Hong Kong 'civil society' in action

[jimboston]

You're confusing the issue.

Nope.

Not confusing anything.

mrswdk stayed Taiwan was “part of “ China.

I made a comment saying the Taiwanese might object to that.

She/he then split hairs about this technical BS... but the simple fact is that Taiwan isn’t really “part of” China in any meaningful way right now today.

The rest is splitting hairs and I don’t care about it...

Taiwan and China may reunite at some point in the future... but now they not united.

[Dukasaur]

By all means, fall back on semantic games and refuse to learn anything. This is your right, and I do not challenge it.

[mrswdk]

So you're going to ignore the fact you claimed that in China there would 'certainly never (be) compensation' awarded to people wrongfully convicted of crimes, despite all the evidence that in China wrongfully convicted people are routinely given compensation by the government?

I wonder which page from 1984 you will quote at me next. Hate Week? Room 101? Or perhaps you will instead realise the irony of repeatedly quoting Cold War propaganda while simultaneously accusing foreign governments of manipulating the truth.

The occasional odd exception does not disprove the rule.

Okay, you win. Reds Under The Beds. The Chinese and Russians are all evil. I can't wait until Glorious Trump flies into Beijing Peking, capital of the evil Qing Dynasty, to decapitate Xi Jinping and declare peace and justice to all of China's Nazi China's long-suffering people. May the Hong Kong rioters burn the city to the ground. I love hamburgers.

You phrase it like that to make it sound like some kind of a nationalist issue.

You make it a nationalist issue when you say things like 'the Chinese government would never acknowledge wrongful convictions and certainly never pay compensation for wrongful convictions', then refuse to accept that you were blatantly wrong. You wouldn't do that if the country in question was France or New Zealand, so your views are clearly based on 'China' rather than any more objective assessment.

[The Chinese government] don't have to fear being thrown out in elections.

Every government, including the Chinese government, needs to maintain political legitimacy or else it will end up being chucked out by some means. An election is not the only way for a government to gain political legitimacy or the only way for people to get rid of a government, as you are surely aware.

The Chinese government has for the last few decades pinned its political legitimacy on economic growth ('we deserve to be in power because we are continuing to grow the economy'), and more recently has started to sometimes add national security as another justification to its retention of power.

As you say there are a lot of governments who use 'you got to vote' as a way of preserving their legitimacy. Given that voter turnout in the US and France has collapsed to 55%, and is not much better in Canada (60-70%) or other Western European countries (Spain: 65-70%, UK and Germany: just over 70%), it would appear that an increasing number of people don't believe that any more.

[jimboston]

By all means, fall back on semantic games and refuse to learn anything. This is your right, and I do not challenge it.

It’s not games.

My point was/is simply that mrswdk’s overreaching statement that “Taiwan is part of China” is not accurate and too simplistic and the Taiwanese people might object. My comment never discussed the official (and complex) positions of the Chinese or Taiwanese governments.

I’ve never studied / nor do I care about the official government positions. These are legalistic and often ‘spun’ by the governments to propagandize their own message and goals.

I do care, and know quite a bit, about the feelings of actual Chinese and Taiwanese people. I worked in high tech and have had personal relationships with many natives from BOTH of those countries, and have had conversations about the subject... typically after/around some related news story, like if there’s some sable rattling or military activity in the Taiwan Strait that gets on the news. One company, the married bosses were from China (wife) and Taiwan (husband).... and I would talk about the subject with them, but always separately, never together. Obviously my conversations were limited to a handful of people over the years, and all these people were educated immigrants... so the sample size is not representative of the populations of either land. Still, I think these sources are in some ways better than biased American news sources... or at least given\ me additional perspectives.

[Dukasaur]

By all means, fall back on semantic games and refuse to learn anything. This is your right, and I do not challenge it.

It’s not games.

My point was/is simply that mrswdk’s overreaching statement that “Taiwan is part of China” is not accurate and too simplistic and the Taiwanese people might object. My comment never discussed the official (and complex) positions of the Chinese or Taiwanese governments.

I’ve never studied / nor do I care about the official government positions. These are legalistic and often ‘spun’ by the governments to propagandize their own message and goals.

I do care, and know quite a bit, about the feelings of actual Chinese and Taiwanese people. I worked in high tech and have had personal relationships with many natives from BOTH of those countries, and have had conversations about the subject... typically after/around some related news story, like if there’s some sable rattling or military activity in the Taiwan Strait that gets on the news. One company, the married bosses were from China (wife) and Taiwan (husband).... and I would talk about the subject with them, but always separately, never together. Obviously my conversations were limited to a handful of people over the years, and all these people were educated immigrants... so the sample size is not representative of the populations of either land. Still, I think these sources are in some ways better than biased American news sources... or at least given\ me additional perspectives.

Sometimes you can draw a clear line between the interests of the government and the interests of the people, but in the case of this particular issue, the interests of the people are the interests of the government. The debate between Independence versus Single China is one of the centrepieces of every election.

