1000 Govt Expenditures We Can Cut Before Police n Teachers..

[Phatscotty]

wildlife studies

[Neoteny]

We could probably cut out most basic science research.

[THORNHEART]

I just heard the government voted to extend umemployment checks to the unemployed for up to two years...maybe we could cut this program and make people get jobs

[Symmetry]

I just heard the government voted to extend umemployment checks to the unemployed for up to two years...maybe we could cut this program and make people get jobs

There are more unemployed people than vacancies, of course. Still, it's always fun to see a fantasy-land argument that all unemployed people are just being lazy and could get a job if they wanted.

I'm guessing you've never had too many problems on this front. I could well be wrong- but have you spent a long period outside of education or employment?

[AAFitz]

I just heard the government voted to extend umemployment checks to the unemployed for up to two years...maybe we could cut this program and make people get jobs

There are more unemployed people than vacancies, of course. Still, it's always fun to see a fantasy-land argument that all unemployed people are just being lazy and could get a job if they wanted.

I'm guessing you've never had too many problems on this front. I could well be wrong- but have you spent a long period outside of education or employment?

Well, you are correct of course, and him saying: make people get jobs is of course ridiculous, since if they simply cant, they lose everything, and just cost more people their jobs...and...most of the unemployed, paid into the unemployment insurance for years, and Ill bet most will still not even take out all they ever put into it....

However, had his suggestion been to focus more money into job creation, it may....may have had some validity...but again...its not that easy to make jobs, and letting everyone lose everything simply deepens the recession, and again, many if not most of these people have been paying taxes, and in most cases, lots and lots of taxes for many many years, and they are simply asking for one more year of the unemployment insurance which they paid into, and carried everyone else during their hard times.

Essentially, the unemployment insurance, fica was set up based on what past economic history was present, and really, one year was sufficient for most to recover and find a job on par with what they had...but this time, so many jobs went away at once, that it simply isnt possible...and instead of just saying, f*ck it...let everyone in the country fail and see what happens, we are all pitching in to try and help it recover....sure, some dont want to...but thats only because they think they can survive total economic collapse of the USA, because maybe they have a few bucks and a currently steady job.

I think most are just not realizing how bad this can get. In any case, unemployment insurance is given only to those, who paid into the system, and is in no way a gift. Further, when they do get a job, they will be paying back into it, and probably even more than before.

Everyones job relies on everyone elses job to some degree. The dominoes with little exception are all connected. They are falling quite quickly, and an extra year to keep some more from having to walk away from an already troubled housing market...for again...people who have probably paid into the system, and many who have never before once taken anything out of it...are certainly entitled to another year to seriously try to find employment, since the fica they paid, really was supposed to protect them from unemployment....when it was set up...and they paid into it...one year was sufficient...Unfortunately...It just isnt right now.

[Phatscotty]

we can cut unemployment benefit abuse. that better?

[AAFitz]

we can cut unemployment benefit abuse. that better?

Cut all abuse. Even better. Though cutting abuse will of course require some government expenditures...

[THORNHEART]

ok i have found a job within 3 weeks of looking every time i have gone job hunting....i understand for high paying jobs this is not realistic....


I refuse to believe someone can not find a job for 2 whole years if they search diligently. Maybe it comes down to laziness and knowing that they will get a free check they have no motivation...lol thats foolish to think surely? I mean when given a choice of free money or hard worked money people will always choose to work for it. also I don't think anyone that is physically capable of working needs a free check that long. Maybe the prolem if they really cant find a job is they need to stop expecting the perfect job and the perfect salary and take what they can get...also uncle sam is ALWAYS hiring and thats what i would do if i was truely deseperate not accept money for two years like a bum.

[AAFitz]

Things that should be done to decrease costs/eliminate costs in this emergency:

1. Require governors on all cars in USA that do not allow them over 75 mph on any highway. Arguably, it could vary by state.

This would save a boatload on fuel needs, road wear, traffic enforcement costs, traffic safety costs. Its an absolutely simple move. No one should be breaking the law anyways, and theres just no reason why cars need to be able to go 150mph....except it is of course fun as hell, if you dont die, or wipe out an innocent family...which at that speed takes some luck and skill.

2. Continue to install traffic cameras to enforce stop signs and stop lights. Blowing through these gets people killed. It costs money to fix them, clean up the mess etc. Once again it saves on law enforcement costs.

