[Abandoned] - Zombie Invasion!

[b00kw0rm]

I'm not really happy with the purple street connections, but they show up clearly without being too garish.

Make them red. Then it'll look like trails of blood.

[Top Dog]

Personally I like the compromise of having the background representing the horde of zombies... I agree with Marshal that if you added in too many zombie terr. the player would just skip through the terr. they didn't need to pass... Personally I like the amount of terr. now... if you want to add or remove several zombies that'd be find but I think 20 zombies in an area is a big no-no...
other than that I like it... I don't have much time as of now, but maybe I'll take a look later and see if there's anything I can nit-pick on lol... It sounds mean but nit-picking is what get's stuff done... I wish people nit-picked my original map even more tbh

Edit: also, first names as zombie terr. sounds too cheezy to me... keep it simple but not bob or frank or whatever...

[DukeWellington]

Awesome map! I can't wait to play it!

[Top Dog]

Awesome map! I can't wait to play it!

uh oh... you know marshal doesn't like compliments on his map without some criticism as well!

I like how you are showing the zombies in the streets, even though not through territories, but through graphics. Maybe even try adding more, just to really represent the mass of zombies...

I'd say you could try making the street connections a red, although I think the pink/purple would work too...

Other than that it looks solid... Maybe just work on trying to keep the gameplay pretty well balanced, and it seems to be...

I just now noticed the blood spatters... I like the idea but maybe they could be worked on a bit... not anything big... just something I noticed... I was thinking more like blood smears... maybe try adding a few inside an entrance of some of the buildings... just an idea of course...

[MarshalNey]

The artwork is great, and the mood is just right. It also looks like it could get frantic near the end of the game, with everyone making a mad dash to the helipads.

Thanks for giving me the positives... it helps to know what people like. A mad dash for the helipads is hopefully what we'll get if this makes it to Beta

Just a question, is the helipad area a zombified area? It's out in the open, so it should have a negative effect for being there, aka lose # troops per turn due to the zombie attacks.

That's actually a great idea. I knew I couldn't make them zombified, because you can't hold a killer neutral for a victory objective or bonus. A decay would do the trick.

Currently the items are mostly colorless, and blend in with the pale backgrounds... Possibly making the font, tag border, and image border brighter would make it easier.

I'll get on that.

I like the current amount of spaces between the different buildings, but I agree with 'Comrade' Industrial Helix that it doesn't convey the sense of a massive horde. Maybe draw in a bunch of little zombies in the outside, grouped around each outside space?

Sounds like a good suggestion, even if it doesn't satisfy Helix completely it's a step in the right direction.


Here's a quick and dirty sample of what I've been fiddling with, let me know if you think it's the right way to go:

I'd also like a way of getting one of the bottommost buildings to the other besides having to go around the entire loop.

Heh, I've been thinking about the routes. I like how the streets are cut in half by the barricade, but the Academy might be a little too secure down in that corner. I'm not sure yet if I need to change the routes or add an entrance to the Ghetto on that side.

[MarshalNey]

I like how you are showing the zombies in the streets, even though not through territories, but through graphics. Maybe even try adding more, just to really represent the mass of zombies...

It could use a few more, couldn't it? I'll get on that.

I'd say you could try making the street connections a red, although I think the pink/purple would work too...

Make them red. Then it'll look like trails of blood

Yes... I think maybe trying to make the connections into blood trails rather than purplish veins might work. I'll see what I can whip up.

I just now noticed the blood spatters... I like the idea but maybe they could be worked on a bit... not anything big... just something I noticed... I was thinking more like blood smears... maybe try adding a few inside an entrance of some of the buildings... just an idea of course...

You just noticed the blood spatters? Oh dear, I'll have to use more

If I make the connections into blood trails, then having a smear lead inside would only be natural- I'll see how it looks.

I'll take a look later and see if there's anything I can nit-pick on lol... It sounds mean but nit-picking is what get's stuff done...

Truer words were never spoken. Thanks for taking the time to nitpick, keep it coming.

[MarshalNey]

Awesome map! I can't wait to play it!

