Abortion

[Woodruff]

Right now, all of the options (except for the kittens one ♥) are all bias towards the negative pits of abortion.

"Abortion is abortion" isn't negative.

As for the rest...while I disagree personally, I can at least understand someone considering it homicide...though not murder except in certain circumstances. But slavery? I don't get it...who is the slave in this instance?

Rick Santorum argues that abortion a kind of/equal to/ as bad as slavery. Thoughts?

I'll add other options if you can argue for their presence.

I certainly understand why he would say that, but I don't agree.

Please explain it then, for those of us who are not insane enough to make the connection. Thanks.

What, beacuse It's impossible to understand an ideological opponents positions? I thought that was one of the first things you need to do before you can form your own? I understand his position, 100%. I don't understand your question or it's relation to insanity.

As much as I hate to , I have to agree with Phattscotty here. I absolutely don't agree with Santorum, but I do understand why he says it is akin to slavery. That is, I have heard the argument, comprehend it, but dismiss it as not relevant. The basic thrust is that slavery and abortion are both allowed because we do not classify those individuals as fully human. I reject this because while a black (or any other racial/ethnic group) is absolutely human, there is biological/scientific reason to say a very early fetus does not yet qualify. Those who believe differently do so for faith/religious reasons. However, we should note that some even consider sperm and unfertilized eggs "human" as well. Religion and science have different measures of evidence.

See Phatscotty...this is called EXPLAINING SOMETHING WHEN SOMEONE ASKS FOR AN EXPLANATION.

Thanks, PLAYER.

[PLAYER57832]

Federal funding is limited by the Hyde amendment.

Planned Parenthood.

Again, read the amendment. The exceptions include the situations you seem to feel are "not included". .. threatening the life of the mother, rape and incest.

If the root of the word is to remove a miscarriage (a fetus that is already dead), why is it now being used to justify the killing of a living fetus (one that has not been miscarried)?

You don't understand. Abortion = miscarriage. "Abortion" is the older term, the medical term. "Miscarriage" is a more modern euphamism.

And, as I said before, because the law does not currently identify life prior to 3 months, there is no distinction made in medical records. Numbers given are for procedures. Estimates of percentages that are elective are based largely on interviews and some specific studies of pregnancy problems.

And, I have said it before, but I will say it again, this is not just a "minor" matter nor is it I who am misunderstanding here.

[natty dread]

[BigBallinStalin]

JUST GIVE PEACE A CHANCE, GUISE

[Nobunaga]

... we should note that some even consider sperm and unfertilized eggs "human" as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47P59ha9k9s

[Symmetry]

... we should note that some even consider sperm and unfertilized eggs "human" as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47P59ha9k9s

Indeed, and there's a lot of Christian history condemning masturbation, based on Genesis 38 (I can't speak for other religious traditions). As far as I understand it, though, Onan was condemned to death by God for spilling his seed on the ground. I'm open to different interpretations of this passage if anyone cares to reply.

[radiojake]

Seeing as many have considered this topic as 'Murder: plain and simple' I thought I would add my two and half cents and add my own 'plain and simple' proposal:

If you are against abortion - Do not have an abortion - Easy, plain and simple

The point of this is that you should not worry about the life choices of other people that do not directly concern you.

[Mr_Adams]

So if I kill your friend, the police shouldn't worry, cuz it doesn't directly concern them.

[comic boy]

So if I kill your friend, the police shouldn't worry, cuz it doesn't directly concern them.

It would concern them because it would be illegal , abortion within proscribed limits is not, I trust I have cleared that up for you.

[natty dread]

So if I kill your friend, the police shouldn't worry, cuz it doesn't directly concern them.

Wow, you are good at twisting and reducing things ad absurdum.

[Woodruff]

So if I kill your friend, the police shouldn't worry, cuz it doesn't directly concern them.

That's not a logical argument, since it WOULD directly concern them given that IT'S THEIR SWORN DUTY to be concerned about it.

[PLAYER57832]

... we should note that some even consider sperm and unfertilized eggs "human" as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47P59ha9k9s

Indeed, and there's a lot of Christian history condemning masturbation, based on Genesis 38 (I can't speak for other religious traditions). As far as I understand it, though, Onan was condemned to death by God for spilling his seed on the ground. I'm open to different interpretations of this passage if anyone cares to reply.

