nice", but your suggestion does not seem to address that.

Queen_Herpes wrote: The likelihood that a new player will continue actively visiting ConquerClub under the current structure is not theoretically, but actually low. The purpose of this suggestion is to positively affect the retention rate by means of increasing user enjoyment. Some ancillary benefits are a by-product of this suggestion.
OK, you start here with a statement of fact "the likelihood that a new player will continue".."is low". However, you have not accurately addressed why this happens. The most basic reason is that a lot of people will come to any site like this, see it and just not stay. I don't know what the retention rate is for this site compared to others any longer, but I do recall seeing some statistics a while ago that indicated it was pretty comparable to other sites. '

In other words, you have not really shown CC to have a recruitment problem.
Queen_Herpes wrote:
Introduction
The site does not contain enough information about Maps, Options, Gameplay and Strategy as Data on the site. While some comments and discussions contain information about strategy and the maps, there is a vacuum of hard data available to browsers or new players.
Agreed.

Some of this is already being fixed. There is an on-going project to make new strategy guides. They are still limited, but it takes time. The real problem, is that a lot of people don't want to spend the time reading these guides.

Beyond that, I have said all along that I think we need maps categorized by play style -- broadly, those that are like classic, the railroad groups, those that use resource pairs, several that are just plain complicated... etc, etc.

However, your suggestion does not seem to fix these problems better or at all.

Queen_Herpes wrote:
This recommendation offers a reasonably achievable goal: participate in X games, unlock this cool thing; participate in X more games, unlock these other cool things; etc. A goal of this suggestion is to allow new Recruits to experience this great game with basic, beginner, understandable, game options that don’t give an unfair advantage to seasoned players.

This is where our long-standing disagreement begins. The REAL truth is there is no clear stair-step ladder to the various CC maps. I began with Age of Merchants and Coral Cairns. For a while, I did pretty well on those. Then Fuedal and AOR came along. They threw most people for a loop, but a lot of people have wound up enjoying them immensely. Now we have such a wide range of play styles the idea that any kind of a specific ladder such as you describe actually helping players to understand the maps just does not make any sense.

Second, as noted above, you have not established that your estimation of why people leaving is truly correct, nor have you truly shown how your idea will answer any of the problems you mention above.

Queen_Herpes wrote:
New recruits are often cherry-picked by veterans--an experience that cannot be enjoyable for the new recruit.
Not sure this is true at all. I learned a lot by playing folks like Blitzaholic and such early on. To the extent it is a problem, it is not just that older folks are beating newer folks, its that they are being rude about it. However, for every rude player, you find plenty of decent players. And, you find a lot of newbies who, well seem rather spoiled poor sports and who this site could just as well do without.

Queen_Herpes wrote:
Look at where this site is going! We are getting more and more game options. We are getting more and more maps. The foundry is buzzing with activity and commentary. There is an ever-increasing list of add-ons like “clickable maps” and “maprank.” All of these things are great! For players who have been here for a long time, these changes have come about over time, slowly. Long-time players have had the opportunity to learn each aspect of ConquerClub as they have come out. Rarely, if ever, has the site dumped a bunch of new game options and maps on the players all-at-once. Yet, we assume that new players will be able to “get it” and understand everything whence the entirety of the site is dumped upon them when they join!

You have not shown how your idea will truly change this. I have played jsut about every map here on CC and not just a few times. Yet, look at my rank. I have never "cracked" major, etc. If your theory were accurate, I should be among the conquerers. I am not. Why? Because playing one map does not necessarily mean you can play well on another map. In fact, those who DO have high rank typically specialize in just a few maps or a particular style. (Team, freestyle, etc.)

Queen_Herpes wrote:
Where do you think this site will be in two years? At the current pace, I’m thinking 250 maps, and 20 game options (currently there are what, 10 Options?) I think 250 maps with 20 game options will be great for me and I look forward to it. I think it will be absolutely terrible for new players who join on November 7, 2011 if there isn’t a comprehensive training program (like mine…or another) to help them navigate the site and gameplay.
A training program, sure, but that is not really what you described.

