real bad results in c and a (case resolved.)

[owenshooter]

i just can't believe that there is a 19 page thread about this, which even has a former admin weighing in on the controversy, and nobody from the current administration has stopped by to explain things or assuage the confusion/outrage. there was time to put a sticky in the GD about posting lag problems, but not enough time to make a comment about the questions being raised here? i think that is a real disservice to the community. you can interpret the events how you want, i for one like blitz and have avoided weighing in on this publicly, but something occurred that can not be ignored. i really feel a lot of this could have been squashed with a simple apology to the community in the forums, but that boat has long sailed. ignoring this will not make it go away, there are real questions about what has happened and the communal perception that nothing was down to truly punish whatever it is that occurred. games are still being played with the jobi account, and to me, i have a real issue with that... anyway, this just keeps getting uglier and uglier and i don't know how it can have an end until someone steps up...-the black jesus

[Woodruff]

The amount of blame that is justified depends on Blitz's intent, and nobody can know what that was for sure. I know that some of you think you do, but that is only an opinion. Perhaps it was a thoughtless mistake.

No. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY that this was simply a thoughtless mistake. That is literally, yes literally, impossible.

As attacks become more vicious, it looks more and more to me like some players who hold a terrible grudge for past disagreements taking fortuitous revenge on poor Blitzy. Talk about kicking someone when they are down. And way to encourage Eddie.

I have never had any disagreement with Blitz. And my distaste for Eddie2 is in the records here well-versed. You are, quite simply, wrong.

[Bones2484]

As attacks become more vicious, it looks more and more to me like some players who hold a terrible grudge for past disagreements taking fortuitous revenge on poor Blitzy. Talk about kicking someone when they are down. And way to encourage Eddie.

I have never had any disagreement with Blitz. And my distaste for Eddie2 is in the records here well-versed. You are, quite simply, wrong.

Not to mention I have yet to see a "vicious" attack in this thread. If this was true, it would have been locked down a long time ago.

[greenoaks]

when was there an apology ?

i saw a mockup from Robinette, then one from another poster but no apology from him.

[Denise]

Your opening sentence does no justice to the cause of the accused. For what you are saying is that if he did not have intent then he was too stupid to see what the ramifications of his actions were. Logic dictates that to carry your argument one stage further means we have a complete idiot as a conqueror. Either he knew or he didn't, either way it does not reflect well upon him.

True. I am saying it is possible that he did not have intent. I wouldn't necessarily call it stupidity, but obviously he was not able to see what the ramifications were. This does not reflect well upon him, but it also does not make him a cheater.

You use the word 'thoughtless' in a somewhat offhand way. Are you saying that this man who holds himself out to be a great player on a game that actually requires a skill of risk management to ascertain one's rank is without this skill? This is a man who has spent years setting himself on a platform of probity and success at playing, be that through points, medals or in the forums.

ha ha yes, he does like to boast. What I meant was that it is possible he joined the tourny games without thinking of the consequences to the op's and to the players. ie: thoughtless. I had to look up probity.

You then continue with the argument that you see no reason for scheming....well neither do we. It was bound to be found out, after all a conqueror is generally under scrutiny anyway. In the absence of a truly believable statement to the contrary we can only assume this 'scheming' was the motivating factor.

If you are assuming, then you can't know that it is true...

Your words 'He did offer an apology of sorts' speak volumes. If even you, a supporter, cannot bring themselves to say an outright 'apology' what chance is there the rest of us are going to take any notice?

I'm not a Blitz supporter. Perhaps you're right about the apology, but I happen to believe anything Blitz would say would be shredded to pieces.

Finally you go on to talk about attacks being more vicious. The attacks are simply an exploration of the truth. Once again, in the absence of any other real statement with constructed reasoning as to the act taken this subject will not go away. It may look to you as if those with a grudge are taking revenge, but this does not bear close scrutiny. Revenge can only be delivered if the chance presents itself. Sitsaholic had plenty of opportunity to put this to bed quickly right at the start. He need only have come forward, held his hands up and then those who wanted to take revenge would have had the wind taken out of their sails in double quick time. This he did not do. We received lightweight posts from a couple of his clan, a 3rd party apology care of Robinette, and finally the odd supporter coming out with further lightweight reasons and in your case, caveats, to their defending of him.