3. Divert most of that to actual law enforcement, and not just traffic enforcement. Certainly savings will be had, but we cant exactly just cut law enforcement jobs or hours...but instead, we can free them up to protect us against the more important crimes, and once again, save money by doing so.

4. Eliminate the death penalty now. It will save millions in court costs, starting tomorrow. It far outweighs the cost of housing the criminals. Lock them up until technology reaches the point where appeals are not needed as much because we can eliminate all possibility of killing an innocent person...which is the primary reason for the appeals process. Again, overall savings will occur immediately. Most should be diverted back into law enforcement, but towards stopping the crimes that matter most. Maybe save some lives instead of spending millions trying to just take one out of revenge.

5. Cut fat out of every government agency. Just the fat. Not too many jobs, because if anything, I think its possible we need more government jobs, but ones that are more productive and useful. Unemployment insurance is helpful, but it would be better to pay people who are actually providing something, and paying taxes on it, than not. the govt cant hire everyone, but certainly, there are things that absolutely need to be done, such as investigating abuse as phatty said, and other areas that can be cut. there are many bankers out there, that would be perfect for this job. Hire away, and there is no doubt the return will be higher than their pay.

...all for now.

[Symmetry]

ok i have found a job within 3 weeks of looking every time i have gone job hunting....i understand for high paying jobs this is not realistic....


I refuse to believe someone can not find a job for 2 whole years if they search diligently. Maybe it comes down to laziness and knowing that they will get a free check they have no motivation...lol thats foolish to think surely? I mean when given a choice of free money or hard worked money people will always choose to work for it. also I don't think anyone that is physically capable of working needs a free check that long. Maybe the prolem if they really cant find a job is they need to stop expecting the perfect job and the perfect salary and take what they can get...also uncle sam is ALWAYS hiring and thats what i would do if i was truely deseperate not accept money for two years like a bum.

Refuse to believe all you want, but if there are more people looking for work than there are jobs available, then there will be people unemployed. It's easy to label them as lazy, or unwilling to work, but there have to be jobs that they can fill first.

[Phatscotty]

we can cut unemployment benefit abuse. that better?

Cut all abuse. Even better. Though cutting abuse will of course require some government expenditures...

not if we can make employees more efficient. A short time after the first small waves of abusers are weeded out(the low hanging fruit/most blatant abusers), it should free up a few positions (even just 1 position) and more and more waves spread out, and can all be done without an extra penny. probably cost a bit for the drug test kits though, unless they already have a shit load of them. however, i dont imagine the drug kit costing more than just 1 week of unemployment benefits (300ish) and that saves money in itself since fraudulent benefits would not be paid out, frees up more cash. Send all the savings to pay down the debt, while also creating stimulus by cutting the taxes hopefully about the same amount the unemployment agency is no longer needing. create likewise programs in other wasteful agencies. make a dent in the debt.

[AAFitz]

ok i have found a job within 3 weeks of looking every time i have gone job hunting....i understand for high paying jobs this is not realistic....


I refuse to believe someone can not find a job for 2 whole years if they search diligently. Maybe it comes down to laziness and knowing that they will get a free check they have no motivation...lol thats foolish to think surely? I mean when given a choice of free money or hard worked money people will always choose to work for it. also I don't think anyone that is physically capable of working needs a free check that long. Maybe the prolem if they really cant find a job is they need to stop expecting the perfect job and the perfect salary and take what they can get...also uncle sam is ALWAYS hiring and thats what i would do if i was truely deseperate not accept money for two years like a bum.

You cannot get the kinds of jobs that most are on unemployment for. If a person has been making a certain amount for 10 years, they have been paying fica insurance based on that. They had no real reason to suspect we would have the biggest economic meltdown most of us have ever seen, so their expenses are probably relative to their income. So, they cant just go out and get that job you just got, though Im sure your spot will be available three weeks from now....because they simply cant survive on it. But more importantly, these people contributed that money. They paid in for 20 to 30 years in many cases, and that adds up to quite a bit. Granted, the money went to pay for those unemployed at the time, but still, they paid their dues. These people are not slackers for the most part. The jobs just arent there, and in many cases, its not really their fault.

In any case, I hope your new job doesn't require you to know how to type, or spell. Good luck with it though.

[Phatscotty]

ok i have found a job within 3 weeks of looking every time i have gone job hunting....i understand for high paying jobs this is not realistic....