Queen_Herpes wrote:
The current “training” provides more opportunities for players to be upset and to leave the site. The Society of Cooks is a great idea, but dependent on meeting the right people at the right time and/or dependent upon good posts and responses in the Society of Cooks Forum and classrooms.

I am not sure how you got the idea that the cook's forum is actually pushing people away? Do you have data or is this just opinion?
From my perspective, the biggest problem with the cook's forum is just that it only deals with one map and therefore is only really useful to the maps that play in a similar manner. This is a necessary limitation. I would like to see paths for other maps, but your idea does not seem to address that at all.

Queen_Herpes wrote:
I certainly have played in games with options and on maps where I posted something like this in the game chat: “How did you just get all those armies?” Man, was that frustrating to “not know!” Imagine how frustrating that can be, and how quickly a user would exit the site. I think ConquerClub has a problem with enjoyment and retention, and that is what this suggestion speaks to!
How, but forcing people to play just the maps you choose for them? I see those questions even from experienced players when they try a new map. Sometimes I feel like shouting "read the legend!" Sometimes I myself have that problem, because many new maps bring in new concepts and, well not every cartographer is adept at making a clear legend. So, I play and learn that way. You want to deny new recruits that chance, or rather, limit it to just the maps you decide are OK.
Queen_Herpes wrote:
Concise description:

Post a link on the homepage to “MAPROOM”
Limit New Players to 25 “Level 0” Maps
Limit New Players to escalating or no spoils, chained, no fog, no manual (Sorry, Manual has fog for now and complicates things), no assassin.
Limit New Players to everyman for himself games and terminator
Unlock remaining maps after 16 completed games
Unlock remaining game options after 16 completed games
Provide a PM after completing 4, 8, 12, and 16 games which includes links to helpful information about what was unlocked
Players still receive an email after their first rating, first victory, first game, etc.
A New Recruit can circumvent this process by paying for Premium. Once Premium, all maps are unlocked, all options are unlocked. (PMs will still be sent.)


What will likely happen is that many people will avoid those maps & styles, others, farmers will flock to them. It will make sure that players don't see, say, a player like myself who thoroughly enjoys AOR2, who is more than happy to explain it.

by forcing someone to be premium before they can even see all the maps, you will wind up cutting of the main recruitment tool.. namely, that people get "addicted" to their favorite type of play and want to have more games of that type.
Queen_Herpes wrote:
Specifics:

Map Categories

Potential Names for each level: Level 0 - Beginner, Level 1 - Novice, Level - 2 Intermediate, Level 3 - Competitive, Level 4 - Advanced, Level 5 - Professional, Level 6 - Experimental

Unlock Level 0: Classic Shapes, Classic Art, Archipelago, Canada, Caribbean Islands, CCU, Circus Maximus, Conquer 4, Doodle Earth, France, Haiti, High Seas, Hong Kong, Iceland, Indochina, Ireland, Luxembourg, Madagascar, Middle East, Mongol Empire, Netherlands, Oceania, Portugal, Puget Sound, WWII Iwo Jima. (25)

As I said earlier, how is playing these maps going to help you understand AOR2, frankly among the easiest map to play? or Jamaica or Fuedal or Oasis... If I were limited to those, I would not have stayed at all!
Queen_Herpes wrote:
Unlock Level 1: Alexander’s Empire, Ancient Greece, Arctic, Australia, Brazil 2, British Isles 2, Cairns Metro, Discworld, Draknor - Level 1, Egypt: Lower, Egypt: Upper, Extreme Global Warming, Iberia, Land and Sea, Midgard, Midkemdil, Montreal, South America, U.S. Senate, USA, USA West, WWII Eastern Front. (22)

Again, you call this a training program, but there is little connection between all those maps. You still omit some of those specialty maps that not everyone likes to play, but that DO definitely attract a dedicated contingent.