If was wrong because it was against a direct command, that he impregate the lady in question, not because of a general prohibition.

[PLAYER57832]

So if I kill your friend, the police shouldn't worry, cuz it doesn't directly concern them.

Here is the crux, even with the best of medical care, there is still less than a 50% chance that a KNOWN pregnancy will result in a live child. This does not even count all the miscarriages that occur when a woman does not even realize she is pregnant - and believe me, within the first trimester there is not always much difference between that and a woman's normal cycle.

Some of those children who live will be so highly disabled they can only survive hooked up to dozens of machines. You might feel that constitutes a "real life", I might, but not everyone does. Not everyone even feels they have the right to intervene, seeing it as going against God to take such extreme measures just to ensure a child keeps breathing.

[Symmetry]

... we should note that some even consider sperm and unfertilized eggs "human" as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47P59ha9k9s

Indeed, and there's a lot of Christian history condemning masturbation, based on Genesis 38 (I can't speak for other religious traditions). As far as I understand it, though, Onan was condemned to death by God for spilling his seed on the ground. I'm open to different interpretations of this passage if anyone cares to reply.

If was wrong because it was against a direct command, that he impregate the lady in question, not because of a general prohibition.

Thanks- this made me look at the passage again. I tend to deal a lot with the reception of the Bible at various points in history, and sometimes I forget to just read the thing again.

[PLAYER57832]

Thanks- this made me look at the passage again. I tend to deal a lot with the reception of the Bible at various points in history, and sometimes I forget to just read the thing again.

A lot of people do cite it as reason for a basic prohibition, but I do not understand, have not been taught I should understand that passage that way.

[karel]

who cares,this should not be a law,the choice should be made by the person,and not by the federal goverment

[Phatscotty]

who cares,this should not be a law,the choice should be made by the person,and not by the federal goverment

The federal government, most unequivocally does not make the decision for any woman. wtf? Actually, the current issue is that our tax dollars are encouraging abortions.

Shit, I don't want to be punished wit no baby!

[Woodruff]

who cares,this should not be a law,the choice should be made by the person,and not by the federal goverment

The federal government, most unequivocally does not make the decision for any woman. wtf? Actually, the current issue is that our tax dollars are encouraging abortions.

Shit, I don't want to be punished wit no baby!

Whereas Phatscotty says..."PUNISH HER! IT'S WHAT SHE DESERVES FOR HER ACTIONS!".

[PLAYER57832]

who cares,this should not be a law,the choice should be made by the person,and not by the federal goverment

The federal government, most unequivocally does not make the decision for any woman. wtf? Actually, the current issue is that our tax dollars are encouraging abortions.

Federal funds are NOT USED EXCEPT in cases where the mother's life is in danger, there are mitigating sreious illness/injuries, rape, incest or the child is dead.

Government funds can be used for to help subsidize PRIVATE INSURANCE plans for lower income people that might cover abortion. Whether they do is generally covered by state law. Only some of the women buying these policies have abortions that do not fit within the above criteria The funds actually used for any abortion are very, very, very minimal.

Shit, I don't want to be punished wit no baby!

But you would force a child to live with a mother who does not want them. A fate that might well be worse than death.

[BigBallinStalin]

who cares,this should not be a law,the choice should be made by the person,and not by the federal goverment

The federal government, most unequivocally does not make the decision for any woman. wtf? Actually, the current issue is that our tax dollars are encouraging abortions.

Federal funds are NOT USED EXCEPT in cases where the mother's life is in danger, there are mitigating sreious illness/injuries, rape, incest or the child is dead.

Government funds can be used for to help subsidize PRIVATE INSURANCE plans for lower income people that might cover abortion. Whether they do is generally covered by state law. Only some of the women buying these policies have abortions that do not fit within the above criteria The funds actually used for any abortion are very, very, very minimal.

Shit, I don't want to be punished wit no baby!

But you would force a child to live with a mother who does not want them. A fate that might well be worse than death.

My stolen money goes to aborting babies from peoples' stupid decisions? Hah, we have to bail out even more stupidity!