I doubt that this would have been the case. I think had he said something, it would have caused more uproar. I'm not really defending him. I am just saying that without proof or being found guilty by admin, this should end.

[SC MAN]

To begin with, outside of the parties involved, no one knows what really happened!...So, I can only reference my expierence over the past 3 years when I was a member of Blitz's team or played against him. The bottom line with me is that Blitz has always participated in CC with the utmost integrity and I accept his word. I never understand why some people are quick to attack the guy at the top without the facts and go with their gut and want to hang him!....I seriously doubt that there would be this much made of this ordeal if 'Blitz' wasn't one of the CC players involved. I try to be objective and while all are entitled to their opinions, I stand by Blitz and his earned integrity and feel that a 'Warning' is the worst case punishment that his actions should result in.....

[Bones2484]

To begin with, outside of the parties involved, no one knows what really happened!...So, I can only reference my expierence over the past 3 years when I was a member of Blitz's team or played against him. The bottom line with me is that Blitz has always participated in CC with the utmost integrity and I accept his word. I never understand why some people are quick to attack the guy at the top without the facts and go with their gut and want to hang him!....I seriously doubt that there would be this much made of this ordeal if 'Blitz' wasn't one of the CC players involved. I try to be objective and while all are entitled to their opinions, I stand by Blitz and his earned integrity and feel that a 'Warning' is the worst case punishment that his actions should result in.....

You do realize that by "accepting his word" that you are acknowledging he broke the rules? The only statement has has made on this was an admission.

[owenshooter]

i am still confused by the admins saying they could only punish according the letter of the written CC laws and a warning was given because it was a first infraction. as a member that received a 6 month ban for an unwritten rule, which remains unwritten and which has never been enforced again (i was warned by a member of the jr. mint mod squad, but clapper dismissed that as not official), i know that CC can and does go off script in order to punish users. again, i find it amusing that infractions in the forum are dealt with more harshly than infractions/cheating in the game aspect of this site. when something affects the scoreboard, it affects us all. when something is done in the forums, it shakes up less than a whopping 3% of CC users who actually visit the forums. CC has stepped outside of the box in order to punish other members on the site when they deemed they had crossed a line that had never been seen or imagined before. and i am just really taken back by their silence on this matter. i just want a real explanation and for CC to plug a massive loophole that has been exposed in the points/rules of the game...-the black jesus

[gannable]

Oh poor Blitzy???????


what about me???

i'llnever make a Blitzaholic list again. He foed me months ago for not kneeling before his Lordship

my life hasnt been the same ever since

i should be the one crying.

[king achilles]

Eddie2, that last sentence I made was meant as a question. I mistakenly placed a period instead of a question mark. Next time, before stirring the crowd, try to confirm this kind of things first rather than be your usual annoying self.

[eddie2]

Eddie2, that last sentence I made was meant as a question. I mistakenly placed a period instead of a question mark. Next time, before stirring the crowd, try to confirm this kind of things first rather than be your usual annoying self.

lol i think all know it was a mistake in the email cause it didn't make sense. but it was funny and had 2 be posted. as for stirring the crowd you don't need me for that.

now since you obviously are posting how about adding some ideas as to how you could deal with this in future because it seems you put sitting rules in force that mean nothing as no punishments are issued to match the crime.

example

the games blitz joined illegally are still being sat by blitz taking jobis turns both them players should be kicked from the games.

[Woodruff]

i am still confused by the admins saying they could only punish according the letter of the written CC laws and a warning was given because it was a first infraction.

Exactly what I have been saying. This is simply another, far more egregious example of the lack of consistency in rule enforcement on this site. Sadly, it's just a matter of favoritism.