Queen_Herpes wrote:
Unlock Level 2: 8 Thoughts, Africa, Asia, BeNeLux, Chinese Checkers, Dust Bowl, Egypt: Nubia, Egypt: Valley of the Kings, Europe, France 1789, Gilgamesh, Great Lakes, Greenland, Philippines, San Marino, Soviet Union, Sydney Metro, Tamriel, Triple Alliance, USA New England, USA Rockies, USA Southeast, USA Southwest, WWI Ottoman Empire, WWII Australia. (25)

Unlock Level 3: American Civil War, Battle of Actium, Berlin 1961, Cairns Coral Coast, Castle Lands, Charleston, Crossword, Duck and Cover, Europa, Greater China, Halloween Hollows, Imperium Romanum, Indian Empire, Italy, King of the Mountains, Malta, North America, San Francisco, Scotland, Space, USA Great Lakes, USApocalypse, Wales, World 2.1, WWI Western Front. (25)

Unlock Level 4: Arms Race!, Conquer Man, D-Day: Omaha Beach, Eastern Hemisphere, Europe 1914, Feudal War, Holy Roman Empire, New World, NYC, Oasis, Pearl Harbor, Poker Club, Route 66, Texan Wars, The Citadel, Treasures of Galapagos, WWII Europe. (17)

Unlock Level 5: Age of Merchants, Age of Realms 1, Age of Realms 2, Age of Realms 3, Bamboo Jack, Battle for Iraq!, City Mogul, Forbidden City, Madness, Operation Drug War, Poison Rome, Prohibition Chicago, Rail Australia, Rail Europe, Rail USA, Siege!, Solar System, Supermax: Prison Riot!, Waterloo, WWII Ardennes, WWII Gazala. (21)

Unlock Level 6:
-The Random Map (1 map, and it is not really a map per se as much as it is an option to play from one of all the maps, ergo a player would need to have unlocked all the maps via the preceding Unlock Levels in order to use the Random Map function in its current iteration.)
-All Beta Maps (Currently (November 5, 2009) there are 6 Beta Maps available to play) (Beta maps would be ascribed a particular level once they come out of Beta and have achieved their “final forge, quench.”)

See the above. Newbies are already limited from some of the most complicated maps. It absolutely makes sense to keep a newbie from starting out with Waterloo or Gaza strip, but to say they cannot play Crossword? or AOR? This has nothing to do with training. I am still nor sure what your goals are, but this is not a training program.

The only added limitation that might make a little sense is to keep newbies from playing the Beta maps (if they can now, not sure?). Since these maps are being revised, it does make sense to keep them to older players both for their sake and for the sake of making comments on the map. (although.. I have thought maybe maps ought to be specifically run by a few new volunteers, just to be sure the maps really are as understandable as the creators and more experienced players think).

Queen_Herpes wrote:
Learning the Game and Learning about the Site

Seeing as a non-Premium can only play in (4) four games at a time, having only 25 maps to choose from for the first 10 games is really not a limitation nor would it be a detraction from the site

IF all the maps were similar, this would be true. They are not, so this is not a valid argument. I sought out Age of Merchants specifically because it was different. Some people do. If you want to attract more people, you need to attract people with differing tastes, not just all the same people.

Queen_Herpes wrote:
Once a non-Premium completes 10 games, he/she has only played on a maximum of 10 of the maps. Most non-Premium New Recruits stick to the same maps anyways.

But see, "the tails set the standard..."
If you want new people, you need to think beyond what "most people" do already. You need to look at what people who are not staying want. That means finding new things, not limiting.

Queen_Herpes wrote:
A review of several players’ first 10 games shows that they played predominantly on the Classic Maps and the 23 other less-complicated maps listed in Level 0. Players who have been farmed, received assistance from the Society of Chefs, received assistance from a friend who introduced them to the site, or by apparent random selection have chosen 1 or 2 maps from outside of Level 0 for their first 10 games.

Sorry, but I don't even understand what you are trying to say here.
Queen_Herpes wrote:
My suggestion doesn’t help new players to find a benevolent player-mentor nor does it help the new player to find other players who are trying to learn.
No, it does not.

Queen_Herpes wrote:
It does, however, create a pseudo-training regimen that is unbiased and serves to slowly and methodically introduce the new player to this great website on which we play.

No, it really doesn't. It just sets up barriers for which maps people can play. There is no training involved at all.

.[/quote]
I am afraid I had to stop at this point. My son wants on the computer. If this thread is still active, I will consider the rest of your post later.

