Ok, Case 1 : MeDeFe (simply because he seems to have the least amount of posts and therefore is the shortest at this point) Some of this I quoted earlier and MeDeFe responded to so forgive me for repeating...His response post is also included below.
not counting his earliest posts
MeDeFe wrote:betiko wrote:strike wolf wrote:Of course if I had ever lernt how to read than I would have known that wasn't post 100...
lol, you tried hard for it, and you made it!!
unvote, vote strike wolf!! 
about the question, no cause i like very scientific methods, like posting the number 100 post. voting for the guy below me is too random. anyway, if we all vote for the guy below us i m not sure we would go very far!!
I suggest we all vote for the guy who s name is below the same person, I also suggest that this person we choose to lynch is scum.
Good idea.
unvote
vote betiko
- I interpreted this as a joke vote although it potentially could be otherwise
MeDeFe wrote:Leitz wrote:To answer betikos question of trust: nobody, if anything by asking that question I'm suspecting you are up to no good.
Should we lynch him then?
- while he could be continuing with his previous joke vote it seems a little scummier
MeDeFe wrote:strike wolf wrote:Well honestly I'm not really buying into any of the current cases...I don't really think there's anything to Rodion's questioning of leitz, I don't really find the betiko case that strong and the rodion is basically non-existant. If anything I buy the betiko case more than the others but I still find it fairly weak even for day 1.
Of course it's weak, but so are most cases on day 1. Rodion's asking for a reasoning is... about as non-scummy as things get, though.
Betiko's questions, "would you be ok with lynching the person below you" and "who do you trust" are odd, though. If everyone answered honestly they could be used to figure out scumbuddies or mason/lover partners. But expecting honest answers is foolish in the first place, so what's he after?
- definitely mixed up who asked what here... was quick to vote for betiko based on strike's suggestion and not who asked what but then wants to know what betiko is up to. While it seemed to start off as a joke vote it seems to be getting more serious here. That makes me wonder if it was ever a joke vote? Still a weak case so far though
MeDeFe wrote:dazza2008 wrote:MeDeFe wrote:strike wolf wrote:Well honestly I'm not really buying into any of the current cases...I don't really think there's anything to Rodion's questioning of leitz, I don't really find the betiko case that strong and the rodion is basically non-existant. If anything I buy the betiko case more than the others but I still find it fairly weak even for day 1.
Of course it's weak, but so are most cases on day 1. Rodion's asking for a reasoning is... about as non-scummy as things get, though.
Betiko's questions, "would you be ok with lynching the person below you" and "who do you trust" are odd, though. If everyone answered honestly they could be used to figure out scumbuddies or mason/lover partners. But expecting honest answers is foolish in the first place, so what's he after?
Was the first question not asked by Rodion?
Anyway I did not find either question particularly scummy. To me it just seemed like 2 guys trying to get some kind of conversation going which can only be a good thing.
You're right, Rodion asked the first one. I must've gotten that mixed up somehow.
ok...
Then we have betiko asking one weird question, and Rodion asking a weird question and later a non-scummy question. I'm still leaning towards putting pressure on betiko, though.
continues to put on the pressure - and giving the impression that the original vote was based on betiko's question - But it appears to have been based on strike's comment instead. I'm wondering how much he was skimming?
MeDeFe wrote:betiko wrote:So just so we are clear, for each game, the mod can invent a new type of role or he has to stick to a determined list? we could be confronted to a role no one knows about, even the most experienced mafia players right?
The mod could make up every role for every player from scratch, but it's easier to use roles that have been played and tested and are known to be balanced.
- general information - nothing really of benefit to town
MeDeFe wrote:Day 1 passing by with as little as this happening would be bad for town, though. We need information to go on if we want to be able to find the scum.
- agree with this... but still a general statement (not really saying anything)
MeDeFe wrote:betiko wrote:I hope i m not going to get another backfire for taking another initiative but i might have an idea.. why don t we take the list of players (but ourselves) and grade from 0 to 3 the level of suspicion we have for each? our entries would all be submited to safari and we couldn t see the results before everyone turns in his list. safari would then post all the lists at the same time (mentioning whose is which), so there is no bandwagoning. it might be a bit against the spirit of the game though...
it might help us in the process of voting?
I'm not sure you could make yourself look more suspicious if you were trying. Are you trying?
And yes, that's pretty much completely contrary to the spirit of the game. In RL you have to spot small hints and get really lucky quickly, on a forum it becomes a game of information where you look for inconsistencies, try to find out who's lying, try to spot people who vote together, see who started which bandwagon, who gave which wagon momentum, and so on and so forth. Forget about making lists. Even if we could get one completely honest list from every player they wouldn't be much help (and we wouldn't get honest lists). At this point I'd rate every player as moderately suspicious on the list you proposed.
oh, btw,
unvote, since it looks like the betiko wagon isn't going anywhere. I'll have to look into the newest wagon a bit more before I commit either way.
MeDeFe wrote:It's tricky to post something relevant when you log on, see 2 unread pages and have time to read only one, then you log off, come back some time later, and there are 3 unread pages. Finally I've had the time to read them all.