[king achilles]

If another situation arises, then we will investigate it according to what the facts will show. It may or may not give a different result.

If you do not agree with the verdict, go to your local police station and file a complaint.

Also if this thread is going into 'crucifying' blitzaholic or any other person for that matter, then this thread needs to be locked. For those posts that you see as flaming/baiting or trolling, feel free to report all those posts that you deem as such.

[Woodruff]

If you do not agree with the verdict, go to your local police station and file a complaint.

Wow. I didn't think it could happen. I'm actually done with this site. The favoritism in this case is ridiculous. I'm voting with my money and my feet, effective immediately.

King Achilles, I'm thoroughly disappointed in you, not that you care since I'm not one of the favored ones anyway. Maybe someone can have Blitzaholic finish off my turns for me.

[safariguy5]

i am still confused by the admins saying they could only punish according the letter of the written CC laws and a warning was given because it was a first infraction. as a member that received a 6 month ban for an unwritten rule, which remains unwritten and which has never been enforced again (i was warned by a member of the jr. mint mod squad, but clapper dismissed that as not official), i know that CC can and does go off script in order to punish users. again, i find it amusing that infractions in the forum are dealt with more harshly than infractions/cheating in the game aspect of this site. when something affects the scoreboard, it affects us all. when something is done in the forums, it shakes up less than a whopping 3% of CC users who actually visit the forums. CC has stepped outside of the box in order to punish other members on the site when they deemed they had crossed a line that had never been seen or imagined before. and i am just really taken back by their silence on this matter. i just want a real explanation and for CC to plug a massive loophole that has been exposed in the points/rules of the game...-the black jesus

Yeah, this is definitely an example of the flaw of one size fits all policy that the C&A mods have set up. First offenses are all treated the same, whether they're forum flaming, secret diplomacy, or sitter abuse. That's like saying shoplifting and burglary are the same thing because the suspect did it the first time. Definitely would like to see an evaluation made of this system and some sort of update or revision seems to be in order.

[Chariot of Fire]

I'm with you Woodruff. This is bollocks. There is simply NO WAY I will renew my membership on a site that endorses cheating and hands out responses to concerned members such as that above by KA.

Some people here seem to be missing the point and think all that Blitz did was join some tourney games for Jobiwan and then fail to take those turns. Well it's not just that. Blitz set up a whole series of games, invited Jobiwan (even though Jobiwan had been missing turns in all his non-Blitz games and Blitz was aware of it) and then entered Jobiwan in all of the new games he created. This isn't sitting for someone anymore - this is blatantly controlling an account.

And don't anticipate this to be a trolling or flaming thread because that's not it's intent. We're not here to say Blitz is a cheat and point fingers at him - we've already ascertained that - we are here to determine what sort of punishment should be meted out for such infractions.

I think a poll in which over 65% of quite a considerable voting figure have said a points reset or some sort of ban would be appropriate speaks volumes, don't you?

[Funkyterrance]

Eddie thinks I am a multi? Where's the love man???!!!
For some reason I don't feel at all threatened by this
He will have a hard time proving this however since It is a completely false assumption lol.

[Metsfanmax]

I'm reluctant to play this card, but guys, this is the internet. Y'all need to calm down. There's no reason to quit Conquer Club because you disagree with how a cheater was punished. Frankly, what happens to Blitz should have no bearing on whether you enjoy playing your games.

[QoH]

I'm reluctant to play this card, but guys, this is the internet. Y'all need to calm down. There's no reason to quit Conquer Club because you disagree with how a cheater was punished. Frankly, what happens to Blitz should have no bearing on whether you enjoy playing your games.

I haven't been reading every page, but I think what they are angry about is the inconsistency with the way the case has been handled by the Admin and Mods... And they don't want it to happen just because Blitz is the Conqueror. They want him treated the same as a cook would be

Am I on the right track?