EDIT -- I added the rest after the above:
Queen_Herpes wrote:While my recommendation doesn’t directly offer one-on-one or group assistance, each automatically issued PM sent throughout the process to the player will offer links to the Society of Cooks and other helpful, compassionate links within the website that will lead (directly or indirectly) to players who are willing to help. A key word just mentioned is “automatic.” The player will receive these PMs just as we all received PMs when we first joined. The administrators on this site won’t be spending additional time with player questions, in fact, they will likely spend less time. With additional codexes on the site, players looking for help can read about it (in the event that there isn’t a player or someone in the Society of Cooks available to help them.)

oK, The good part I gleaned from the above is possibly pairing players with more experienced people to help with particular maps. We do need that (and yes, I have submitted a couple of suggestions for ways to do that). However, I don't understand what you mean by codexes or the rest. As for relying upon the Society of Cooks.. there just are not enough people. They concentrate on one style of play for that reason. Besides, the mentors there are good at, trained to teach the classic map, not necessarily other maps.


Queen_Herpes wrote:This will improve the following aspects of the site:

By listing the maps in a “Map Room” on the homepage, the best part of ConquerClub will become visible to new visitors and browsers of the site. I believe this will attract more players to join the site. The remainder of my suggestion will help to get them to continue playing once they have joined. “Getting Browsers to investigate the site”

Sorry, but this does not make sense.
Queen_Herpes wrote:First, this suggestion in its entirety will make the site more attractive to browsers and new visitors to the site. If there is a visible training program, it might not seem too difficult to join. “Attracting New Members”
Again, your program is not really a training program.

Queen_Herpes wrote:Second, once the visitor has created a username and password, this suggestion will make the site games and options easier to navigate.
Why? We already have usernames and passwords.
Queen_Herpes wrote:Third, once the player has started playing games, this suggestion will positively affect the likelihood that the player will continue to come back to the site for more games. “Player Retention”

You don't show why you feel this is true. In the past, you have mentioned other sites, but those sites are just not CC and operate in very different ways.

Queen_Herpes wrote:Fourth, as the player plays more games: the new awards, the quickly awarded medals, the automatic PMs with helpful hints and map data, and the protection from farmers and protection from the worst of the site will positively affect the player’s experience.

How is this in any way going to protect players from farmers? Seems like just the opposite.
The helpful pms and such is a decent idea, but you don't need to limit maps to do that. Also, there is the problem of who would set all those up. That is the limitation to better helps -- too few people. Not too many maps.

Queen_Herpes wrote:This will affect how frequently the player comes back to the site. With automatic emails and links to helpful information on closed topics (no flaming, no rabble to read through) new players will (more than ever before) be provided with information on how to understand each aspect of the game, new maps, and game options. “Site Enjoyment”
Pure guessing on your part, not backed by data at all. I disagree.

Queen_Herpes wrote:Fifth, fewer games are ruined by New Recruits. A team game with a new recruit means the opposing team gets an easy win 90% of the time. It takes work to lose to a new recruit in a team game. Similarly, a New Recruit can ruin a multiplayer game on a complicated map. I shouldn’t need to go into specifics on this. Players who don’t know the game options and the maps act as a wild card tipping the scales and invalidating the ranking system. Ultimately, more people will stick around if their games aren’t ruined by New Recruits. “Site Enjoyment and Player Retention of existing players”
Here you talk about complaints older people have from playing newbies, not anything about how to retain new players at all. Lack has previously said he does not want older players keeping out new players except in very limited cases, because he wants to retain people.
It seems you are trying to claim that limiting games is going to increase retention. This does not make sense and seems to flie in the face of CC experience.
Queen_Herpes wrote:Sixth, (and ancillary – this is not the main reason for this suggestion it is a fringe benefit) this will likely put an end to REAL MULTIS. I cannot fathom why someone would want multiple accounts, it is difficult enough for me to handle my account and the games I play. If it would take a veritable eternity for a player to earn the right to play in maps as a new player, I would think that multis would see less interest in investing time in “building” a new multi.
Likely irrelevant. Why would someone have a multis to begin with? They want to win more games. This won't change that basic reasoning.
Queen_Herpes wrote:Seventh, (a fringe benefit of a fringe benefit) because it would be so much more difficult to start a new multi, it would be less likely that an account coming out of the same IP address is a real multi. PERCEIVED MULTIS, better said: multiple accounts in the same household owned by separate individuals, are accused of being multis and banned simply because they enter the site off of the same IP address. My husband and I are victims of this and were banned from playing together for a long time. The site will have to put less effort into multi-hunting and could potentially lean frequently towards accepting that more than one person in a home, a fraternity house, a dorm, a business, a webcafe, a public library, an airport, and/or a hotel could be playing on ConquerClub as separately owned accounts.
Again, I have no idea why you feel this would be true. You are making assumptions based on assumptions based on ideas that are unproven.
Queen_Herpes wrote:Eighth, (also ancillary and a fringe benefit) this will help to put damper on the activities of farmers. There have been quite a few players who have been restricted, banned, or otherwise for REAL FARMING by contacting new recruits and sucking them into complicated maps with complicated options. While farmers could still set game options that new players are allowed to play in, ConquerClub could also limit communication between new recruits and seasoned players. Farmers could also sit and wait until a player has unlocked all of the options; therefore, this wouldn’t “kill” farming.

