Germany Revamp

[ParadiceCity9]

I kinda like the way Germany is.

[Kaplowitz]

I kinda agree with DiM. I think revamps are great, but people like DiM should get the choice to switch back and forth.

[mibi]

each of us likes a map and is familiar with it and has history on it. once you revamp it all is lost.

big deal. if you are looking for permanence, then avoid the internet.

i'm not talking about permanence i'm talking about satisfied customers.

in case you missed it there were about 20 or so threads protesting against the canada revamp for example. those people were complaining because one of their favourite maps was changed for the worse. unhappy customers means less money less money means unhappy lack.

now would it have been that hard to keep the original canada and next to it a canada revamp? i doubt it would have been hard. in fact it would have meant just 5 minutes of uploading for lack. 5 minutes which would have made everybody happy. both those that like the new version and thse that like the old.

when pacman 3d (the video game) was released did a nasty guy come to my house tear my floppy of the ancient pacman and gave me a shiny cd with pacman 3d? no they simply made it and launched it for those that wanted a 3d version. no obligations and nobody forced me to play the new version and give up the old one.

and since we're talking about pacman let's look at wm's conquerman map. it's a map with feeling, the gfx make all the feeling for that map as well as the little animations. what if after 1 year some guy decides to change the graphics and get rid of all the pixelization and the strong colors and stuff like that. what if the new version is antialiased and pastelated? yes it will look better but it won't have any feeling. this is what happens to the revamps. they die. no matter how good the new version is it will never be able to replace the original.

uh.. what about when Lack updated to phpBB3 ... should everyone who has enamored with phpBB2 be able to switch back and forth? Should lack have to go out of it was to please a few stubborn hangers on?

There is a fine line between nostalgia (Pac man) and obsolescence (old ugly map). And the old canada map is obsolete due to the presence of something with much better graphics (gameplay being the same). You are welcome to disagree, but Lack isn't (and shouldn't) beholden to your neophobic minority.

But all this really much ado about nothing anyways.

[fireedud]

can I be the revamp artist, here is my rough draft:

[DiM]

each of us likes a map and is familiar with it and has history on it. once you revamp it all is lost.

big deal. if you are looking for permanence, then avoid the internet.

i'm not talking about permanence i'm talking about satisfied customers.

in case you missed it there were about 20 or so threads protesting against the canada revamp for example. those people were complaining because one of their favourite maps was changed for the worse. unhappy customers means less money less money means unhappy lack.

now would it have been that hard to keep the original canada and next to it a canada revamp? i doubt it would have been hard. in fact it would have meant just 5 minutes of uploading for lack. 5 minutes which would have made everybody happy. both those that like the new version and thse that like the old.

when pacman 3d (the video game) was released did a nasty guy come to my house tear my floppy of the ancient pacman and gave me a shiny cd with pacman 3d? no they simply made it and launched it for those that wanted a 3d version. no obligations and nobody forced me to play the new version and give up the old one.

and since we're talking about pacman let's look at wm's conquerman map. it's a map with feeling, the gfx make all the feeling for that map as well as the little animations. what if after 1 year some guy decides to change the graphics and get rid of all the pixelization and the strong colors and stuff like that. what if the new version is antialiased and pastelated? yes it will look better but it won't have any feeling. this is what happens to the revamps. they die. no matter how good the new version is it will never be able to replace the original.

uh.. what about when Lack updated to phpBB3 ... should everyone who has enamored with phpBB2 be able to switch back and forth? Should lack have to go out of it was to please a few stubborn hangers on?

There is a fine line between nostalgia (Pac man) and obsolescence (old ugly map). And the old canada map is obsolete due to the presence of something with much better graphics (gameplay being the same). You are welcome to disagree, but Lack isn't (and shouldn't) beholden to your neophobic minority.

