Who will benefit if the US defaults, even for a short time?

[Phatscotty]

It's not like we haven't had government shutdowns before. It's one thing to threaten to do it, it's another thing once it actually happens and people stop getting unemployment checks. Then, they get pissed. And politicians change.

We have had government shutdowns, sure. We have never had a default. A default means we don't pay bills already due, that the US has already agreed to pay.

This is not about future costs or the budget. And, I believe the Tea Partiers are just idiotic enough to push for it.

There is something of a difference, yes, and don't get me wrong, having our debt rating downgraded from AAA would be really not helping the general recovery process (as well as leading to 100 billion/year in additional government spending rar oh no Obama) and it will be around 80% the fault of Republicans, in my totally imbalanced estimation. But still, I feel like when Americans get to be really hurt by this, it'll stop. That's usually the way it works. I guess I'm an optimist?

Dude, our credit rating is going to get downgraded because we spend twice as much money as we take in and our economy sucks. We are at the point of borrowing just to pay interest on previous borrowing. That is how you get a credit downgrade.

[Woodruff]

If only we could get the American national leaders to act with as much integrity as a simple Japanese gaming executive, we might actually be able to take their words seriously:
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/arch ... ubles.aspx

[PLAYER57832]

I still say if you want the real answer... follow the money. I am no longer in a place to see exactly what is happening on that front, though I can guess. However, if you look to who will benefit, then you will see both why it is happening and what the result will really be.

Beyond that.. congressmen should take a cue from preschoolers.

[PLAYER57832]

It's not like we haven't had government shutdowns before. It's one thing to threaten to do it, it's another thing once it actually happens and people stop getting unemployment checks. Then, they get pissed. And politicians change.

We have had government shutdowns, sure. We have never had a default. A default means we don't pay bills already due, that the US has already agreed to pay.

This is not about future costs or the budget. And, I believe the Tea Partiers are just idiotic enough to push for it.

There is something of a difference, yes, and don't get me wrong, having our debt rating downgraded from AAA would be really not helping the general recovery process (as well as leading to 100 billion/year in additional government spending rar oh no Obama) and it will be around 80% the fault of Republicans, in my totally imbalanced estimation. But still, I feel like when Americans get to be really hurt by this, it'll stop. That's usually the way it works. I guess I'm an optimist?

Dude, our credit rating is going to get downgraded because we spend twice as much money as we take in and our economy sucks. We are at the point of borrowing just to pay interest on previous borrowing. That is how you get a credit downgrade.

You are talking apples and oranges. Do we need to cut spending for the future? Absolutely! NO one denies that.

However, the default is about paying debts already incurred. This is like saying "I don't like the fact that my husband/wife ran up a huge credit card bill, so let's just not pay the utilities!

The answer IS to stop the credit cards, take another job, sell stuff..ALL of that. Refusing to pay bills already do just means you have higher interest rates, penalties and other serious problems down the road.

Hmm.. that makes me think. Maybe we ought to make congressmen, the president.. and let's throw in all the lobbiest for good measure volunteer for at least a day each in parks, hospitals, old folks homes, fire/police departments and emergency shelters or food pantries. A day in EACH, mind you.. not just a day in one. (and yes, I know plenty of congressmen do or have volunteered in things like food pantries..but this would be much more). Shoot.. for that matter, I would like to see them have to run machines on a factory production line for a day as well.

[Phatscotty]

Coin Collectors!

This whole default scenario, fundamentally, is the reason many people started buying gold n silver coins in 2000-2005.

You have heard me say here, many times, that nothing has changed as far as correcting our fiscal problems. That includes real estate, the US dollar, and not only the federal debt, but also the trade deficit and the federal deficit (which was quadrupled in 2009). The bubble from the tech boom was just transferred to real estate, and now real estate has transferred to commodities. This bubble debt needs to be liquidated.

In the olden days we would have a growth surge, and then a recession, and then start growing again. Since 1998, the Fed Res has found a way to skip the recession and jump right into the next bubble. Greenspan was hailed as a genius and savior for doing this, but what ended up happening is that bubble were being stacked on top of bubbles. The recessions and set backs since 1998 have been barely noticeable, up until 2009. Now the economy is stagnated and not even a trillion dollar stimulus plan (more bubble) can wake it up. We are going the wrong way.

We have a long way to go to get out of this super bubble.

Gold $1600

[PLAYER57832]

I will benefit if there's a default. Actually, I'm already doing so as all the gold bullion that I bought when gold was at the spot price of around $1,400 has now gone up to somewhere around $1,700 - $1,800 per 1 ounce coin. It depends on the store. My silver proof coins have also gone up. I've already made a few phone calls to various dealers who've made some offers so I'll have to decide if I want to go ahead and sell now or wait until the economy becomes worse.