Again, it seems you want to limit newbies playing old-timers. This does not seem to be about farming at all, not really. By limiting communication you are cutting off the very training potential you spoke of earlier. And, you are cutting off a big part of what makes CC the way it is.. people talking to people.
Queen_Herpes wrote:Ninth, (a fringe benefit of a fringe benefit) There have been quite a few players who have been restricted, banned, or otherwise for simply starting games on particular maps. This PERCEIVED FARMING is not actually farming and the players who have been punished for it were punished unfairly. To Farm, a player must actively seek out victims by posting on their wall or in the game chat, or sending a PM inviting the victim to join a game on a difficult map with difficult settings. Simply starting games on difficult maps is not farming. The site will have to put less effort into finding farmers and punishing them. The players who have been unfairly limited on the site can be allowed to freely roam the site. Fewer players will post complaints about the unfair punishment of players.

I agree with this, definitely. i can think of a couple of people I used to regularly count on to play a game of AOR2 , they regularly started 20 games or so. Then, poof, they disappeared. The definition of farming does need to change. However, it has nothing to do with your suggestion, not really.
Queen_Herpes wrote:Additional thoughts
This is an edit from a much broader and more comprehensive training program unlocking different aspects after every 5 completed games up to the 80th completed game.

Your Further Input on this Suggestion and Objections
Please Respond! Consider this suggestion to be fluid and putty-like. I am by no means stuck to the original suggestion and willing to hear all input!


Queen_Herpes wrote:Stats for postings on this topic:
Unique Opinions: (Total): Page1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35,
Unique posters in support: (36): 3, 2, 2, 3, 1, 2, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 6, 0, 0, 1
Unique off topic w/o opinion: (8): 2, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0,
Unique posters on the fence: (10): 2, 0, 1, 1, 2, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1,
Unique posters against: (17): 0, 3, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 2, 0, 1, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1,

Support from 36 members.
Posters against: 17.

sorry, but this data means nothing. The data set is far to limited to represent a true sample. Further, in a case like this, its not the majority view that really counts, its the best view. People who agree with the majority are mostly already here, staying. To get other people means looking beyond that basic core or simply advertising to more of the core. Either way, this data really does not say anything.
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby Queen_Herpes on Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:42 am

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Queen_Herpes wrote:
*Attempting to solve the problem of 372895 user accounts but only 19183 active members. (November, 2009) 5.144%
*Still attempting to solve the problem of 432102 user accounts but only 19679 active members. (June, 2010) 4.554%
*Still trying to solve the problem of 442051 users but only 19350 actives. (August, 2010) 4.377%
*Still striving to solve the problem of 505438 accounts, but only 21664 actives. (February, 2011) 4.286%

The numbers will almost always drop on a site such as this, because more people always come and go than stay. That is all your stats show, not an increasing problem with people leaving.


