[Vacation] Allegheny Forest,PA,USA. [I]

[rocky mountain]

great job seamusk!!! congrats!

the map just got way larger.... i know why though i was just commenting. its fine
i agree with people actually about the signs. i especially don't like the ones in clarion river and tionesta creek... my favorite ones are probably alleghany river and S. Br. Tionesta
i kinda agree that you should change the texture of the private lands.
now it looks like there is desert outside of the forest...
the trail in the southern private land looks different...
the double territory watershed things (what exactly are they called again?) look better (the actual territories, not the signs, but they look good too) but the one between tionesta and alleghany looks kinda wierd because of the drop shadow.
the borders look quite sketchy, but i'm assuming thats the look you're going for.
in millstone creek, there are two townships right next to each other. it looks kindof confusing... maybe make all the village townships look different from the city townships?
what exactly are watersheds? its about the map, but i'm just curious.

thats all for now. again great job on making it to the foundry!!!

[seamusk]

great job seamusk!!! congrats!

Thanks! As always great comments as well.

i agree with people actually about the signs. i especially don't like the ones in clarion river and tionesta creek... my favorite ones are probably alleghany river and S. Br. Tionesta

OK. I have a couple of questions then. Do you think that if I replaced those two signs that it would look ok? Do you think I should go to a single symbol for all territories? I also like those two signs. It is challenging with so many continents of course.

i kinda agree that you should change the texture of the private lands.

ok. I will tool around with it.

now it looks like there is desert outside of the forest...

oh, ignore that. When I increased the map size I didn't adjust the trees which covered that before. I had brown for soil look. Not that that is the texture I wasultimately going for because it wasn't.

the trail in the southern private land looks different...

It may be different. I'll take a look at it. I have an affect on the trail, but there were a couple of bits that might have gotten missed as they started on multiple layers.

the double territory watershed things (what exactly are they called again?) look better (the actual territories, not the signs, but they look good too) but the one between tionesta and alleghany looks kinda wierd because of the drop shadow.

There isn't a name for them. I wish I had a name for them. Something that was self-explanatory like dual-watershed territories or something. That isn't drop shadow. There is a gap between each continent when you bevel it as much as I did. I filled that gap with shades of the continents that meet.

the borders look quite sketchy, but i'm assuming thats the look you're going for.

No its not actually. I mean, a natural look would be cool but yeah...

in millstone creek, there are two townships right next to each other. it looks kindof confusing... maybe make all the village townships look different from the city townships?

hmm. What about labeling the city townships cT and village townships vT?

what exactly are watersheds? its about the map, but i'm just curious.

Good question. A watershed includes all of the water for a single stream or river or creek. So, the Millstone Creek watershed beings with the smaller unnamed seeps and springs and streams that feed into Millstone Creek. Everything flows downstream so a small watershed is also part of a larger watershed. Millstone Creek is technically part of the Clarion River Watershed. The Clarion River Watershed is part of the Allegheny River Watershed (which it unloads into about 20 miles downstream of the forest). So if a pollutant is dumped into a small stream in the Millstone Creek watershed, that pollutant will flow downstream until it becomes diluted or pollutes downstream watersheds (the Clarion River in this case).

Also, technically Above the Dam is not a separate watershed. it is the Allegheny River. However, ecologically the two areas are viewed very differently. Especially since there are two endangered species of mussel that live in the river below the dam. What flows "unimpounded" (aka not through dam) into the lower part of the river is of critical concern.

[conquerAce]

congratz on making it to this point... i know you've been working hard at it...

now some thoughts... since the impassable terts are private land did you ever float the idea of putting up fences? I thought that it might make sense and this way you can make the color more subtle.

[seamusk]

congratz on making it to this point... i know you've been working hard at it...

now some thoughts... since the impassable terts are private land did you ever float the idea of putting up fences? I thought that it might make sense and this way you can make the color more subtle.

Thanks mate. And damn good idea. Sometimes the simplest ideas....

[dittoeevee8888]

Okay, the blending is a bit better, but the part that troubles me most is the Tionesta Township. Especially with no border lines, in the larger map, it looks like 2 territories. Maybe a territory boarder might help that a bit, not sure.

I also dislike the red "unpassables", they really look out of place against the greens, blues and browns that most of the territory colours are made out of. Probably a lake? or something thats not as strong might help that.

Territory signs are okay, but I really dislike the whole "township" idea. I think it's kind of pointless as most of the townships and/or villages can only attack one territory in the first place. I think that Marienville and Sheffield might be the exceptions, but only a bit of the cities touch another territory. I think you could just get rid of townships all together.

Also, congrats on making it this far!

[seamusk]

Okay, the blending is a bit better, but the part that troubles me most is the Tionesta Township. Especially with no border lines, in the larger map, it looks like 2 territories. Maybe a territory boarder might help that a bit, not sure.

do you mean because there are no territory lines along the rivers?

I also dislike the red "unpassables", they really look out of place against the greens, blues and browns that most of the territory colours are made out of. Probably a lake? or something thats not as strong might help that.

