foundry process revamp

[Wisse]

andy i have 2 questions for you,
1) are there gonna be more foundry mods in the future (like cairns and coleman?) cause i think they are doing a great job and if more good mods will be there i think it would only get better
2) the beta version of the new xml doesn't work

Yeti_c answered your second question.


As for the first question, we'll have to see. But one must always remember, more isn't always better. It'd be much harder to communicate with a larger number of people, spaced throughout the world, with varying schedules and time. Too many more, and it might actually hamper everything.


--Andy

ok

[rebelman]

do you have to play games to be a map designer, a buddy of mine whos a graphic designer 9and fairly good at it) was looking through the foundry threads with me and would happily make a stab at creating some maps but as he hates games he has no interest in playing is this possible ??

[Wisse]

do you have to play games to be a map designer, a buddy of mine whos a graphic designer 9and fairly good at it) was looking through the foundry threads with me and would happily make a stab at creating some maps but as he hates games he has no interest in playing is this possible ??

nope you don't but you do have to make an account

[gimil]

Looking good Gimil. Mind posting images with the XML on them, just to make sure nothing has changed? Also mind providing TEXT links to the XML, and small and large map?


--Andy

its now te 21st of September and portugal is still in development becasue of stupid little requests

[AndyDufresne]

From that point on, some suggestions and critiques came up. They may not have been drastically altering, but there were some valid suggestions.


--Andy

[gimil]

From that point on, some suggestions and critiques came up. They may not have been drastically altering, but there were some valid suggestions.


--Andy

made by a moderator who waited 4 days before any commenting? 1 suggestion was to move terr names that KEYOGI identiyed (while making the suggestion) didnt have the space to be moved. His other suggestion was to remove the army circles.

These types of pointlss suggestions are exactly what destroys a cartographers motivation. I wait 4 days and think when i see KEYOGI posting that my maps quenched. Now i need to make changes and again wait for "an appropriate amount of time".

[AndyDufresne]

The lag in commenting was most likely due to Keyogi getting ready for his leave. He had increasingly less time for the Foundry with his job picking up. I think you, and a few other maps, unfortunately got stuck in Limbo while he was making his leave, and I was trying to find replacements. I was focusing my energy on that aspect of the Foundry, as I figured in the Long Run it'd be more beneficial to everyone to get new C.A.'s sorted out first.

But like I mentioned, after Keyogi's post, came some valid suggestions.

Hope that clears up a little of the situation.


--Andy

[Wisse]

From that point on, some suggestions and critiques came up. They may not have been drastically altering, but there were some valid suggestions.


--Andy

made by a moderator who waited 4 days before any commenting? 1 suggestion was to move terr names that KEYOGI identiyed (while making the suggestion) didnt have the space to be moved. His other suggestion was to remove the army circles.

These types of pointlss suggestions are exactly what destroys a cartographers motivation. I wait 4 days and think when i see KEYOGI posting that my maps quenched. Now i need to make changes and again wait for "an appropriate amount of time".

gimil next time read andys whole post

[Qwert]

I must say that present situation in Final forge is very strange,its look that Andy have only time for cairnswick map and rest map just siting and no progres.
I just not understand how cairnswick map go faster then mibi D-Day?
Double Standard?
I waith 10 days to get Andys reply,and when i see that hes come back and hes first priority is to quench Cairnswick map who been in final forge from 30 avgust to 21 september,and Mine map is in Final forge from 5 august and still not quenched,also Mibi map is in final forge to long.
These is not good work,because some people will start thinking that some map authors have some big privilege,and some map authors is in ignoring stage from Andy.
Again i put same question its these a double standard or what?

[Coleman]

Well I'm saying this without clearing it with anyone so hopefully lack or Andy won't hurt me. qwert, we have been internally discussing (fighting might be a better word, horrific, terrible, violent debates) about something you do graphically with the territory borders. There are some that feel that your maps shouldn't be quenched unless it is addressed and others that feel that your borders are fine. We think in the foundry this debate would spiral into another 150 page monster of pain and lamentation, so we've been arguing internally first.

A solution has been arrived at but we are still debating how to present it. I can't honestly give you a time frame. I'm sorry it feels like we've been ignoring you, the truth is you're almost all we've been talking about the past week. We want to be able to give you the best feedback possible and we aren't quite ready yet. I love your maps myself, I am hoping you can be patient just a little while longer for us.