I was a bit uncertain of SW's case against BGtB initially, but after seeing how it has developed it looks strong enough to me for a vote BGtheBrain. BGtB has consistently failed to defend himself and properly refute the points brought against him.
- an attempt to explain the fact that he has not posted much?
MeDeFe wrote:trinicardinal wrote:MeDeFe wrote:betiko wrote:I hope i m not going to get another backfire for taking another initiative but i might have an idea.. why don t we take the list of players (but ourselves) and grade from 0 to 3 the level of suspicion we have for each? our entries would all be submited to safari and we couldn t see the results before everyone turns in his list. safari would then post all the lists at the same time (mentioning whose is which), so there is no bandwagoning. it might be a bit against the spirit of the game though...
it might help us in the process of voting?
I'm not sure you could make yourself look more suspicious if you were trying. Are you trying?
And yes, that's pretty much completely contrary to the spirit of the game. In RL you have to spot small hints and get really lucky quickly, on a forum it becomes a game of information where you look for inconsistencies, try to find out who's lying, try to spot people who vote together, see who started which bandwagon, who gave which wagon momentum, and so on and so forth. Forget about making lists. Even if we could get one completely honest list from every player they wouldn't be much help (and we wouldn't get honest lists). At this point I'd rate every player as moderately suspicious on the list you proposed.
oh, btw,
unvote, since it looks like the betiko wagon isn't going anywhere. I'll have to look into the newest wagon a bit more before I commit either way.
Basically says that betiko is being suspicious but still unvotes because the wagon isn't moving - looking for a new one so obviously has no problems with bandwagonning and I find it strange that if you have just stated that someone is acting suspiciously that you will then leave them alone. chap has thoughts (albeit wrong) about me but at least he's trying to build a case - MeDeFe is suspicious but drops the case to look for another bandwagon? That does not make sense to me.
As far as I recall, betiko's behaviour had been generally put down to noobishness at that point. All I was doing was letting him know that he was still dropping scumtells like cheap candy at carnival.
Bandwagoning is what you do on day 1, you put pressure on people, see how they react, try to spot signs of scumminess, get a claim or two, maybe lynch someone. Yes, on day 1 I have little problem with bandwagoning, it's a necessary evil in order to get something to start from on day 2.
- his response to my previous case... once again sorry for the repetition but I feel it is important to get everything in one place so far.
MeDeFe wrote:Google says: "Betiko, is what you might say the French link? I speak some French, so the link is better than nothing."
- translation of the comment in French again not saying much
MeDeFe wrote:trinicardinal wrote:He seems to have played in at least one other mafia.... I never played with him so I can't say exactly how he plays..... Like I said earlier he must not be very excitable if all that has happened has not been enough to get him excited about any case. I still haven't seen anything to make me change my opinion from him about the submarining... I also think MeDeFe is submarining but I am keeping my vote on jim. Unless we get something really good from jim I think he should be our next lynch,... then we can examine other people. If he is town he is being an extremely unhelpful townie. If he is scum then we need to lynch him. My feeling is that he seems more likely to be scum than town
More like I'm drowning, really, I just read 3 and a half pages.
I looked through a few posts sorting by player, and I would say Rodion is the better target over jimfinn (or me). He's been talking a lot but not saying very much, it reminds me of the Terminator game where he got a town powerrole lynched after having made an
obviously fake counterclaim. He's just that good at writing walls of texts with convoluted reasoning and still appear really convincing.
Yes, some of this is gut feeling, but there's also Rodion's bringing up a jokevote from another game and attempt to use that to start a case in this one. That just reeks of scummy behaviour.
vote Rodion
lol I read that anytime Rodion is in a game at least on case brought against him will quote the Terminator game... you just added more evidence to that
. in all seriousness we could probably say that you have not said much either
MeDeFe wrote:Rodion wrote:MeDeFe wrote:He's been talking a lot but not saying very much, it reminds me of the Terminator game where he got a town powerrole lynched after having made an obviously fake counterclaim. He's just that good at writing walls of texts with convoluted reasoning and still appear really convincing.
People keep bringing Terminator up when they want to lynch me. They mentioned it in Memebase and in Magic: the Gathering. I wrote walls in both and at least 1 person outright confessed he/they wouldn't even read and simply keep his/their vote on me, because he was in Terminator and knew my playing style. I got lynched in both games. I flipped 3rd-party survivor and town jailkeeper, respectively.
Food for thought.
It's your own fault for playing so awesomely in that game despite technically messing it up completely. ;-p
still not saying much here...
So MeDeFe hasn't said that much for the game and has not posted very often. That last post was on the 3rd Dec and he has certainly been busy posting otherwise in the Forums. Where he picked a case his reasoning has not been very good and seems to be more after the fact justification with possibly some skimming thrown in. I have to review other cases and I have been fastposted several times in organising this one,. Rodion in particular has raised a good case on chap and I am also interested in seeing his response to that one. I'll do what I can when I can.. probably at best tonight or tomorrow.