Well, a lake would bend reality a bit too much. But I have some ideas now...

Territory signs are okay, but I really dislike the whole "township" idea. I think it's kind of pointless as most of the townships and/or villages can only attack one territory in the first place. I think that Marienville and Sheffield might be the exceptions, but only a bit of the cities touch another territory. I think you could just get rid of townships all together.

I could just get rid of them if folks think it is clear enough what attacks what. Thanks for the feedback!

[AndyDufresne]

Only another year in the Main Foundry, and then an additional year in Final Forge, and you'll be set. Good luck!


--Andy

[dittoeevee8888]

Okay, the blending is a bit better, but the part that troubles me most is the Tionesta Township. Especially with no border lines, in the larger map, it looks like 2 territories. Maybe a territory boarder might help that a bit, not sure.

do you mean because there are no territory lines along the rivers?

Basically, as well as the fact that it looks like as if there is a faint line between the two watersheds, that you can see in the larger map.

[rocky mountain]

Only another year in the Main Foundry, and then an additional year in Final Forge, and you'll be set. Good luck!


--Andy

why do you think it will take that long??? it only spent a month in map ideas...

[seamusk]

Latest Map Update. This update includes redrawn territories, redrawn hiking trail, cleaned up continents, modified background, replacement of territory signs in Tionesta and Clarion River watersheds, removal of "townships", renumbering of territories, and a few other minor modifications.

Version 2.5 Map - June 22, 2008
[bigimg]http://www.blysonhill.net/zccmapfiles/adp_conquerclub_v2_5.jpg[/bigimg]

[AndyDufresne]

Sometimes it is helpful to attach to an update: "Points for discussion" or things you'd specifically like to request feedback on. Just a thought.


--Andy

[dittoeevee8888]

The green that has replaced the red private lands looks a lot better. It still looks odd to me though, especially the river from Buckaloons to Warren. It kind of looks as if the river is either coming from nowhere, or floating on the background. Probably changing the areas a different shade could help that.

Hiking path looks a little weird...but it still looks better than the footpath before. Probably looks either too dark for me, or just simply "out of place" amongst the other colours.

I see a bit of colour leaking out of Spring Creek 4 towards Clarion River 2, as well as Tionesta Creek 6 to the private lands.

Also, the way the river ends by Ridgeway looks odd...simply because it just suddenly ends there...Also, I do wonder why there is different numbers inside the "territories that share two watersheds" symbol.

but great update...blending looks a lot better, especially in the Tunungwant Cr/Above Dam territory mix. The one near Sheffield looks pretty good too. Tionesta no longer has a problem, though the one that's really bugging me now is the Millstone Creek/Spring Creek one. It looks as if there is a line seriously seperating the two...as well as Spring Creek/Clarion River.

One more thing...is it just me or is the legend for spring creek and the actual territories of spring creek that have different colours of background?

[seamusk]

The green that has replaced the red private lands looks a lot better. It still looks odd to me though, especially the river from Buckaloons to Warren. It kind of looks as if the river is either coming from nowhere, or floating on the background. Probably changing the areas a different shade could help that.

Do you mean the privte land areas? I could try that. The rivers look odd when isolated I think.

Hiking path looks a little weird...but it still looks better than the footpath before. Probably looks either too dark for me, or just simply "out of place" amongst the other colours.

I thought I'd see what folks thought. What if I made it thinner? I was thinking that might help. Or I could change the color.

I see a bit of colour leaking out of Spring Creek 4 towards Clarion River 2, as well as Tionesta Creek 6 to the private lands.

good eye! I just noticed some random orange down there by Clarion River 1 too.

Also, the way the river ends by Ridgeway looks odd...simply because it just suddenly ends there...Also, I do wonder why there is different numbers inside the "territories that share two watersheds" symbol.

Maybe if I stop the river at the forest boundary? As for the territories that share watersheds, those are territory numbers. Does this need something in the legend?

but great update...blending looks a lot better, especially in the Tunungwant Cr/Above Dam territory mix. The one near Sheffield looks pretty good too. Tionesta no longer has a problem, though the one that's really bugging me now is the Millstone Creek/Spring Creek one. It looks as if there is a line seriously seperating the two...as well as Spring Creek/Clarion River.

One more thing...is it just me or is the legend for spring creek and the actual territories of spring creek that have different colours of background?

I think the issue with Spring Creek is related to its color in part but also to the fact that I accidentally deleted the original layer some time ago and obviously haven't properly replaced. I've kind of ignored those anomalies but I gotta do something about them. The legend can also be explained by this.

Thanks for the great comments ditto!

[WidowMakers]

I don't mean to be negative but...

Have you looked at the small version? What you are showing right now is very detailed and complex. I can see there being an issue in making it 25% smaller. I would hate to have you spend so much time and then not be able to make the small work out and need to change everything.

WM

[seamusk]

I don't mean to be negative but...

Have you looked at the small version? What you are showing right now is very detailed and complex. I can see there being an issue in making it 25% smaller. I would hate to have you spend so much time and then not be able to make the small work out and need to change everything.

