European Union, soon to be superpower?

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TeletubbyPrince
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by TeletubbyPrince »

Nothing could've prepared me for the stupidity of this thread ](*,) Do you losers seriously believe that the Articles of confederation are anything like the EUs constitution? Do you even realise when the EU's contitution was made (hint: long after it was formed and irrelevant as far as your 'debate' goes)? The articles of confederation state that only the federal government may wield an army and obligate the states to support said army; the articles of confederation claims the USA as being a sovereign nation; the articles of confederation are only similar to the EUs constitution on the most basic level, yet you retarded apes persist in comparing the two.
You do realize that the global superpower (at present) is a union of federated states, right?
Uh, no. You are mistaken you slack jawed, half-witted neanderthal, the USA is a nation-state and the states that constitute it are comparable to the provinces of any other nation.
Nope. With about 500 million people and 27 countries, they're a mighty economic powerhouse (combined: #1), but they have yet the political will to unite in order to extend the EU's power into external affairs.

By ceding the responsibility of Europe's defense to NATO, which is under the guidance of the US, they make themselves heavily reliant upon the United States.

Even though the EU now has an EU president and foreign minister, seeing that the EU president is Herman von Rompuy, Merkel and Sarkozy can easily tell him to shut up, since they represent the two most populated and most influential countries of the EU. The EU president may just be great for photo opportunities, and that's more or less it.

The EU also has no unified military, nor do its people generally want such a thing. The citizens of the EU lack the enthusiasm for any foreign military excursion, which in my opinion is a good moral reason, but it will definitely hinder the EU's ability to become more than just a voice.

The EU members do not yet have the will to become a strong, united player on the international scene. Its countries are too divided on foreign affairs, and those countries' military forces all have different agendas with no supreme unifying commander.
Hey tough guy! I don't know if you heard, but conventional militarys' are quickly becoming obsolete. You're an ignorant American pig who thinks pouring trillions into fraudulent arms contractors is anything to be proud of. Enjoy being 30th in 'best healthcare/education/qualityoflife/etc.', atleast you'll have the highest military expidentures!
Can you call a union a superpower? I thought only nation-states could be superpowers (I guess there aren't hard and fast rules on this).
The USSR was called a superpower. I guess it's kinda confusing for you, since only 50% of superpowers have ever not been nation-states :cry: Don't worry, it's an easy fact to forget ;)
So if the EU is unwilling or incapable of projecting a unified economic, political, and militaristic power in international affairs, won't it have a hard time safeguarding its interests against rising economic and soon-to-be militaristic powers such as China?
What the hell kind of interests are you talking about? They kinda gave up their colonies awhile ago, if that's what you're talking about...
I dunno about your assumption that china will become more militaristic, if they do it will only be in response to US power which is far far greater. Look at how China has behaved in the last few decades they have consistently avoided confrontation with other powers. What was the last military conflict china's been involved in? the Korean war? maybe the war with india? China is much more concerned with getting along with other countries so they can sell stuff.
They've been involved in Korea and Vietnam. All powers have avoided confrontation with each other, so your point is freaking stupid. Btw, China frequently and arbitrarily changes it's laws, which generally scares away more business than necessary - so no they are not soley concerned with selling stuff.
China will become more militaristic, and that is not only due to US power. They've been for the past decade gearing their military towards one more like the United States,' and they've been planning on projecting power in order to defend their interests, much like in the same manner the US does; however, they'll probably achieve a worrisome power projection capability in about 30-50 years. Without a military, they couldn't defend their interests.
This isn't true, it's just the delusions of an angsty 13 year old (AKA you).
Simply not being involved in recent military conflicts doesn't refute the fact that China will become a major power competitor to US and EU interests further down the road.
Considering you have no evidence to support your claim either...
Also, China usually ranks as number 10 or 11 in exporter of armaments and is the number 1 recipient in arms exports, and those weapons are good enough evidence to say that China already has been become and eventually will be involved in military conflicts. And also the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission releases some very interesting materials that also support my claim.
Materials released by the Galactic Empire say otherwise. I'll cite my sources when you can cite yours :D

Well now that I've succeeded in thoroughly owning all the dumbasses of this forum in this single thread, I believe it may be closed. Good day :lol:
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by thegreekdog »

I wish you were Sultan, Tubster. He was a much more entertaining poster.
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by Snorri1234 »

TeletubbyPrince wrote:Nothing could've prepared me for the stupidity of this thread ](*,) Do you losers seriously believe that the Articles of confederation are anything like the EUs constitution? Do you even realise when the EU's contitution was made (hint: long after it was formed and irrelevant as far as your 'debate' goes)? The articles of confederation state that only the federal government may wield an army and obligate the states to support said army; the articles of confederation claims the USA as being a sovereign nation; the articles of confederation are only similar to the EUs constitution on the most basic level, yet you retarded apes persist in comparing the two.
Unless you don't actually know what a confederation is comparing the two is actually quite sensible. While the EU is not exactly a confederation it does have quite a few comparable features. Especially the freedom of movement and trade.