I refuse to believe someone can not find a job for 2 whole years if they search diligently. Maybe it comes down to laziness and knowing that they will get a free check they have no motivation...lol thats foolish to think surely? I mean when given a choice of free money or hard worked money people will always choose to work for it. also I don't think anyone that is physically capable of working needs a free check that long. Maybe the prolem if they really cant find a job is they need to stop expecting the perfect job and the perfect salary and take what they can get...also uncle sam is ALWAYS hiring and thats what i would do if i was truely deseperate not accept money for two years like a bum.

you missed this when you were on vacation. just pointing out, seeing some over lapping.

check it out http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... s#p2514982

[AAFitz]

we can cut unemployment benefit abuse. that better?

Cut all abuse. Even better. Though cutting abuse will of course require some government expenditures...

not if we can make employees more efficient. A short time after the first small waves of abusers are weeded out(the low hanging fruit/most blatant abusers), it should free up a few positions (even just 1 position) and more and more waves spread out, and can all be done without an extra penny. probably cost a bit for the drug test kits though, unless they already have a shit load of them. however, i dont imagine the drug kit costing more than just 1 week of unemployment benefits (300ish) and that saves money in itself since fraudulent benefits would not be paid out, frees up more cash. Send all the savings to pay down the debt, while also creating stimulus by cutting the taxes hopefully about the same amount the unemployment agency is no longer needing. create likewise programs in other wasteful agencies. make a dent in the debt.

Do you honestly think, that right now, if taxes are cut, that people are going to go out and spend that money, and put it into the economy?

The reason why most are fighting for lower taxes, is because they realize how bad this is, and are trying to save every penny they can to weather the storm. A tax cut will not create any kind of stimulus whatsoever in this economy. The percentage that does anything but go into bank accounts of those who at the moment are still doing rather well, will be too small to matter.

I agree, the money should not be wasted, but at the same time, it does have to be collected, and in large part from the people who do not want to pay them....which of course is everyone....but If the economy slips further, or it gets worse, those few extra percentage points that hopefully....hopefully...hopefully go back into actually improving the economy, will save them from ever having to know what many others are feeling right now.

The problem is control of what is done with the money...and obviously so far, we have still seen so much waste and fraud in some areas, that it makes you question if anyone really is even taking this seriously.

So, I feel we paying taxes, have no choice but to pay them...we must invest them...we must help bail the ship, because while we may not have put the hole in it ourselves, we are sure as hell going to drown if it goes down. The fact that maybe its after everyone else has, is fairly irrlevant

[Phatscotty]

we can cut unemployment benefit abuse. that better?

Cut all abuse. Even better. Though cutting abuse will of course require some government expenditures...

not if we can make employees more efficient. A short time after the first small waves of abusers are weeded out(the low hanging fruit/most blatant abusers), it should free up a few positions (even just 1 position) and more and more waves spread out, and can all be done without an extra penny. probably cost a bit for the drug test kits though, unless they already have a shit load of them. however, i dont imagine the drug kit costing more than just 1 week of unemployment benefits (300ish) and that saves money in itself since fraudulent benefits would not be paid out, frees up more cash. Send all the savings to pay down the debt, while also creating stimulus by cutting the taxes hopefully about the same amount the unemployment agency is no longer needing. create likewise programs in other wasteful agencies. make a dent in the debt.

Do you honestly think, that right now, if taxes are cut, that people are going to go out and spend that money, and put it into the economy?

The reason why most are fighting for lower taxes, is because they realize how bad this is, and are trying to save every penny they can to weather the storm. A tax cut will not create any kind of stimulus whatsoever in this economy. The percentage that does anything but go into bank accounts of those who at the moment are still doing rather well, will be too small to matter.

I agree, the money should not be wasted, but at the same time, it does have to be collected, and in large part from the people who do not want to pay them....which of course is everyone....but If the economy slips further, or it gets worse, those few extra percentage points that hopefully....hopefully...hopefully go back into actually improving the economy, will save them from ever having to know what many others are feeling right now.

The problem is control of what is done with the money...and obviously so far, we have still seen so much waste and fraud in some areas, that it makes you question if anyone really is even taking this seriously.