[Wisse]

I must say that present situation in Final forge is very strange,its look that Andy have only time for cairnswick map and rest map just siting and no progres.
I just not understand how cairnswick map go faster then mibi D-Day?
Double Standard?
I waith 10 days to get Andys reply,and when i see that hes come back and hes first priority is to quench Cairnswick map who been in final forge from 30 avgust to 21 september,and Mine map is in Final forge from 5 august and still not quenched,also Mibi map is in final forge to long.
These is not good work,because some people will start thinking that some map authors have some big privilege,and some map authors is in ignoring stage from Andy.
Again i put same question its these a double standard or what?

i am sure they spent time on your map, maybe even more as other maps (as coleman says here above to)

[Elijah S]

DiM... THANK YOU for starting this thread!

I'm new here in the foundry, and while I'll fully admit I have much to learn about the ins and outs of creating a map, I'm not completely without graphic design experience.

While I've received a great deal of help from the mods, I too feel like there's a proper way to discuss things and a need for mutual respect...

I've put probably 100 or more hours into my map only to have Andy appear, after about 3 weeks of revising it per cairnswk, and now have a sizeable list of proposed changes from him...
I can handle making improvements, but it's very frustrating to change things that have already been altered to suit a different mod...

It would be different if this were something we were being compensated to do, or getting some royalty from. But we all make our maps for the feeling of acheivement of creating something from start to finish.

I also get the impression that the only way to get a map through the process is to basically make all changes requested by the mods, which, in my opinion, leaves little room for projecting any real degree of personal style.

The experience I've had here in the foundry has not only taken the wind from my sails but left a somewhat different impression of CC in general.

[gimil]

DiM... THANK YOU for starting this thread!

I'm new here in the foundry, and while I'll fully admit I have much to learn about the ins and outs of creating a map, I'm not completely without graphic design experience.

While I've received a great deal of help from the mods, I too feel like there's a proper way to discuss things and a need for mutual respect...

I've put probably 100 or more hours into my map only to have Andy appear, after about 3 weeks of revising it per cairnswk, and now have a sizeable list of proposed changes from him...
I can handle making improvements, but it's very frustrating to change things that have already been altered to suit a different mod...

It would be different if this were something we were being compensated to do, or getting some royalty from. But we all make our maps for the feeling of acheivement of creating something from start to finish.

I also get the impression that the only way to get a map through the process is to basically make all changes requested by the mods, which, in my opinion, leaves little room for projecting any real degree of personal style.

The experience I've had here in the foundry has not only taken the wind from my sails but left a somewhat different impression of CC in general.

what you need to remeber Elijah S is that you NEVER need to do what the mods ask for. They are here to moderate the foundry not dictate. Basically hte most important thing to remeber is that there opinion is just as important as any other meber of the foundry and should be treated as so. In the case that there is a situation where a mod power trips or they use there authority to get what they want then the foundry regulars have been known to band together to put things right.

mainly DiM but the rest like to tag along

[mibi]

The experience I've had here in the foundry has not only taken the wind from my sails but left a somewhat different impression of CC in general.

welcome to the club...














...the Conquer Club.

[Coleman]

what you need to remeber Elijah S is that you NEVER need to do what the mods ask for. They are here to moderate the foundry not dictate. Basically hte most important thing to remeber is that there opinion is just as important as any other meber of the foundry and should be treated as so. In the case that there is a situation where a mod power trips or they use there authority to get what they want then the foundry regulars have been known to band together to put things right.

mainly DiM but the rest like to tag along

This is 500% true. If you can come up with logical reasons as to why you can refute moderator suggestions just like you can anyone else's. Unless it is a big deal to them they probably won't try to counter.

[gimil]

what you need to remeber Elijah S is that you NEVER need to do what the mods ask for. They are here to moderate the foundry not dictate. Basically hte most important thing to remeber is that there opinion is just as important as any other meber of the foundry and should be treated as so. In the case that there is a situation where a mod power trips or they use there authority to get what they want then the foundry regulars have been known to band together to put things right.

mainly DiM but the rest like to tag along

This is 500% true. If you can come up with logical reasons as to why you can refute moderator suggestions just like you can anyone else's. Unless it is a big deal to them they probably won't try to counter.

i think i might did out some of the old examples

when the foundry would crush KEYOGI's grip

[Aerial Attack]

one other thing i noticed is when a map maker posts the images and then the xml link. and after that andy comes and asks for the links to the images.

I think that a solution to the links for XML and Images issue is that the mapmaker ALWAYS update the Original Post with each new Version of their map (keeping at least the n-1 version for comparison as well).

This way the Images and XML links (text too) can be in the same place for every map - the mods don't have to search through pages of the thread for the links. They can just go to the first post and see it there.