I see what you are getting at. However, if the site was more focused on retention, the retention rate would increase, not decrease. Since I originally posted the suggestion, there have been many more visitors to the site, many new memberships, yet of those new members, fewer members stuck around.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006

This link is the best way to make new players feel welcome...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby Queen_Herpes on Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:06 am

Player wrote:
Queen_Herpes wrote:
That said, CC is always looking for ways to improve.
In their first games, New Players (Noobs, Newbies, New Recruits) won't understand the complexities of the exceptional and varied maps and game options we enjoy on Conquer Club. The New Player is farmed, ignored by the system, and left to fend for himself/herself

This is just not true.
Every new player gets a message telling them about the Society of Cooks (SOC).

To-may-toes, To-mah-toes. Do they receive a PM about the SOC? Yes. Do I still believe that the new recruit is ignored by the system? Yes.
Player wrote:Furthermore, while there are some people taking advantage of new players, there are MANY people who take the time to help them. There is even, still a more general mentor program, though it has not been terribly active lately. I can see somehow encouraging more people to "be nice", but your suggestion does not seem to address that.

I'm not trying to affect what happens at SOC, I'm not trying to affect what happens in the mentoring program. I'm suggesting that the site build an automated system whereby the new recruit doesn't have to rely upon personal attention. The SOC and the mentoring program are great for teaching strategy. This system I'm suggesting has nothing to do with strategy, but everything to do with dealing with the little parts of learning the site and the game. Time better spent by a system rather than by individuals posting in threads over and over again to answer questions like: "What happens to owned spoils when you cash them in a nuclear spoils game?"

player wrote:
Queen_Herpes wrote: The likelihood that a new player will continue actively visiting ConquerClub under the current structure is not theoretically, but actually low. The purpose of this suggestion is to positively affect the retention rate by means of increasing user enjoyment. Some ancillary benefits are a by-product of this suggestion.
OK, you start here with a statement of fact "the likelihood that a new player will continue".."is low". However, you have not accurately addressed why this happens. The most basic reason is that a lot of people will come to any site like this, see it and just not stay. I don't know what the retention rate is for this site compared to others any longer, but I do recall seeing some statistics a while ago that indicated it was pretty comparable to other sites.

In other words, you have not really shown CC to have a recruitment problem.

I'm not saying that CC has a recruitment problem. I'm saying that CC has a retention problem. But that is semantics. 96% of people who take the time to create an account have never returned. My theory about why they do not return is that there is no systematic manner to teach the new recruit the basics.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006

This link is the best way to make new players feel welcome...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby Queen_Herpes on Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:36 am

Player wrote:
Queen_Herpes wrote:
The site does not contain enough information about Maps, Options, Gameplay and Strategy as Data on the site. While some comments and discussions contain information about strategy and the maps, there is a vacuum of hard data available to browsers or new players.
Agreed.

Some of this is already being fixed. There is an on-going project to make new strategy guides. They are still limited, but it takes time. The real problem, is that a lot of people don't want to spend the time reading these guides.

Exactly! Why make the new recruit read pages and pages of information? Certainly helpful for someone who has PLAYED the game. I say let them play, BUT limit what they can play. Give them a taste of each with perhaps a short PM that explains what they have unlocked.

Player wrote:Beyond that, I have said all along that I think we need maps categorized by play style -- broadly, those that are like classic, the railroad groups, those that use resource pairs, several that are just plain complicated... etc, etc.

However, your suggestion does not seem to fix these problems better or at all.


I chose to group the maps according to "levels of complication." Things like continent bonuses, resource pairs, one-way attacks, etc. This suggestion attempts to slowly release access to those maps that are more complicated over time. Have the system send a brief PM that explains what complications are in cluded in the new set of maps that were unlocked.

Player wrote:
Queen_Herpes wrote: This recommendation offers a reasonably achievable goal: participate in X games, unlock this cool thing; participate in X more games, unlock these other cool things; etc. A goal of this suggestion is to allow new Recruits to experience this great game with basic, beginner, understandable, game options that don’t give an unfair advantage to seasoned players.