Anybody here buy platinum or palladium coins? I'm not sure if I can turn them around for a profit like gold and silver. I see a new thread subject developing...

Case in point...

[GreecePwns]

I hope you're aware Bush didn't include the two wars in his budgets.

Also, the futures market can be destroyed altogether for what I care.

I don't know who benefits if we default, but I know the politicians will find a way to make their biggest donors benefit.

[gannable]

The Jesuit order

they control the world

politics is just a load of BS, just a game

the fall of the US will the symbolic total and utter defeat of the Protestant Reformation

[BoganGod]

The Jesuit order

they control the world

politics is just a load of BS, just a game

the fall of the US will the symbolic total and utter defeat of the Protestant Reformation

gannable I am so disappointed in you right now. It is Oh piss day that controls the cat lick lurch, which controls the jest do its.

The protestant crazies in their apocalyptic zionist fantasies are probably closest to the truth, as they pull they puds and do quasi maths attempting to work out when the world will end. Maybe instead of the book of revelation, they should spend more time on the book of daniel(the other christian/jewish apoclypse book). If we believe the fundamentalist christian doctrine, we are living in the end days, we are in the days of the feet of mud. The world is going to end, and it is going to end badly.

Enough of the bad news. The good news. Whilst the American economy is being flushed down the dunny by the elected servants of the american people. The australian economy is going great. Thanks america and china

[PLAYER57832]

I don't know who benefits if we default, but I know the politicians will find a way to make their biggest donors benefit.

And whether they will fix this or not has more to do with how much they will benefit than any "piddly" concerns of the rest of us.. "piddly" meaning things like how to feed our kids, see the doctor when sick and keep a roof over our heads.

[Woodruff]

the fall of the US will the symbolic total and utter defeat of the Protestant Reformation

What? Holy crap.

[rockfist]

You know I am in the financial services area...and I have no certainty as to the answer to this. I like to break it down in to short term <6months, medium term 6mo-2.5 years, and long term >2.5 years. I think your winners and losers are different depending on the term...

in the short term politically I think both parties take a hit, coin collectors and people who short the dollar win.

in the medium term politically I think Democrats win out more than Republicans and people with lots of cash today, who can enter the market as things go down win. Coin collectors do well but not as well as in the short term.

in the long term politically I think Republicans win more than Democrats and coin collectors do not do as well as stock investors - if the deficit and debt are cut significantly.

[PLAYER57832]

The protestant crazies in their apocalyptic zionist fantasies are probably closest to the truth, as they pull they puds and do quasi maths attempting to work out when the world will end. Maybe instead of the book of revelation, they should spend more time on the book of daniel(the other christian/jewish apoclypse book). If we believe the fundamentalist christian doctrine, we are living in the end days, we are in the days of the feet of mud. The world is going to end, and it is going to end badly.

Uh.. don't group mainline Protestants with the far right "fundamentalists" (they are anything but fundamental, but that is for another thread). Anyway.. carry on, back to the default bit.

[PLAYER57832]

You know I am in the financial services area...and I have no certainty as to the answer to this. I like to break it down in to short term <6months, medium term 6mo-2.5 years, and long term >2.5 years. I think your winners and losers are different depending on the term...

in the short term politically I think both parties take a hit, coin collectors and people who short the dollar win.

in the medium term politically I think Democrats win out more than Republicans and people with lots of cash today, who can enter the market as things go down win. Coin collectors do well but not as well as in the short term.

in the long term politically I think Republicans win more than Democrats and coin collectors do not do as well as stock investors - if the deficit and debt are cut significantly.

The Bottom line is WE will all suffer!

[Night Strike]

You know I am in the financial services area...and I have no certainty as to the answer to this. I like to break it down in to short term <6months, medium term 6mo-2.5 years, and long term >2.5 years. I think your winners and losers are different depending on the term...

in the short term politically I think both parties take a hit, coin collectors and people who short the dollar win.

in the medium term politically I think Democrats win out more than Republicans and people with lots of cash today, who can enter the market as things go down win. Coin collectors do well but not as well as in the short term.

in the long term politically I think Republicans win more than Democrats and coin collectors do not do as well as stock investors - if the deficit and debt are cut significantly.

The Bottom line is WE will all suffer!

Our country has reached (or gone past) the point that we need to suffer a little to avoid a complete collapse of our system from piling on more and more debt. What's worse is that people have been so greedy that the simple concept of spending only what you earn is considered suffering. Quite pathetic.

[GreecePwns]

That attitude is pathetic. We don't need to suffer for what government does. The government, as an entity that has become separate from the will of the people, deserves to suffer for the conditions it has created.