Ah, Duke... thanks for popping in and taking a look. Is there anything specifically that you like about the map? If I could only keep one thing, what would your vote be?

I really appreciate the feedback and hope to hear more of your opinions (hopefully in the near future )

[b00kw0rm]

I notice that there's a room called Fire Escape in the bottom-center. You could make the fire-escape one of the exits to connect that building to the bottom-right.

[MarshalNey]

Yes.... you're right, that's a perfect spot for an entrance. I originally had one there in fact, then took it out ages ago. Guess I might end up adding it back in... whoops

[Memnon]

Marshal, I've read all the notes here and think you're on the right track. A few points I'd like to touch on, and maybe some help on names...

1. Stategos - while I didn't originally have any issue with the name, after someone else mentioned it, I don't like it much either. It's supposed to be the academy building yes? So here's a few name options. Professors, Mad Scientists (you find more of these than mad doctors, but then you're finding another name for them...meh), Nerds! (admit it...we all are), The engineers? Just a few thoughts for you to mull and take you in a different direction than staregos...

2. Don't think about Bad/Good groups, I agree with TD in the fact that they should remain in the gray and not take the road to Disney.

3. Helicopter pad - I like the helicopter idea, but bigger. I know scale is all wrong, but I'd like to see a chopper that takes up the space of 1/4 of the pad. You know, about as big as one section, but maybe positioned in between two, like the middle of the bottom section would be a good spot to drop one. Good luck on the graphical end of that...I'm no help there.

4. More zombies on the street - I couldn't agree more. You say it's too busy, and cramped Marshal, I disagree. I think if you added a few more here and there it would be fine. Maybe give us an example (do you still have the old paint file laying around?). More zombies, more blood. It doesn't feel like a horde yet - more like a small gaming group gone wrong.

5. The building walls are fine in my opinion. I've seen some maps before where the defining lines were difficult and I couldn't tell if I could be attacked or not. Here, you can tell. I think attempting to redefining the walls would be overly critical at this point. (But gods do something about that purple line in the streets! We hates it precious)

Ok Marshal, you've convinced me once again to put time and effort into the map your designing. This is what I can give you for now, I'll check back in later.

Memnon

[MarshalNey]

...So here's a few name options. Professors, Mad Scientists (you find more of these than mad doctors, but then you're finding another name for them...meh), Nerds! (admit it...we all are), The engineers? Just a few thoughts for you to mull and take you in a different direction than staregos...

'Staregos'? Sounds like a futuristic brand of snack food.... mmmmm... pass the staregos, honey.

Anyway, you're right of course. "Strategos" was sort of a fill-in name to get the idea across, until the creative juices came up with something better. Unfortunately, my juices aren't flowing like they ought....

"Professors" and "Nerds" don't sound mighty enough to win against a pack of arthritic nuns, let alone a horde of undead... I dunno. "Intellectacons" is my best brainstorm idea... sure, they might come from outer space, but they're more than meets the eye (sigh)

2. Don't think about Bad/Good groups, I agree with TD in the fact that they should remain in the gray and not take the road to Disney.

Duly noted, I concur... it was just a novel thought that tickled me.

3. Helicopter pad - I like the helicopter idea, but bigger. I know scale is all wrong, but I'd like to see a chopper that takes up the space of 1/4 of the pad. You know, about as big as one section, but maybe positioned in between two, like the middle of the bottom section would be a good spot to drop one...

Hmmm... I'll put it on my list of' possible to do's... I'm really not as concerned about the graphical polishing as getting the concept and general look first, so this will probably wait until I get the zombies themselves positioned to everyone's satisfaction.

4. More zombies on the street - I couldn't agree more. You say it's too busy, and cramped Marshal, I disagree. I think if you added a few more here and there it would be fine. Maybe give us an example (do you still have the old paint file laying around?). More zombies, more blood. It doesn't feel like a horde yet - more like a small gaming group gone wrong.

Heh, gaming group you say? I guess one of them found the Necronomicon and decided to use it for LARPing...

