Double Turns and Freestyle Turn Holding

[Koganosi]

Makes it more strategic. Know how freestyle works before you join any games, that's what I say.

Double turning isn't strategy. It is more ur lack of strategy, winning by it I think is the lowest you can do. Double turn to win a game. I think it is severe abuse. I dont see how it can ruin the site if double turns aint are possible anymore. It is just a lack of skill if u need it to win.

Urs

Koganosi.

[Artimis]

Makes it more strategic. Know how freestyle works before you join any games, that's what I say.

If double turns are so cool and such good strategy, then answer me this: Why was a turn delay implemented for the player that ends the round in a freestyle game in the first place?

[Koganosi]

Makes it more strategic. Know how freestyle works before you join any games, that's what I say.

If double turns are so cool and such good strategy, then answer me this: Why was a turn delay implemented for the player that ends the round in a freestyle game in the first place?

They dont dare to answer it XD.

Bump

Urs

Koganosi,

[ManBungalow]

Makes it more strategic. Know how freestyle works before you join any games, that's what I say.

Strategic farming really.

It sucks the fun out of any freestyle game to have effects such as the ones described here...

This thread would go quite well with my suggestion that your turn automatically ends after 10 minutes of inactivity (Clicky). This would mean that the freestyle abuser would have to wait around almost an hour moving 1 troop back and forwards (or have a robot do something).

[banana_hammocks]

Concise description:

• Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns by Eliminating the time out bug.

Specifics:

• Make starting your go count as taking your turn, in freestyle, even if you time out.
  At present if you start your go within the last hour of the game, make your moves, then let your time run out, it doesn't count as you taking your turn, and so you can start playing immediately after the start of the next round.
  
  By doing so you can play last, take all the objectives/bonuses in the last 5 minutes, without anyone being able to stop you then start first without anyone else having a go in between. This is being exploited by numerous members of the site (including King_Herpes on the City Mogul map (this is not a criticism against him as he is just exploiting a weakness of the site for his benefit and to the detriment of other players). Surely the players should have at least a chance of reacting.
  
  My suggestion is simple. All the changes to be made is that if you time out mid go, it should still count as you taking your go.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• Will make freestyle fairer and actually playable
• Removes the main criticism of freestyle play and the issue that drives players away from freestyle.
• Gives players a chance to react.

One example of the case i put is in this spoiler, where the loser had 1 seconds chance to deploy and take out the objective (that is if they were online at exactly when the turn ended):

show

[Joodoo]

so even if a player runs out of time, he/she has to wait for another player to begin turn before he/she can begin turn the next round?

[ManBungalow]

If you don't like freestyle, you don't have to play it. As much as I would like something like this to happen, I don't think it will.

[banana_hammocks]

so even if a player runs out of time, he/she has to wait for another player to begin turn before he/she can begin turn the next round?

Yes, or at least another player to start their turn (not necessarily finish).

If you don't like freestyle, you don't have to play it. As much as I would like something like this to happen, I don't think it will.

I don't think this argument is valid. It is not a question of preferences. It is a question of making something better.

This is like saying "if some people are using drugs in sport, let them...just don't play football."

[ManBungalow]

I don't think this argument is valid. It is not a question of preferences. It is a question of making something better.

This is like saying "if some people are using drugs in sport, let them...just don't play football."

In that case: learn to "abuse" it equally ! (Don't do drgus, kids)

[redhawk92]

freestyle is fine the way it is

[FredVIII]

i think ive suggested this before but oh, well i definitely agree with this in freestyle casual, not for freestyle speed

[Koganosi]

I have suggested this before and much others. Probably they will just look over it again. This is the only thing I hate about freestyle but I just try to life with it now and try to be online if I see someone tries to double turn me.

Urs

Koganosi,

[cicero]

Merge post:
Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns - posts 8 May 2008 to 14 January 2009 - first post here
Run out of time in freestyle-double games - posts from 8 to 28 February 2009 - first post here
Eliminate Freestyle Double Turns - posts 11 April 2009 - first post here

Please remember to use the 'search' box (it's next to the 'new topic' button) to see if there are existing discussions on a particular suggestion. That way, if you find an existing discussion, you can join in and also see any useful posts - both for and against - that might influence your own thinking. It also helps to keep the forum tidy

Cicero

[demonfork]

It's only technically a double turn if team 2 is not present to take their turn(s) as well when the clock flips.

Should it really be team 1's fault if team 2 decides to not show up to take their turn too?

It's not difficult to figure out when an opponent is going to attempt to take a "double turn", if you suspect that they are, show up and take your turn too, that's what I do. If you can't make it then you lack the dedication that it takes to be a good freestyle player and you should probably just stick to sequential.