Most people are of the opinion that the EU is something not quite a confederation, but to say you can't compare it to one is just retarded.




Anyway, there's no EU constitution.
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Tubster:

First of all, let me pet you for being such an adamant little troll on the forums (*pet *pet *pet).
Hey tough guy! I don't know if you heard, but conventional militarys' are quickly becoming obsolete.
Conventional militarys' are becomignz obsoelite?!? So what's the future? GIANT MECH WARRIORS?! OMGZ!

Explain how the conventional militarys' are quickly becoming obsolete.
You're an ignorant American pig who thinks pouring trillions into fraudulent arms contractors is anything to be proud of.
Since when did I think this?
Enjoy being 30th in 'best healthcare/education/qualityoflife/etc.', atleast you'll have the highest military expidentures!
30th?! WHOA, where'd ya get that number?

http://www.prosperity.com/downloads/200 ... Report.pdf
That says otherwise. Also Canada's education ranks worse than the US. Are you one of Canada's kids who slipped through the cracks?

And, explain to me how China is a benign force that has no dream of interfering in the affairs of other nations.
Also, China usually ranks as number 10 or 11 in exporter of armaments and is the number 1 recipient in arms exports, and those weapons are good enough evidence to say that China already has been become and eventually will be involved in military conflicts. And also the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission releases some very interesting materials that also support my claim.
Tubster wrote:Materials released by the Galactic Empire say otherwise. I'll cite my sources when you can cite yours :D

Well now that I've succeeded in thoroughly owning all the dumbasses of this forum in this single thread, I believe it may be closed. Good day :lol:

Sources for armaments exports and recipients

(1) Top 5 suppliers by percentage from 2004-2008 along with other useful tidbits.
http://www.sipri.org/yearbook/2009/07/07A

Also, http://armstrade.sipri.org/armstrade/page/toplist.php, this provides you a top 5 to 100 list on suppliers or recipients of arms exports.

And your sources are....?
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by Snorri1234 »

BigBallinStalin wrote:Tubster:

First of all, let me pet you for being such an adamant little troll on the forums (*pet *pet *pet).
Hey tough guy! I don't know if you heard, but conventional militarys' are quickly becoming obsolete.
Conventional militarys' are becomignz obsoelite?!? So what's the future? GIANT MECH WARRIORS?! OMGZ!
That would be fucking awesome.
"Some motherfuckers are always trying to ice skate uphill."

Duane: You know what they say about love and war.
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by Phatscotty »

BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Nope. With about 500 million people and 27 countries, they're a mighty economic powerhouse (combined: #1), but they have yet the political will to unite in order to extend the EU's power into external affairs.

By ceding the responsibility of Europe's defense to NATO, which is under the guidance of the US, they make themselves heavily reliant upon the United States.

Even though the EU now has an EU president and foreign minister, seeing that the EU president is Herman von Rompuy, Merkel and Sarkozy can easily tell him to shut up, since they represent the two most populated and most influential countries of the EU. The EU president may just be great for photo opportunities, and that's more or less it.

The EU also has no unified military, nor do its people generally want such a thing. The citizens of the EU lack the enthusiasm for any foreign military excursion, which in my opinion is a good moral reason, but it will definitely hinder the EU's ability to become more than just a voice.

The EU members do not yet have the will to become a strong, united player on the international scene. Its countries are too divided on foreign affairs, and those countries' military forces all have different agendas with no supreme unifying commander.
I hear the leaders won't be elected, they are appointed. sounds like a yup so far to me
Wow, that's all that's needed to become a superpower? Great job, Phat, keep it coming.
hmmmm, well, along with that statement....obviously comes the recognition....that democracy is not included......