Anyway, I get that Helix, et al., want the streets flooded with zombie territories. I just like how the gameplay stands right now, and I'd hate to mess around with it just for looks- after all, isn't that what graphics are for? If I knew that these suggestions were for gameplay reasons, rather than image, I'd be more inclined to yield on this point. On the other hand, as I pointed out in a previous post, I really can't increase the territories as dramatically as Helix wanted, because most of them would serve almost no gameplay purpose whatsoever and would sacrifice a great deal of potential flavor.

At best, I could perhaps double the number of zombie territories in the streets and still keep some semblance of flavor and gameplay.

I'm working on adding flavor graphics with bloody trails for routes and small depictions of zombies, although it's going slowly so I may have to just sumbit a revision that is less than decent just to keep everyone in the loop.

If anyone cares to comment on the sample that I posted, at least as far as the format goes (too small, too confusing, not enough, etc.) I would be most grateful.

Ok Marshal, you've convinced me once again to put time and effort into the map your designing. This is what I can give you for now, I'll check back in later.

Much appreciated, M-non. Thanks for the specific feedback. May I suggest that you check out some other maps while you're strolling the forum? All of the mapmakers here are pretty receptive to any kind of comment (except for "you suck," I suppose, but that's hardly surprising )

[Memnon]

whoops -

I only read the first page, then noticed just after I hit submit that there were 3 pages of notes, one of which was your updated "zombie" look. Too small in my opinion. In the blown up picture you can barely see what they are, some people play on screens smaller than my 22" monstrosity, so I can't imagine them getting the graphical beauty from those tiny zombies.

I'm not asking you to put in dozens of zombies in between like Helix, I agree that would take too much away from game play - especially since you're making them killer neutrals (and then zombie neutrals later on....oh what problems you'd have then...eek!). But double might be something to play around with. It's not exactly game-play related, but not just graphical either....more map flavor I suppose. Like I said, it doesn't have the "zombie hordes" feel yet - game-play wise.

Staregos....I'm not allowed a typo from time to time?

I'd love to see the current sample (and maybe the old one?? via email??) - and don't use "intellectacons", oof; let's see if we can come up with something better first, like dork butt central - anything is better than Intellectacons.

[b00kw0rm]

How about "Tacticians"?

[TaCktiX]

How about "Tacticians"?

I like it, I like it! [/self-effacingcomment]

As for the new zombie horde, I don't think there are enough. Have the horde surrounding the entire army circle and it should be good.

[CaronylKluster]

I think your making precise improvements that polish the map. I hope to see this in the queue soon.

[MarshalNey]

Sorry that I've been so long to post- the map has been slow going this week.

An updated version is now posted at the beginning of the thread, along with a new set of questions.

Changes:
1) Street routes are now red... and sort of blood-trail-esque
2) Added in 4 zombie hero pictures. They might be a bit too tiny to appreciate. I swear, though, at 2x magnification they look okay.
3) Added in little zombie shades around the street territories. There's an alternate version on the Killing Zone in the lower lefthand corner.
4) Changed "Strategos" to "Tacticians"... it's the better of the two I think, more direct.
5) Added some rough highlights to the item names.
6) Increased the Faction name font size.
7) Redid a few walls and army circle positions (fiddling)

Questions:
1) Number of zombie territories- acceptable with graphics? (they can be improved)
2) Zombie pictures- good, bad, what do they need?
3) Street connections- good or bad? I left different styles of trails into the buildings, some go all the way, some stop before entering, etc. Which (if any) is best?

Thanks everyone for your advice and interest so far.

MarshalNey

[MarshalNey]

I think your making precise improvements that polish the map. I hope to see this in the queue soon.

Whoa, CK, how'd I miss this post? Sorry to take so long to respond...

Thanks for the vote of confidence- is there something specific that you like? What would you consider the 'essence' of this map (so far) and what could be changed/discarded?

Any advice, criticism or opinion you might have is much appreciated.

[natty dread]

Click image to enlarge.

I like the blood trails... this map is really getting somewhere. I think this should be moved to gp workshop by now.

The buildings look a bit out of place... they are so bright and clean, while the outside is dark and grungy. The contrast is a bit too heavy... Perhaps darken the buildings a bit, also could add some "rubble" in them, stuff like bullet holes or something.