[Funkyterrance]

I dunno, Woodruff has a point. I hope It doesn't come to him leaving and I appreciate his opinions but the best way to protest this kind of thing really is to take your money elsewhere. Just a majority vote by the community doesn't seem to hold much water in this issue. It's like when you get bad service at a restaurant; you can gripe and complain all you want but the only way you can really make a difference and really get the owner's attention is to diminish their customer base, starting with yourself.
I agree that KA's statement was inappropriate for an admin. Whatever a non-admin way say, it's an admin's job to remain cool. Bad form.

[Metsfanmax]

I'm reluctant to play this card, but guys, this is the internet. Y'all need to calm down. There's no reason to quit Conquer Club because you disagree with how a cheater was punished. Frankly, what happens to Blitz should have no bearing on whether you enjoy playing your games.

I haven't been reading every page, but I think what they are angry about is the inconsistency with the way the case has been handled by the Admin and Mods... And they don't want it to happen just because Blitz is the Conqueror. They want him treated the same as a cook would be

Am I on the right track?

QoH: That's basically right, people seem to believe that Blitz was let off lightly because of who he is. While that may or may not be accurate, the fact that Blitz is the Conqueror has cast quite a negative light on the whole controversy. Ironically, the people who think he's being treated differently only make a big deal out of this because he's the Conqueror; if this sort of "double standard" was followed in the C&A case of a private, there wouldn't be hundreds of posts about it. All in all, people just need to chill out, accept that the admins didn't feel that a ban/point reset was appropriate in this case, and move on. They should listen to the community on this issue, and enforce the rule more stringently in the future, but it would be ridiculous to go back and change the punishment now.

[QoH]

While I agree that the punishment was too light, I think that people should stop bitching; what's done is done, and we can't change it now.

However, if something like this happens again to a prominent member of the site, and the same treatment occurs, THEN people have the right to bitch, and shouldn't stop, because frankly, it would be ridiculous to see this happen again.

[Metsfanmax]

However, if something like this happens again to a prominent member of the site, and the same treatment occurs, THEN people have the right to bitch, and shouldn't stop, because frankly, it would be ridiculous to see this happen again.

Indeed. KA's little fit of baiting aside, I assume the admins are aware of how the community feels about this issue (due to this thread) and will perhaps treat such situations differently in the future.

[greenoaks]

While I agree that the punishment was too light, I think that people should stop bitching; what's done is done, and we can't change it now.

However, if something like this happens again to a prominent member of the site, and the same treatment occurs, THEN people have the right to bitch, and shouldn't stop, because frankly, it would be ridiculous to see this happen again.

that's crap, if another prominent member of the community does what he did then all they should get is a warning.

severe consequences are reserved for forum infringements.

[Chariot of Fire]

You are quite wrong. It has nothing to do with the fact he is Conqueror and everything to do with how he has conducted himself in the past and the very nature of his recent wrongdoing.

In Blitz's own words:

I have been conqueror for almost a year now, and several other times in the past, so, I don't need to cheat, in fact it goes against my own values as I have reported many cheats to the mods in private pm's over the years.

So here's a guy that lives by the rules and likes to use them to bring down others. Well now the shoe's on the other foot.

This is a site that relies on fair play and adopts a points system to govern a leaderboard. How do you think people such as myself - and doubtless others like me - feel when someone whose boasts we've had to read for years turns out to be a cheat?

He set up games. He then invited an absent player. He then logged into that account and accepted the invites and controlled that player's account. Is he kicked out of those games or given a points reset? No....he receives a warning, so it's all hunky dory in Conquerorland.

So what's the message I've got? That I can start some games and invite dormant TOFU members (whose passwords I possess) into those games and thereafter play their turns - and for this I will receive a warning as it's my first offence. Blitz has already received warnings in the past for his forum activities - and here's a third offence, a big one at that - but CC obviously loves him.

As for my membership and this being the internet. It's a game site equivalent of a game we all know very well. I don't think I'd like to sit a table where the player sitting next to me slips a few extra armies on to the board or starts playing on behalf of another guy sitting opposite me.