WM

yes. multiple drafts of the small map have been produced at different times.

[WidowMakers]

I don't mean to be negative but...

Have you looked at the small version? What you are showing right now is very detailed and complex. I can see there being an issue in making it 25% smaller. I would hate to have you spend so much time and then not be able to make the small work out and need to change everything.

WM

yes. multiple drafts of the small map have been produced at different times.

Cool. I am glad it is working out.

WM

[rocky mountain]

wow. major graphics change... i like it though
the background is nicer now but the private lands should be a different colour like he said.
can tionesta/W. Br. Tionesta 8 attack W. Br. Tionesta 7? its hard to tell...
i think the trail looks fine, but it does need to change colour.
i'm not sure why, but it seems like this map went from somewhat realistic to cartooney... it fine though...
i pretty much agree with what everyone else said.
looking better all the time.

[Daviedoo]

ive been playing on one of the games and find the map quite managable, no real problems with borders, moves are staightforward, bonuses seem ok too, would have to play a few games to get a good strategy from different drops but that means it has the makings of a really good map.

[seamusk]

wow. major graphics change... i like it though
the background is nicer now but the private lands should be a different colour like he said.

Will do. gotta decide on what though...

can tionesta/W. Br. Tionesta 8 attack W. Br. Tionesta 7? its hard to tell...

No. I fixed this late last night after reading it. It was hard to tell.

i think the trail looks fine, but it does need to change colour.

ok. any color suggestions? I'll try out a few different ones...

i'm not sure why, but it seems like this map went from somewhat realistic to cartooney... it fine though...
i pretty much agree with what everyone else said.
looking better all the time.

thanks mate. Yeah, not sure why it seems to have gone that way. But if it works its all good.

ive been playing on one of the games and find the map quite managable, no real problems with borders, moves are staightforward, bonuses seem ok too, would have to play a few games to get a good strategy from different drops but that means it has the makings of a really good map.

Thanks for the post Davie! Thanks for playing the test game. The test games have been huge. I'm also getting some feedback via pm from test gamers. I'll post summary within a day or so...

[dittoeevee8888]

The green that has replaced the red private lands looks a lot better. It still looks odd to me though, especially the river from Buckaloons to Warren. It kind of looks as if the river is either coming from nowhere, or floating on the background. Probably changing the areas a different shade could help that.

Do you mean the privte land areas? I could try that. The rivers look odd when isolated I think.

Yeah...It kind of looks like holes on the map

Hiking path looks a little weird...but it still looks better than the footpath before. Probably looks either too dark for me, or just simply "out of place" amongst the other colours.

I thought I'd see what folks thought. What if I made it thinner? I was thinking that might help. Or I could change the color.

I think they'd both help. Really though, I think the colour is too strong.

I see a bit of colour leaking out of Spring Creek 4 towards Clarion River 2, as well as Tionesta Creek 6 to the private lands.

good eye! I just noticed some random orange down there by Clarion River 1 too.

Also, there is remnants of the cut from Belletown and Marienville (on left), a bit by tionesta creek 2, on the top of above the dam 6, top of Tunungwant Cr. 2 & 3, a little bit by clarion river 9, and a little bit underneath ridgeway.

Also, the way the river ends by Ridgeway looks odd...simply because it just suddenly ends there...Also, I do wonder why there is different numbers inside the "territories that share two watersheds" symbol.

Maybe if I stop the river at the forest boundary? As for the territories that share watersheds, those are territory numbers. Does this need something in the legend?

That might help...it's the only thing I can think of too, it'd definately look odd if it continued all the way towards the edge. The numbers could be explained in the legend, you still have that "T" that used to be Township explanation area.

Thanks for the great comments ditto!

No problem! Wanted to get involved in the foundry more so I can have a say in some of the maps that I *might* use in upcoming tournies.

[Blitzaholic]

is there an update?

[seamusk]

is there an update?

will be soon. There was one just the other day...

[oaktown]

Glad to see that this map is coming along, seamusk.

MrBenn will officially wield the Gameplay stamp for this project... you've probably noticed that my time has been limited as of late, and hopefully MrBenn can give this more attention than I've been able to. Of course, if you have any questions or would like feedback on a specific issue, I'm still available.

My first suggestion in looking at your latest draft is to keep in mind that "more" isn't always "better." Keep the number of rules and bonuses that the player has to follow down to a manageable level and the map will see more play after it's quenched.

[Androidz]

Wow nice m8 your last update really got the map more goodlooking:)

[seamusk]

Glad to see that this map is coming along, seamusk.

MrBenn will officially wield the Gameplay stamp for this project... you've probably noticed that my time has been limited as of late, and hopefully MrBenn can give this more attention than I've been able to. Of course, if you have any questions or would like feedback on a specific issue, I'm still available.

My first suggestion in looking at your latest draft is to keep in mind that "more" isn't always "better." Keep the number of rules and bonuses that the player has to follow down to a manageable level and the map will see more play after it's quenched.

Thanks Oaktown. There are a couple of gameplay shifts coming in the next update based on feedback from test games. Nothing too major but more intuitive I *think*.