Anyway, nice work.

[b00kw0rm]

[00iCon]

Excellent work so far

Here's my two cents:
You could make the helicopter park a secure zone instead. It is also quite large and has wasted space. Try to move the legend, maybe add more territories inside. A circle of barbed wire would probably work best, but you could use a hexagon or octagon depending on the decided territories. This allows more space for zombie territories in the streets.
You could put military personnel in the compound fending off the horde(You draw better than I ever could). Capturing some of these territories may even allow bombardment of the streets.
Here are my suggestions as pictures done in paint in >5 mins.

[GreysouIe]

Something that would be fun is if the zombies could win. Maybe I'm just an old b-movie fan, but if the zombies would have a possible win it would add a little flavor.
Overall I like the idea, my only thoughts is that the map is a little generic in terms of being like a box. It's sort of like a rubix cube side so you have 8 factions with everyone going for the middle.
Anyway, keep on fiddling. I think you have a good idea here.

[MarshalNey]

I like the blood trails... this map is really getting somewhere. I think this should be moved to gp workshop by now.

The buildings look a bit out of place... they are so bright and clean, while the outside is dark and grungy. The contrast is a bit too heavy... Perhaps darken the buildings a bit, also could add some "rubble" in them, stuff like bullet holes or something.

Anyway, nice work.

Thanks Natty. The contrast between the buildings and the outside is of course intentional, to emphasize the relative "security" of the indoors, but I like what you're suggesting here. The buildings are simple and unadorned right now, and certainly extra stuff won't make the map look less busy, but there's no harm in seeing what some battle damage could add... it might take me awhile to get to this, but I'll definitely try it out.

Hopefully you'll have the time to keep peeking in, you and Helix are great posters for maps and I really appreciate your feedback.

Here's my two cents:
You could make the helicopter park a secure zone instead. It is also quite large and has wasted space. Try to move the legend, maybe add more territories inside. A circle of barbed wire would probably work best, but you could use a hexagon or octagon depending on the decided territories. This allows more space for zombie territories in the streets.
You could put military personnel in the compound fending off the horde(You draw better than I ever could). Capturing some of these territories may even allow bombardment of the streets.

Okay this is a nice concrete suggestion (thanks for the diagram, btw). Moving the legend into the middle was actually on my original MS Paint concept sketch, but in practice I need a lot more room than the center can provide. The map is nearly at the maximum size at 840 x 765 pixels, and I still have to make a legible 'small' version. There simply won't be room for the legend and a gameplay objective, and I really want a gameplay objective in the middle (for now anyway).

Also, the idea for taking the gameplay objective is that it would allow a faction to 'escape'. The zombie hordes are supposed to be effectively endless- there's just too many zombies and too few bullets/grenades/shells. As long as I'm continuing with this thematic idea, I need there to be an escape vehicle in the center- namely helicopters.

On the other hand, I like the idea of a military-type compound- maybe a fenced off 'checkpoint' that a militia/national guard established downtown and then got overrun or abandoned? That would make the presence of the helipad make more sense, certainly. I might try adding in military hardware elements, maybe abandonded tanks and stuff. Saving space might be possible by trimming the corners, but I'll have to think about whether added zombie zones will actually add to the gameplay. After all, the zombie zones need to form linear paths, or they won't function as gauntlets and the superfulous zones will just get bypassed (see 2 pages back for the full discussion).

Good point about the center, though, I'll definitely work on upgrading it with the idea of a military outpost.

Thank you for peeking in on this thread from time to time. I hope you stick with me to the end

Something that would be fun is if the zombies could win. Maybe I'm just an old b-movie fan, but if the zombies would have a possible win it would add a little flavor

I agree!

This map is designed partly with the Zombie Neutrals feature in mind. Zombie Neutrals are aggressive neutrals that will attack surrounding non-neutral territories. Unfortunately, until that suggestion is implemented- and it may be quite some time- it just isn't possible to have the neutrals take over the map. Sorry.

However, you could always voice your support for implementing the Zombie Neutrals as the next CC upgrade, in the Suggestions Forum.