But all this really much ado about nothing anyways.

i can guarantee that phpbb3.0 will make some people unhappy but it comes with so many advantages even the unhappy people will like it. plus the main difference is that you can't have 2.0 and 3.0 at the same time and switch as you please, whereas the original map and the revamped map can coexist with absolutely no problem.

and how do you decide what is obsolete and must be replaced and what is nostalgic and doesn't need to be?
and most of all why must you remove the old version when you can have both easily? i mean, the old files are still there lack just needs 5 minutes to activate them.

in reality nothing is simply lost it still exists for those that want it no matter how many new versions come out. why? simply because newer versions are different from the original and some might not like them.

if i come up with a new hip hop version of beethoven's moonlight sonata do you think the original will be automatically replaced and thrown away? clearly no. and i can assure you a hip hop version will probably be far more popular than the original, but still nobody would even dare replace it.

[rebelman]

outside of the dog poo i think germany looks fine

[insomniacdude]

Echoing my thoughts in the other thread about revamping classic: what could revamping Germany really provide for the map? This isn't like Brazil or (EESH) Montreal where the map was genuinely confusing for some players and looked unprofessional. Germany looks fine. It's no as pretty as the new batch fo maps that was just uploaded, but it doesn't need a revamp. I'd rather see all this talent be used to create new maps, instead of using it to "update" old maps that don't need it.

In other words, don't pull a George Lucas.

[mibi]

if i come up with a new hip hop version of beethoven's moonlight sonata do you think the original will be automatically replaced and thrown away? clearly no. and i can assure you a hip hop version will probably be far more popular than the original, but still nobody would even dare replace it.

your analogy just broke my computer screen.

[DiM]

if i come up with a new hip hop version of beethoven's moonlight sonata do you think the original will be automatically replaced and thrown away? clearly no. and i can assure you a hip hop version will probably be far more popular than the original, but still nobody would even dare replace it.

your analogy just broke my computer screen.

go buy a new one and then reply in a serious manner and stop that 3 word smart ass arrogant posting. ok?

[DiM]

In other words, don't pull a George Lucas.

very well said.

[fireedud]

can I be the revamp artist, here is my rough draft:

any comments?

[gimil]

fireedud if your not gonig to contribute decently, dont contribute at all.

[fireedud]

fireedud if your not gonig to contribute decently, dont contribute at all.

finee... be that way...


Anyway... I don't think germany is need of a revamp; I like it how it is right now.

[mibi]

if i come up with a new hip hop version of beethoven's moonlight sonata do you think the original will be automatically replaced and thrown away? clearly no. and i can assure you a hip hop version will probably be far more popular than the original, but still nobody would even dare replace it.

your analogy just broke my computer screen.

go buy a new one and then reply in a serious manner and stop that 3 word smart ass arrogant posting. ok?

its a bit hard to take you seriously when equate Hoff's germany map with Beethoven's moonlight sonata.

If you want to argue a debate point you first need to bring your analogies back into the first three dimensions.

[Coleman]

go buy a new one and then reply in a serious manner and stop that 3 word smart ass arrogant posting. ok?

very well said.

First off, funny.

Second off, lets stop this topic derailment with everybody carrying on this keep both maps stuff. If you want to pointlessly debate the whole replacing old maps thing start a new topic.

I say pointlessly because lackattack is never going to change his mind on this issue.

Anyone that responds to this post in this topic or any more posts on the subject of keep both maps and not on the subject of Germany being revamped is getting recommended for attention from a real mod for hijacking.

[DiM]

if i come up with a new hip hop version of beethoven's moonlight sonata do you think the original will be automatically replaced and thrown away? clearly no. and i can assure you a hip hop version will probably be far more popular than the original, but still nobody would even dare replace it.

your analogy just broke my computer screen.

go buy a new one and then reply in a serious manner and stop that 3 word smart ass arrogant posting. ok?

its a bit hard to take you seriously when equate Hoff's germany map with Beethoven's moonlight sonata.