This is where our long-standing disagreement begins. The REAL truth is there is no clear stair-step ladder to the various CC maps. I began with Age of Merchants and Coral Cairns. For a while, I did pretty well on those. Then Fuedal and AOR came along. They threw most people for a loop, but a lot of people have wound up enjoying them immensely. Now we have such a wide range of play styles the idea that any kind of a specific ladder such as you describe actually helping players to understand the maps just does not make any sense.

You started in one place, I started in a different place, that guy over there started in an even different place, but we all were limited and prevented from playing certain maps. None of us could play the maps that hadn't yet been developed, so we couldn't start there. The new recruits that join today are confronted with hundreds of maps and several settings whose funcationality is not readily apparent. Why not give new recruits these settings in a piecemeal fashion? We got to try the maps and settings in piecemeal form. I think new recruits should get that same benefit.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006

This link is the best way to make new players feel welcome...

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=102006
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby natty dread on Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:34 am

The new recruits that join today are confronted with hundreds of maps and several settings whose funcationality is not readily apparent. Why not give new recruits these settings in a piecemeal fashion? We got to try the maps and settings in piecemeal form. I think new recruits should get that same benefit.


Because you are not their mother, QH.

New players are not children, at least not all of them. They can make their own decisions.

Seriously: If you think they are not "ready" for some type of map on game 1, what makes you think they would be any more ready on game 5 or game 17?

It just doesn't make sense.
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby SirSebstar on Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:19 am

Considering they get no information now, and they can actually see the difference unlocked each time, i'd say it matter a lot and makes a lot of sense.
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby natty dread on Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:47 am

SirSebstar wrote:Considering they get no information now, and they can actually see the difference unlocked each time, i'd say it matter a lot and makes a lot of sense.


So why not offer the information to them, then allow them to make their own decisions, as to what they consider themselves ready to play? Why add more artificial restrictions?

When this suggestion was first posted, Andy said the following:

Andy DuFresne wrote:Lack also has a list of maps that are immediately viewable to New Recruits. Others they cannot view until they reach their promotion. I think every new map gets put on this list for a duration of time. Eventually Lack will go through the list, and shuffle maps out of those prohibited for New Recruits---and may add others in, if they seem to contribute to New Recruits leaving the website.

However, I don't know if gradually unlocking more things (and thus prohibiting more things) at other Ranks, is a model that Lack wants to pursue. There is a fine line between protecting your customers/possible customers, and inhibiting their enjoyment of the website.


I agree with it.
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby SirSebstar on Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:12 am

The reason that unlocking is appaeling to many persons, including me, is obvious. Equally i think there is a group that would like to see all now. The ulock all setting would accomplish that. At the end of going though the introduction it could be possible to get a medal, compare that to the current SoC.

The SoC would still have a function, but like now to those who would surf the boards..

The statement from Andy was more due to the original proposal. Considering that the suggestion now calls of the offswitch would render that statement more or less moot.

Alos, currently new reqruits cannot join certain settings, but they can make those games. wierd bug would you not say?
I have been unsure previously weather or not to allow all settings and maps to be viewable. Would this suggestion change anything to your point of view if it were indeed possible to see all maps and settings, even though you would not be able to play them right away without leaving the "protected state"? As previously stated its an eleboration on the currect noob protection state, but with more improvents to the mechanism, more and clearer information.

Doing it in stages has the advantage of giving out information in parts instead of as a whole, and to actuley give information that makes sense to people.

in all, its not so much inhibiting, but helping and entertaining. if you dont want to, you dont have to, but that that like to will find it benefitial
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:53 am

SirSebstar wrote:Considering they get no information now, and they can actually see the difference unlocked each time, i'd say it matter a lot and makes a lot of sense.

Information is one thing. Locking people out of games is something else.

I could see the benefit of offering better information on how to play maps. HOWEVER, this information is already here. Many of the people who complain don't bother reading. At some point, you cannot hand feed people. And, the idea that everyone needs to be cut off from playing the wide range of maps we have just because a few people cannot be bothered to make a couple of extra clicks does not make sense.
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Re: Limit New Recruits for 16 games, unlock settings and map

Postby mpjh on Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:59 am

I thought the major reason for locking certain maps and settings in the beginning was to combat farming and the bad experiences to which some new members got immediately exposure. It seems to have worked, so I would leave well enough alone.
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