[banana_hammocks]

It's only technically a double turn if team 2 is not present to take their turn(s) as well when the clock flips.

Should it really be team 1's fault if team 2 decides to not show up to take their turn too?

It's not difficult to figure out when an opponent is going to attempt to take a "double turn", if you suspect that they are, show up and take your turn too, that's what I do. If you can't make it then you lack the dedication that it takes to be a good freestyle player and you should probably just stick to sequential.

I'd love to see you try to break a bonus within 1 second of the previous round ending. It doesn't matter if you are there or not, there is no way you can do it.

[Bruceswar]

I'd love to see you try to break a bonus within 1 second of the previous round ending. It doesn't matter if you are there or not, there is no way you can do it.[/quote]


Incorrect. I have seen it done many times in speed fs doubles, etc. 1 second is rare, but 2 is really easy. If you are playing vs someone without CM they can kiss that bonus good bye.

[FredVIII]

Incorrect. I have seen it done many times in speed fs doubles, etc. 1 second is rare, but 2 is really easy. If you are playing vs someone without CM they can kiss that bonus good bye.

the fact still remains that you can take a bonus (or even the middle in mogul/oasis) and dont need to protect it because you can begin your turn straight away next round

[sully800]

This suggestion should definitely be implemented. The whole point of the time delay after ending a turn in freestyle was to make things more fair (and that was before Clickies and Objectives which seem to be the two biggest problems).

I believe the turn timing out logically should have been included as a form of ending your turn, and it was missed. And if it wasn't originally intended, then Objective maps clearly show that this is a problem that needs to be fixed. It's simple and will solve a lot of the abuse for points in freestyle.

[karelpietertje]

I believe the turn timing out logically should have been included as a form of ending your turn.

just a question: could anybody tell me what will happen when 2 people run out of time at the same time?
because if it will be like sully800 here states, wouldn't the Red player be in advantage (just like the Red player has a disadvantage when it comes to deadbeating in the same round as others)?
has anybody thought this through?

kp

[Artimis]

Can we have some admin/programmer input here, please? Just how difficult would it be to code in a switch to indicate turn activation and then treat a timeout in freestyle as ending a turn?

[banana_hammocks]

I believe the turn timing out logically should have been included as a form of ending your turn.

just a question: could anybody tell me what will happen when 2 people run out of time at the same time?
because if it will be like sully800 here states, wouldn't the Red player be in advantage (just like the Red player has a disadvantage when it comes to deadbeating in the same round as others)?
has anybody thought this through?

kp

Hmmm this is interesting i hadn't thought about this...If all players time out then i guess it will disadvantage the last player, for the same reason that it disadvantages the first player in deadbeatings.

This is because i think the game will see it as: (3 player example)
first red times out - ends his go
then: green times out
then: blue times out

so blue ended his go last....and so can't start the next round.

I feel this shouldn't be too much of a problem. It would be more of a problem if it meant that none of the 3 could start their go. (this would have to be checked out.

[cramill]

I think I suggested before: that if multiple people miss ending their turn they are all locked out. (For example a 4 player game - 2 players miss ending their turn and the round timer expires - both players who timed out would have to wait until someone else takes their turn to go, or until half the round goes by.) If everyone who is in the game miss ending their turn, they would all be locked out, but it shouldn't be hard to add something to check if everyone is locked out and if so, let everyone be able to go at the start of the next round.

Make sense?

[FredVIII]

I think I suggested before: that if multiple people miss ending their turn they are all locked out. (For example a 4 player game - 2 players miss ending their turn and the round timer expires - both players who timed out would have to wait until someone else takes their turn to go, or until half the round goes by.) If everyone who is in the game miss ending their turn, they would all be locked out, but it shouldn't be hard to add something to check if everyone is locked out and if so, let everyone be able to go at the start of the next round.

Make sense?

yes. i was about to write the same thing.

[Timminz]

I had never really thought of it before (since I don't play freestyle), but the addition of objectives has really emphasized one of the problems with freestyle. Even if this particular suggestion were implemented, the exploit would still be there. As long as someone can click "begin turn", as soon as another player starts, they'll still be using the same trick. It would just be slightly more time consuming.

[FredVIII]

I had never really thought of it before (since I don't play freestyle), but the addition of objectives has really emphasized one of the problems with freestyle. Even if this particular suggestion were implemented, the exploit would still be there. As long as someone can click "begin turn", as soon as another player starts, they'll still be using the same trick. It would just be slightly more time consuming.

guess how almost every casual freestyle city mogul and oasis games are won.