If you want to argue a debate point you first need to bring your analogies back into the first three dimensions.

an example is just that. an example. take it as it is and debate it don't start arguing whether it's far stretched or not because that's pointless. in the PC thread you gave as example your cousin joe kill niggers. it's an absurd example but it's just an example.

[DiM]

Second off, lets stop this topic derailment with everybody carrying on this keep both maps stuff. If you want to pointlessly debate the whole replacing old maps thing start a new topic.

I say pointlessly because lackattack is never going to change his mind on this issue.

Anyone that responds to this post in this topic or any more posts on the subject of keep both maps and not on the subject of Germany being revamped is getting recommended for attention from a real mod for hijacking.

i just talked to lack on this double map original/revamp subject.

he is determined not to do it. why? i don't know. he says he wants things simple. i told him to put all the old maps in a separate categ. a really simple to do thing. no coding crap no fancy stuff just make the old files available. he doesn't want to. aside from the keeping it simple reason (which is bs imho) he gave me no valid reason. but since he's the owner i guess he makes the calls.


PS: NO germany revamp.

[Kaplowitz]

DiM, is there a way for you to write a grease monkey script that will switch the maps for you? That would probably make it easier for you.

[DiM]

DiM, is there a way for you to write a grease monkey script that will switch the maps for you? That would probably make it easier for you.

i have no idea how greasemonkey scripts are made or how they work but my bet is that's impossible because it's not just the image that needs to be changed, the xml has to be different.
so the script would have to override CC and grab the original xml and original image and show those instead of the new ones.

[mibi]

DiM, is there a way for you to write a grease monkey script that will switch the maps for you? That would probably make it easier for you.

i have no idea how greasemonkey scripts are made or how they work but my bet is that's impossible because it's not just the image that needs to be changed, the xml has to be different.
so the script would have to override CC and grab the original xml and original image and show those instead of the new ones.

a revamp could maintain existing xml as long as the positions stayed the same.

[suggs]

Leave well alone. The Germany map is class, simple but interesting.
Dont change it.

[mibi]

Leave well alone. The Germany map is class, simple but interesting.
Dont change it.

actually is ugly as sin, amateurish, and wouldn't even come close to making through the foundry with current standards.

[yeti_c]

DiM, is there a way for you to write a grease monkey script that will switch the maps for you? That would probably make it easier for you.

i have no idea how greasemonkey scripts are made or how they work but my bet is that's impossible because it's not just the image that needs to be changed, the xml has to be different.
so the script would have to override CC and grab the original xml and original image and show those instead of the new ones.

This isn't possible - the numbers on the map are generated by the server and are returned as an image that is overlaid the map - so the armies would be in the wrong place...

All the other stuff would be easily doable IF the old files are in the maps directoy.

C.

[WidowMakers]

OK everyoen look at it this way.

Lack has a site. It is his site. He wants new people to come in and see the pretty maps and pay to play them. While we might like some of the history and memories of the older maps, new people will not share that. If they have never played a game here and they see the old and the new, the new will win. Why? Because the new maps will always play the same and they will always look better from a pure artistic perspective. The foundry process has changed and does nt allow maps of such low quality to make it through.

You may still not agree with

"new maps will always play the same and they will always look better from a pure artistic perspective"

but ask anyone which map looks better, don't tell them anything about the history or the artist or anything. Just print off both maps and ask the simple question
Which map looks better?

Try to step back and look at it from an outside perspective. If you have never played on CC before which map would you like to see.
Old or New Indochina?
Old or New Middle East?
Old or New Montreal?
Old or New British Isles?

Old or New Brazil??? wait one minute!!!
There is a reason this map has not been quenched. It has not met the steps that the community feels are necessary to improve the feel and graphics of the map.

That is what lack wants. Improved Graphics. He wants eye popping great graphics to attract new players. It is not about history, it is about getting new players.

WM

[Lone.prophet]

old middle east and old british isles

with the others the revamp is better