So, I feel we paying taxes, have no choice but to pay them...we must invest them...we must help bail the ship, because while we may not have put the hole in it ourselves, we are sure as hell going to drown if it goes down. The fact that maybe its after everyone else has, is fairly irrlevant

Great. The stimulus was just a side project. I agree most people SHOULD be saving every penny, but saying that a majority or even considerable segment of people are saving every penny is not accurate. While we are on the right track, because more and more people are saving.
But it would create at least some stimulus, and maximize peoples freedom to spend OR keep more of their earnings as they see best fit. Of course, I brought my blackboard...



yes see I am impressed and it's the right direction, but we are not at the point yet where people stop spending money on Tablets and I-pads. Here is some perspective to go with it

[Phatscotty]

Our Economy is based on consumption, and until that changes the economic dictators are going to do everything they can to keep us able to buy their junk. Just look around, we are now at the point, where the fed is almost paying the big banks to borrow the money they create from thin air. Dangit this should be in a different thread. So to keep true, because I really think we can come up with 1000 things we can cut before police and food programs. I like how people from all political backgrounds are participating, except for "The Canadian"

[THORNHEART]

Fitz m8...you brought up an interesting piont.

The courts and death penalty....

How about we return to the death penalty in full force and make the death penalty applicable to other "serious" crimes. Also return to giving swift and speedy trails as is the right of american citizens....This would DEECREASE the amount of murder and rape and kidnapping and other henious crimes causing less cases and less law enforcement to be needed also it would decrease court costs because there wouldnt be 7 years of trials...SCOTT PETERSON....Go cut the root of the problem don't trim it off.

[Phatscotty]

I think we ought to cut woodruffs social security check...

Given that I won't see one for 20+ years and not likely then...feel free.

Interestingly, in 20 years, before Obama care, the amount of money America will owe allows only for debt service and a little bit of social security. All the rest of the government will have to close down.

[Woodruff]

I think we ought to cut woodruffs social security check...

Given that I won't see one for 20+ years and not likely then...feel free.

Interestingly, in 20 years, before Obama care, the amount of money America will owe allows only for debt service and a little bit of social security. All the rest of the government will have to close down.

Precisely my point.

[Phatscotty]

I think we ought to cut woodruffs social security check...

Given that I won't see one for 20+ years and not likely then...feel free.

Interestingly, in 20 years, before Obama care, the amount of money America will owe allows only for debt service and a little bit of social security. All the rest of the government will have to close down.

Precisely my point.

That 20 years does not include ObamaCare. They are crashing it on purpose, which explains why you can literally see the politicians GRABBING AS MUCH SHIT AS THEY CAN!

[BigBallinStalin]

so much the better, but I doubt we'll get a little revolution in our lives.

[thegreekdog]

Ooh, I have some good ones:

(1) Drugs (I agree with MeDeFe).
(2) In Philadelphia, every public school child gets "free" breakfast, whether their parents provide them breakfast or not. I want that cut.
(3) Government contractors.
(4) Military contracts for unnecessary equipment.

[Woodruff]

(2) In Philadelphia, every public school child gets "free" breakfast, whether their parents provide them breakfast or not. I want that cut.

I might argue that this is actually a savings. My rationale is this...by giving the free breakfast to ALL children, nobody has to track "who gets it and who doesn't", which can be a paperwork nightmare. Someone's gotta handle all that paperwork, both at the school level and the school district level...that's pay. It may well be cheaper just to give it to everyone...if that makes sense.

[PLAYER57832]

I'm really not sure why I said that, as bottled water is one of the few areas in which the government trounces the private industry. I guess it just came to my mind when thinking of dumb wastes of money. Bottled water is a monument to the stupidity of man. .

So you think companies ought to be able to sell, as "pure" water that would not even meet basic tapwater standards for purity? Because that is what is at stake. Right now, bottled water is less highly regulated than your drinking water. AND remember, we are talking about profit-making companies, so by rights they ought to be taxes to pay for this supervision.

[thegreekdog]

(2) In Philadelphia, every public school child gets "free" breakfast, whether their parents provide them breakfast or not. I want that cut.

I might argue that this is actually a savings. My rationale is this...by giving the free breakfast to ALL children, nobody has to track "who gets it and who doesn't", which can be a paperwork nightmare. Someone's gotta handle all that paperwork, both at the school level and the school district level...that's pay. It may well be cheaper just to give it to everyone...if that makes sense.

I might agree with your possible argument, except that it's Philadelphia. As someone very intelligent once said, "I could make Philadelphia fiscally responsible again. I'd just go to every fifth office and fire the person in the office."

Um... my point is that there is plenty of paperwork under the current breakfast plan.