??????????????
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by CreepersWiener »

The EU definitely has the power, as some Oil has been trading in Euros since Saddam Hussein got the ball rolling after the Gulf War. The way I envision it is more of a Great Westernized Empire that includes the EU and the NAU working together against the rising threat (thanks to American intervention and provocations) in Iran and the Middle East. The Middle East is a conflict in which Europe should be very interested in, as it is by far closer to it than America is. If Iran begins a war in the Middle East and it spreads into Europe, the EU is going to need America, not only as a military hand, but as an industrious hand. We can make supplies for NATO way over here and send them to Europe to be used in their "war", whatever that war may be.
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:Nope. With about 500 million people and 27 countries, they're a mighty economic powerhouse (combined: #1), but they have yet the political will to unite in order to extend the EU's power into external affairs.

By ceding the responsibility of Europe's defense to NATO, which is under the guidance of the US, they make themselves heavily reliant upon the United States.

Even though the EU now has an EU president and foreign minister, seeing that the EU president is Herman von Rompuy, Merkel and Sarkozy can easily tell him to shut up, since they represent the two most populated and most influential countries of the EU. The EU president may just be great for photo opportunities, and that's more or less it.

The EU also has no unified military, nor do its people generally want such a thing. The citizens of the EU lack the enthusiasm for any foreign military excursion, which in my opinion is a good moral reason, but it will definitely hinder the EU's ability to become more than just a voice.

The EU members do not yet have the will to become a strong, united player on the international scene. Its countries are too divided on foreign affairs, and those countries' military forces all have different agendas with no supreme unifying commander.
I hear the leaders won't be elected, they are appointed. sounds like a yup so far to me
Wow, that's all that's needed to become a superpower? Great job, Phat, keep it coming.
hmmmm, well, along with that statement....obviously comes the recognition....that democracy is not included......

??????????????
Even though he EU President and Foreign Affairs minister are appointed by the leaders of those countries, there's much more required before the EU can even be close to being considered a superpower.
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by Titanic »

CreepersWiener wrote:The EU definitely has the power, as some Oil has been trading in Euros since Saddam Hussein got the ball rolling after the Gulf War. The way I envision it is more of a Great Westernized Empire that includes the EU and the NAU working together against the rising threat (thanks to American intervention and provocations) in Iran and the Middle East. The Middle East is a conflict in which Europe should be very interested in, as it is by far closer to it than America is. If Iran begins a war in the Middle East and it spreads into Europe, the EU is going to need America, not only as a military hand, but as an industrious hand. We can make supplies for NATO way over here and send them to Europe to be used in their "war", whatever that war may be.
I'm not so sure about the whole Middle East war part, but I agree that the EU and USA will be working much closer together in the future (I imagine the rising threats to be China, Russia and India, especially economically). The EU is very interested in the Middle East and has been spreading its influence there quite a lot recently, through diplomacy (EU3) and through its neighbourhood policy which is funding a huge amount of infrastructure and basic development.
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Titanic wrote:
CreepersWiener wrote:The EU definitely has the power, as some Oil has been trading in Euros since Saddam Hussein got the ball rolling after the Gulf War. The way I envision it is more of a Great Westernized Empire that includes the EU and the NAU working together against the rising threat (thanks to American intervention and provocations) in Iran and the Middle East. The Middle East is a conflict in which Europe should be very interested in, as it is by far closer to it than America is. If Iran begins a war in the Middle East and it spreads into Europe, the EU is going to need America, not only as a military hand, but as an industrious hand. We can make supplies for NATO way over here and send them to Europe to be used in their "war", whatever that war may be.
I'm not so sure about the whole Middle East war part, but I agree that the EU and USA will be working much closer together in the future (I imagine the rising threats to be China, Russia and India, especially economically). The EU is very interested in the Middle East and has been spreading its influence there quite a lot recently, through diplomacy (EU3) and through its neighbourhood policy which is funding a huge amount of infrastructure and basic development.
Titanic, why do you think the EU keeps stalling Turkey's EU admission?
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by Titanic »

BigBallinStalin wrote: Titanic, why do you think the EU keeps stalling Turkey's EU admission?
Because its a Muslim nation, and if they join there will be a large influx of Muslim immigrants to western Europe. Simple as.

P.S Of course no politician will ever say this so they come up with other reasons or alternative measures.
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by TeletubbyPrince »

why do you think the EU keeps stalling Turkey's EU admission?
Because the Turks:
Share little common culture
Are poor
Commited and denied the Armenian genocide
Have a large population (which would mean more power within the EU)

Admitting the Turks would see little benefit, but much trouble.
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by Baron Von PWN »

TeletubbyPrince wrote:
why do you think the EU keeps stalling Turkey's EU admission?
Because the Turks are turks
Fixed that for you.
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by Snorri1234 »

TeletubbyPrince wrote: Have a large population (which would mean more power within the EU)
Mostly this. Seats in the parliament are distributed based on population and Turkey's population is second only to Germany. It would immediately gain a lot of power without having the problem of different ideologies combatting eachother. (i.e. there are no christian-democrat parties or green parties unlike the rest of Europe.)