[PLAYER57832]

You know I am in the financial services area...and I have no certainty as to the answer to this. I like to break it down in to short term <6months, medium term 6mo-2.5 years, and long term >2.5 years. I think your winners and losers are different depending on the term...

in the short term politically I think both parties take a hit, coin collectors and people who short the dollar win.

in the medium term politically I think Democrats win out more than Republicans and people with lots of cash today, who can enter the market as things go down win. Coin collectors do well but not as well as in the short term.

in the long term politically I think Republicans win more than Democrats and coin collectors do not do as well as stock investors - if the deficit and debt are cut significantly.

The Bottom line is WE will all suffer!

Our country has reached (or gone past) the point that we need to suffer a little to avoid a complete collapse of our system from piling on more and more debt. What's worse is that people have been so greedy that the simple concept of spending only what you earn is considered suffering. Quite pathetic.

OH BULL! the wealthy are not suffering, never have suffered and in particular have seen their portfolios RISE while the rest of us faced cuts in pay, cuts in our bneefits, cuts in services provided to help us out in lean times, cuts in education ... cuts, cuts, cuts.

WE are being asked to pay for things other people did irresponsibly.. specifically Wall street, the banking "leaders", health insurance companies (NOT health care workers!), pharmeceutical companies, and all those corporations that somehow could "no longer afford to stay in the US".. even though their owners would never dream of living anywhere else.

[Night Strike]

WE are being asked to pay for things other people did irresponsibly.. specifically Wall street, the banking "leaders", health insurance companies (NOT health care workers!), pharmeceutical companies, and all those corporations that somehow could "no longer afford to stay in the US".. even though their owners would never dream of living anywhere else.

Which is why conservatives were AGAINST the bailouts and TARP, not for them. They screwed up, so let them fail. Quit paying them off.

[PLAYER57832]

WE are being asked to pay for things other people did irresponsibly.. specifically Wall street, the banking "leaders", health insurance companies (NOT health care workers!), pharmeceutical companies, and all those corporations that somehow could "no longer afford to stay in the US".. even though their owners would never dream of living anywhere else.

Which is why conservatives were AGAINST the bailouts and TARP, not for them. They screwed up, so let them fail. Quit paying them off.

BULL, again, "conservatives" or those touting that label were for all that. BUT, the REAL problem was that they allowed the system to evolve to the point that those things happened and then we were caught..a nd the conservatives, after having supported the policies that got us into trouble from the start want to lay all the blame on liberals and claim that they and they alone have the "solutions".

The REAL solution was NOT to have cut the banking regulations, to not have worded them so specifically that all the banks had to do was create some new entity that suddenly would escape the current regulations, NOT to have cut taxes as they did..a nd yes, that goes for the lower income tax breaks and benefits as well, and above all else, not to have used the Social security fund as some kind of borrowing fund!

OH, yeah, and while we are about it, keep people and companies responsible for ensuring damage doesn't happen.. PERIOD, not leave it up to everyone else to prove that "gee, arsenic really is poisonous!" To illustrate exactly how stupid our rules are, do you realize, truly understand that we don't even have safe levels established for LEAD.. a substance we have known to be toxic (yet still used extensively) for hundreds of years, and we have no safe level! Why? Because establishing one basically means allowing some kids to be poisoned and then recording at what level they stop being poisoned. Now, is that sensible for a humane, civilized society? Yet, that is exactly what happens with chemical safety in our country, today. Worse, many substances are not actually as harmful as lead, but require years before they cause problems. Is that right? To say "hey.. go ahead and put whatever you want in our drinking water, our streams our air... as long as no one can step forward with the proof and absolutely 100% proove it is bad, its just OK".. does that really and truly make sense?

[Night Strike]

WE are being asked to pay for things other people did irresponsibly.. specifically Wall street, the banking "leaders", health insurance companies (NOT health care workers!), pharmeceutical companies, and all those corporations that somehow could "no longer afford to stay in the US".. even though their owners would never dream of living anywhere else.

Which is why conservatives were AGAINST the bailouts and TARP, not for them. They screwed up, so let them fail. Quit paying them off.

BULL, again, "conservatives" or those touting that label were for all that. BUT, the REAL problem was that they allowed the system to evolve to the point that those things happened and then we were caught..a nd the conservatives, after having supported the policies that got us into trouble from the start want to lay all the blame on liberals and claim that they and they alone have the "solutions".

The REAL solution was NOT to have cut the banking regulations, to not have worded them so specifically that all the banks had to do was create some new entity that suddenly would escape the current regulations, NOT to have cut taxes as they did..a nd yes, that goes for the lower income tax breaks and benefits as well, and above all else, not to have used the Social security fund as some kind of borrowing fund!

The tax cuts in the wake of 9/11 helped stave off a recession. The stimulus program in the wake of the 2008 crash has continued the recession.