Overall I like the idea, my only thoughts is that the map is a little generic in terms of being like a box. It's sort of like a rubix cube side so you have 8 factions with everyone going for the middle.
Anyway, keep on fiddling. I think you have a good idea here.

...hmmm 'generic'. Oof. Any thoughts on what you'd like to see? The layout is still flexible since this is in the Melting Pot, but I'm fairly committed to the idea of 8 starting positions (CC guidelines require every new map to support 8 players). Is there some other arrangement you had in mind?

Anyway, thanks for the support and feedback, Greysoule. Keep it coming!


NOTE: I'm updating my map with a few small changes (added in 1 zombie tert and an entrance to the Ghetto) and updated my to-do list with your suggestions. Without your feedback, this map would in limbo, so please continue to post

[MarshalNey]

Also, just to let everyone know, the current number of player territories is 63. I would like to bump that total up to 70 or 71 for much fairer drop distributions.

So far, my best idea is to add some territiories to the Helipad and some safe zones in the streets.

If anyone has any ideas about this, let me know.

[00iCon]

Okay this is a nice concrete suggestion (thanks for the diagram, btw). Moving the legend into the middle was actually on my original MS Paint concept sketch, but in practice I need a lot more room than the center can provide. The map is nearly at the maximum size at 840 x 765 pixels, and I still have to make a legible 'small' version. There simply won't be room for the legend and a gameplay objective, and I really want a gameplay objective in the middle (for now anyway).

Also, the idea for taking the gameplay objective is that it would allow a faction to 'escape'. The zombie hordes are supposed to be effectively endless- there's just too many zombies and too few bullets/grenades/shells. As long as I'm continuing with this thematic idea, I need there to be an escape vehicle in the center- namely helicopters.

On the other hand, I like the idea of a military-type compound- maybe a fenced off 'checkpoint' that a militia/national guard established downtown and then got overrun or abandoned? That would make the presence of the helipad make more sense, certainly. I might try adding in military hardware elements, maybe abandonded tanks and stuff. Saving space might be possible by trimming the corners, but I'll have to think about whether added zombie zones will actually add to the gameplay. After all, the zombie zones need to form linear paths, or they won't function as gauntlets and the superfulous zones will just get bypassed (see 2 pages back for the full discussion).

Good point about the center, though, I'll definitely work on upgrading it with the idea of a military outpost.

Thank you for peeking in on this thread from time to time. I hope you stick with me to the end

I've been following rather closely, and I see your point.
Barbed wire around the helipad would probably be sufficient to make sensse for the helipad. Pehaps including a waiting helicopter would add to the graphical intensity.
Keeping to the topic of graphics, this map lacks a border. Again, blood or spray paint would work. Also the building's outlines are just... lines. Bricks and windows (some smashed) would look great if you can do it.

Also, just to let everyone know, the current number of player territories is 63. I would like to bump that total up to 70 or 71 for much fairer drop distributions.

So far, my best idea is to add some territiories to the Helipad and some safe zones in the streets.

If anyone has any ideas about this, let me know.

More helipad zones would be great and perhaps high neutral safe zones in the street should have a bonus to make them desirable.

[Top Dog]

More helipad zones would be great and perhaps high neutral safe zones in the street should have a bonus to make them desirable.

I always liked in the map "Space" how the wormhole and warp gate systems were kind of like a side bonus that connected the map. I like the idea of the safe zones, w/ a bonus... maybe make a "manhole system" acting just like the warp gate/wormhole systems in Space.

Just going out on a limb here... (if you haven't seen/played the map Space check it out first...) Maybe outside of 5 of the buildings we have a connected underground "dungeon system" running across the map (the symbol could be something like stairs heading underground). That would be worth maybe 3 or so for a bonus. Then outside the 3 other buildings have an underground "manhole system" that would be worth 2 or so...

They wouldn't have to be right outside of the building and there wouldn't have to be eight either but I think that would add to the zombie feeling a bit more.

It's kind of a ripoff of space's gameplay but that would be just one small aspect of zombieland. Lemme know if you like the idea marshal...