Them being poor is also quite a good argument, since we'd basically have to subsidize a lot of people who are poor. This is less of a problem with smaller poor countries.


Honestly, Turkey first has to do a lot of things before they should be admitted. I'm in favor of it, but it's no easy question.
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by jay_a2j »

The EU will be a super power.


Source: the Bible.
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by Snorri1234 »

jay_a2j wrote:The EU will be a super power.


Source: the Bible.
At least you're giving your sources....
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by BigBallinStalin »

Snorri1234 wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:The EU will be a super power.


Source: the Bible.
But what about the return of Jesus? That's gotta be the next super power...
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by Titanic »

jay_a2j wrote:The EU will be a super power.


Source: the Bible.
Exact quote plz.
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by CreepersWiener »

Snorri1234 wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:The EU will be a super power.


Source: the Bible.
At least you're giving your sources....
Must bump... :lol:

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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by jay_a2j »

Titanic wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:The EU will be a super power.


Source: the Bible.
Exact quote plz.

It doesn't say, "The EU will be a world power"


However, it does say that the anti-Christ will lead the "Revived Roman Empire" (Europe) and "who will make war with the beast?"
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by Titanic »

jay_a2j wrote:
Titanic wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:The EU will be a super power.


Source: the Bible.
Exact quote plz.

It doesn't say, "The EU will be a world power"


However, it does say that the anti-Christ will lead the "Revived Roman Empire" (Europe) and "who will make war with the beast?"
Wouldn't the "revived Roman Empire" be the Holy Roman Empire in the late middle ages? The EU is not like the Roman Empire, it is like the Roman Republic (not really, but out of the two is is closer to this one).
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by TeletubbyPrince »

Titanic wrote:
Wouldn't the "revived Roman Empire" be the Holy Roman Empire in the late middle ages? The EU is not like the Roman Empire, it is like the Roman Republic (not really, but out of the two is is closer to this one).
You really should learn about stuff before you go spewing this shit everywhere. The Holy Roman Empire had nothing to do with Rome; some pope granted some German conqueror that title at some point before 1000AD. It existed before and after the 'late medieval ages' too - the more you rant on about this the stupider your posts look :lol: =D> :roll: :D ;)
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by Timminz »

jay_a2j wrote:make war with the beast
That's a euphemism for rough sex, right?
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by Titanic »

TeletubbyPrince wrote:
Titanic wrote:
Wouldn't the "revived Roman Empire" be the Holy Roman Empire in the late middle ages? The EU is not like the Roman Empire, it is like the Roman Republic (not really, but out of the two is is closer to this one).
You really should learn about stuff before you go spewing this shit everywhere. The Holy Roman Empire had nothing to do with Rome; some pope granted some German conqueror that title at some point before 1000AD. It existed before and after the 'late medieval ages' too - the more you rant on about this the stupider your posts look :lol: =D> :roll: :D ;)
I know that but it was called the Holy Roman Empire to try and revive the power and influence and history that the original Roman Empire had. Its name was not a coincidence. Maybe you should learn some damn history.
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Re: European Union, soon to be superpower?

Post by TeletubbyPrince »

Titanic wrote:
TeletubbyPrince wrote:
Titanic wrote:
Wouldn't the "revived Roman Empire" be the Holy Roman Empire in the late middle ages? The EU is not like the Roman Empire, it is like the Roman Republic (not really, but out of the two is is closer to this one).
You really should learn about stuff before you go spewing this shit everywhere. The Holy Roman Empire had nothing to do with Rome; some pope granted some German conqueror that title at some point before 1000AD. It existed before and after the 'late medieval ages' too - the more you rant on about this the stupider your posts look :lol: =D> :roll: :D ;)
I know that but it was called the Holy Roman Empire to try and revive the power and influence and history that the original Roman Empire had. Its name was not a coincidence. Maybe you should learn some damn history.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Europeans revered Rome long after it fell and the Pope needed a nifty title to hand out, so he came up with 'Holy Roman Emperor'. It's similar to how people are still knighted today - the title grants no power or meaning but still sounds cool. 1000AD Europeans didn't know shit about Rome, so your poorly worded jargon about 'history and power lolol' is a completely transparent attempt at hiding your stupidity.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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