[Molacole]

I also believe map makers have had a harder time since Keyogi was made moderator. This however may be because he has been ordered to by the powers that be or it could just be his personal style!!

good, I'm not the only one who's noticed how the map foundry has gone downhill since...

[Molacole]

DiM... THANK YOU for starting this thread!

I'm new here in the foundry, and while I'll fully admit I have much to learn about the ins and outs of creating a map, I'm not completely without graphic design experience.

While I've received a great deal of help from the mods, I too feel like there's a proper way to discuss things and a need for mutual respect...

I've put probably 100 or more hours into my map only to have Andy appear, after about 3 weeks of revising it per cairnswk, and now have a sizeable list of proposed changes from him...
I can handle making improvements, but it's very frustrating to change things that have already been altered to suit a different mod...

It would be different if this were something we were being compensated to do, or getting some royalty from. But we all make our maps for the feeling of acheivement of creating something from start to finish.

I also get the impression that the only way to get a map through the process is to basically make all changes requested by the mods, which, in my opinion, leaves little room for projecting any real degree of personal style.

The experience I've had here in the foundry has not only taken the wind from my sails but left a somewhat different impression of CC in general.

what you need to remeber Elijah S is that you NEVER need to do what the mods ask for. They are here to moderate the foundry not dictate. Basically hte most important thing to remeber is that there opinion is just as important as any other meber of the foundry and should be treated as so. In the case that there is a situation where a mod power trips or they use there authority to get what they want then the foundry regulars have been known to band together to put things right.

mainly DiM but the rest like to tag along

yeah and then how long does it take for a mod to visit that thread again? If you don't do what they request then you're looking at a minimum week of them ignoring your thread...

[Coleman]

yeah and then how long does it take for a mod to visit that thread again? If you don't do what they request then you're looking at a minimum week of them ignoring your thread...

I don't know how long you've been away but that is no longer the case.

[reverend_kyle]

the hired 2 new CA's who stop in ALOT more.

[Aerial Attack]

AndyDufresne wrote:

d. the map must have some honest and interested discussion. If no one seems to support your idea or it lacks much appeal, it most likely won’t make it to the next stage.

I have a question about this. How does one determine what the proper amount of discussion is? How does one determine if there truly is enough interest for a map to go forward?

For example, if Galactic Conquest (used because I am familiar with it's developmental process) gets moved into the Final Forge fairly soon - that would be a good thing as ApophisNL has put in a lot of work. But, how much interest does it really have? As far as I can tell, fewer than 10 people have said anything one way or the other [Optimus Prime (several), Marvaddin (1), Night Strike (4), unriggable (several), jako (3), mibi (1), Neutrino (1), Gnome (3), bryguy (1 - useless), and Aerial Attack (several)]. I didn't include ApophisNL or the Foundry mods (Coleman and cairnswk) - the number in quotes is how many comments they've made on the map. I realize that I've made a LOT of comments and might have dominated the conversation. But, we really have no idea how people will receive the map.

How many people need to vote on/post about a map to meet the standard mentioned above? I have no worries about the quality of this map, I'm just asking how interest is determined.

[Coleman]

I'm just asking how interest is determined.

Wish I had an answer. If it really just was two people that would definitely not be enough interest. As annoying as we find quench it crews and forge it crews it is a way of showing interest.

I'll ask Andy next time I see him.

[Aerial Attack]

I guess the current forum/sub-forum system is fine. It's just that if a map is on Vacation (i.e. map maker/community has not made comments or adjustments for 10+ days), there should be a vacation folder. There should also be an abandoned maps folder. I guess this is effectively what we have with the "dead" threads in the map foundry.

What I mean, is that if a map makes it from Map Ideas to Map Foundry (or even Final Forge) but is then put on vacation or abandoned - shouldn't it have to go through some sort of review process to figure out why it failed to go forward?

Obviously, something like SuperMax doesn't need further review as it's awaiting something on lack's end. But other maps, if someone old or new decides to comment on an abandoned or vacationing map - boom it's back to the top of the regular foundry heap.

All that to say the following: Is there a process in place to review why a map (or idea) was rejected, vacationed, or abandoned?

[AndyDufresne]

In regards to places for abandoned, vacation, etc maps...we'd like to avoid adding more sub-forums. But we do have the "Developmental Atlas" which does tell if you a map is on vacation, abandoned, in FF, or normal development. I think too many people don't care to look, as it really does solve some of these problems.

As to what constitutes "honest and interested discussion..."

Usually I see it as people (I can pick an arbitrary number here, but basically it comes down to more than a handful of people) posting and responding to the thread. The phrase is more of a safety net, to thin the herd of maps that don't have real support or interest.

Did I answer the question?


--Andy