And you REALLY don't know history. Conservatives were/are against bailouts; many Republicans wanted them. Democrats forced banks to lend money to low-income, high-risk individuals otherwise they would drag the bank managers before Congress and call them racist. Even Bush in 2007 informed Congress that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had to be reformed lest there be a major crash in its industry. The Democrats denied it (including Barney Franks famous video) and the housing market crashed. Maybe if the Democrats would stop taking stances and passing policies that give people more than they have earned, we'd stop living beyond our means and start being realistic about life.

[PLAYER57832]

WE are being asked to pay for things other people did irresponsibly.. specifically Wall street, the banking "leaders", health insurance companies (NOT health care workers!), pharmeceutical companies, and all those corporations that somehow could "no longer afford to stay in the US".. even though their owners would never dream of living anywhere else.

Which is why conservatives were AGAINST the bailouts and TARP, not for them. They screwed up, so let them fail. Quit paying them off.

BULL, again, "conservatives" or those touting that label were for all that. BUT, the REAL problem was that they allowed the system to evolve to the point that those things happened and then we were caught..a nd the conservatives, after having supported the policies that got us into trouble from the start want to lay all the blame on liberals and claim that they and they alone have the "solutions".

The REAL solution was NOT to have cut the banking regulations, to not have worded them so specifically that all the banks had to do was create some new entity that suddenly would escape the current regulations, NOT to have cut taxes as they did..a nd yes, that goes for the lower income tax breaks and benefits as well, and above all else, not to have used the Social security fund as some kind of borrowing fund!

The tax cuts in the wake of 9/11 helped stave off a recession. The stimulus program in the wake of the 2008 crash has continued the recession.

And you REALLY don't know history. Conservatives were/are against bailouts; many Republicans wanted them. Democrats forced banks to lend money to low-income, high-risk individuals otherwise they would drag the bank managers before Congress and call them racist. Even Bush in 2007 informed Congress that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had to be reformed lest there be a major crash in its industry. The Democrats denied it (including Barney Franks famous video) and the housing market crashed. Maybe if the Democrats would stop taking stances and passing policies that give people more than they have earned, we'd stop living beyond our means and start being realistic about life.

ALL of that is irrelevant to what I said. The economic problems of this country did not start with 9/11. They started with Reagan. Politicians were just able to pretend otherwise because oil in Alaska and the dot.com boom temporarily masked the problems.

And that bit about the environment is absolutely not irrelevant, because that is a BIG part of why we are currently having problems. It all gets down to excusing responsibility when it comes to making money, as if putting out a few bucks would seriously and truly erase any damage.. other than minor product issues.

[BigBallinStalin]

I will benefit if there's a default. Actually, I'm already doing so as all the gold bullion that I bought when gold was at the spot price of around $1,400 has now gone up to somewhere around $1,700 - $1,800 per 1 ounce coin. It depends on the store. My silver proof coins have also gone up. I've already made a few phone calls to various dealers who've made some offers so I'll have to decide if I want to go ahead and sell now or wait until the economy becomes worse.

Anybody here buy platinum or palladium coins? I'm not sure if I can turn them around for a profit like gold and silver. I see a new thread subject developing...

I invested in tangible goods:
















I bought too many mortars...

[thegreekdog]

The Jesuit order

they control the world

politics is just a load of BS, just a game

the fall of the US will the symbolic total and utter defeat of the Protestant Reformation

gannable I am so disappointed in you right now. It is Oh piss day that controls the cat lick lurch, which controls the jest do its.

The protestant crazies in their apocalyptic zionist fantasies are probably closest to the truth, as they pull they puds and do quasi maths attempting to work out when the world will end. Maybe instead of the book of revelation, they should spend more time on the book of daniel(the other christian/jewish apoclypse book). If we believe the fundamentalist christian doctrine, we are living in the end days, we are in the days of the feet of mud. The world is going to end, and it is going to end badly.

Enough of the bad news. The good news. Whilst the American economy is being flushed down the dunny by the elected servants of the american people. The australian economy is going great. Thanks america and china

Wait, wait... Protestant zionists? What?

[PLAYER57832]

Enough of the bad news. The good news. Whilst the American economy is being flushed down the dunny by the elected servants of the american people. The australian economy is going great. Thanks america and china

but that's "impossible", their taxes are more than ours and they don't have all the private research we have here

[jimboston]

Enough of the bad news. The good news. Whilst the American economy is being flushed down the dunny by the elected servants of the american people. The australian economy is going great. Thanks america and china

but that's "impossible", their taxes are more than ours and they don't have all the private research we have here

Makes perfect sense to me... they don't have a culture of entitlement, nor do they have 50% of the population paying no taxes. So they don't have those drains sucking away on the economy.