They should just have charity fund for people who don't think things through. If you want to contribute to this safety net for the stupids, then please be my guest. If not, then good for you, buy yourself a refreshing beverage or some stocks.

[PLAYER57832]

who cares,this should not be a law,the choice should be made by the person,and not by the federal goverment

The federal government, most unequivocally does not make the decision for any woman. wtf? Actually, the current issue is that our tax dollars are encouraging abortions.

Federal funds are NOT USED EXCEPT in cases where the mother's life is in danger, there are mitigating sreious illness/injuries, rape, incest or the child is dead.

Government funds can be used for to help subsidize PRIVATE INSURANCE plans for lower income people that might cover abortion. Whether they do is generally covered by state law. Only some of the women buying these policies have abortions that do not fit within the above criteria The funds actually used for any abortion are very, very, very minimal.

Shit, I don't want to be punished wit no baby!

But you would force a child to live with a mother who does not want them. A fate that might well be worse than death.

Hah, we have to bail out even more stupidity!

They should just have charity fund for people who don't think things through. If you want to contribute to this safety net for the stupids, then please be my guest. If not, then good for you, buy yourself a refreshing beverage or some stocks.

How do you get from
"covered ONLY in the case of serious medical threat to the womans life, rape or incest"
To
this: "My stolen money goes to aborting babies from peoples' stupid decisions?"

[BigBallinStalin]

who cares,this should not be a law,the choice should be made by the person,and not by the federal goverment

The federal government, most unequivocally does not make the decision for any woman. wtf? Actually, the current issue is that our tax dollars are encouraging abortions.

Federal funds are NOT USED EXCEPT in cases where the mother's life is in danger, there are mitigating sreious illness/injuries, rape, incest or the child is dead.

Government funds can be used for to help subsidize PRIVATE INSURANCE plans for lower income people that might cover abortion. Whether they do is generally covered by state law. Only some of the women buying these policies have abortions that do not fit within the above criteria The funds actually used for any abortion are very, very, very minimal.

Shit, I don't want to be punished wit no baby!

But you would force a child to live with a mother who does not want them. A fate that might well be worse than death.

Hah, we have to bail out even more stupidity!

They should just have charity fund for people who don't think things through. If you want to contribute to this safety net for the stupids, then please be my guest. If not, then good for you, buy yourself a refreshing beverage or some stocks.

How do you get from
"covered ONLY in the case of serious medical threat to the womans life, rape or incest"
To
this: "My stolen money goes to aborting babies from peoples' stupid decisions?"

Government funds can be used for to help subsidize PRIVATE INSURANCE plans for lower income people that might cover abortion.

Government funds can be used for to help subsidize PRIVATE INSURANCE plans for lower income people that might cover abortion.

Government funds can be used for to help subsidize PRIVATE INSURANCE plans for lower income people that might cover abortion.

Government funds can be used for to help subsidize PRIVATE INSURANCE plans for lower income people that might cover abortion.

[PLAYER57832]

Government funds can be used for to help subsidize PRIVATE INSURANCE plans for lower income people that might cover abortion.

You forgot 2 tiny little pieces of information.

#1 we are talking about a VERY, VERY small amount of money that even might possibly go toward ANY abortions.

#2. the numbers of abortions charged to these policies "because someone screwed up" is absysmally small.

#3. If someone is getting a government subsidy for insurance, they are already a low income individual. That means their child will go onto taxpayer roles. You are prime among those wanting to cut costs... yet here, you want more kids on the dole?

I suppose you are also against paying for birth control?

[Mr_Adams]

stopping murder trumps paying down debt.

[PLAYER57832]

stopping murder trumps paying down debt.

Back to squre one:
And who gets to decide it IS murder?

THAT is the real question. Biology? YOUR religion? It's definitely not a matter of "common sense" unless you wish to discount everyone else's view except your own. And, we have a paradigm in the US that accepts individual freedoms regarding matters of disputed morality.

Even if I might agree with you on this issue, I do NOT want you able to decide everyone else's morality because it sends us down a very, very, very slippery slope.

I also don't want you deciding that you can dictate what kind of insurance policy I get (within the law), because again, if you can argue against payment for abortioin, the why can't Jehovah's witness declare we need to have independent payment for blood services?