[armati]

jimboston
You make a good point concerning Taiwan doesnt see itself as part of China.
Its been a long time since Ive looked at the war that got the place where it is now, but I do recall, two separate groups one ending in Taiwan.

Duk
Your absolutely right about being lucky to live in Canada, your right about how things work in Russia too.


Your wrong about Carlin tho, the right to right this way is not an exaggeration.(he is brilliant and figured things out without the internet)

The list of police killing with impunity or wrongful incarceration, government theft of property, civil forfeiture etc etc is obvious and really too long to list.
You really do have to ignore it not to see it.

I mention the ndaa, national defense authorization act, been around a long time, it was updated a couple years ago, you can be taken, held without representation,no phone call, held indefinitely and nobody you know needs to be notified.
PM Harper signed a paper saying the americans can come into canada and take who they want, economic action plan, I forget which page, its been awhile since Ive spoken of it.
We have facilities around the world where we hold people without trial, Guantanamo,Poland and others

Epstein is a recent prime example, did that scumbag have rights to a trial? Under our laws he did, but they kinda get applied how our rulers decide at the time.
Not a chance that guy had a hope of getting near a trial.

The governments are not dif from each other, they simply control people in dif ways.

Geez, lets not forget 911, if a person actually believes some guy from some cave took 30 days cessna lessons captured a passenger jet with a box cutter not once but 3 times on the same day etc etc could actually achieve that, to be honust a great many people believe it but people are notoriously stupid.

Did those people in the towers and building 7 have rights?

Im gonna stop there, the examples of no rights are way too many to list.
I said enuff to make the point.

[mrswdk]

I worked in high tech and have had personal relationships with many natives from BOTH of those places

Ah great, maybe we can finally get an answer to that age old question then: is the 'sideways vagina' thing true or is that just an urban legend?

[NomadPatriot]

I worked in high tech .

being a Janitor does not actually count... they only remembered your name because you scrubbed the toilets..

[mrswdk]

Pictures emerge of the journalist held for hours by Hong Kong democracy champions, hands bound in democracy ties and occasionally falling into pretend periods of unconsciousness while the champions bravely prevented fascist paramilitary police posing as 'paramedics' from reaching the man under the guise of so-called 'emergency medical attention' (read: evacuating their spy back to the mothership):



All hail US-style democracy! Three cheers for Molotov Freedom Devices!

[NomadPatriot]

Pictures emerge of the journalist held for hours by Hong Kong democracy champions, hands bound in democracy ties and occasionally falling into pretend periods of unconsciousness while the champions bravely prevented fascist paramilitary police posing as 'paramedics' from reaching the man under the guise of so-called 'emergency medical attention' (read: evacuating their spy back to the mothership):



All hail US-style democracy! Three cheers for Molotov Freedom Devices!

he is so oppressed in the photo he is holding some sort of book or pamphlet he appears to be reading from....

[jimboston]

I worked in high tech and have had personal relationships with many natives from BOTH of those places

Ah great, maybe we can finally get an answer to that age old question then: is the 'sideways vagina' thing true or is that just an urban legend?

Urban Legend

Your welcome.

Or you could just get a mirror and check yourself out?

[jimboston]

Pictures emerge of the journalist held for hours by Hong Kong democracy champions, hands bound in democracy ties and occasionally falling into pretend periods of unconsciousness while the champions bravely prevented fascist paramilitary police posing as 'paramedics' from reaching the man under the guise of so-called 'emergency medical attention' (read: evacuating their spy back to the mothership):



All hail US-style democracy! Three cheers for Molotov Freedom Devices!

This picture proves nothing.

Source.

[Symmetry]

Pictures emerge of the journalist held for hours by Hong Kong democracy champions, hands bound in democracy ties and occasionally falling into pretend periods of unconsciousness while the champions bravely prevented fascist paramilitary police posing as 'paramedics' from reaching the man under the guise of so-called 'emergency medical attention' (read: evacuating their spy back to the mothership):



All hail US-style democracy! Three cheers for Molotov Freedom Devices!

This picture proves nothing.

Source.

He was a "journalist", to be fair, just a "journalist" from a Chinese state controlled "news agency". It's not really a surprise that mrsdwk somehow failed to mention that though.

As a heads up though- if the quote just says "journalist" and doesn't mention who they work for, it's probably dodgy.

[Dukasaur]

Pictures emerge of the journalist held for hours by Hong Kong democracy champions, hands bound in democracy ties and occasionally falling into pretend periods of unconsciousness while the champions bravely prevented fascist paramilitary police posing as 'paramedics' from reaching the man under the guise of so-called 'emergency medical attention' (read: evacuating their spy back to the mothership):



All hail US-style democracy! Three cheers for Molotov Freedom Devices!

he is so oppressed in the photo he is holding some sort of book or pamphlet he appears to be reading from....

The "booklet" is a Chinese passport. That's pretty much Standard Operating Procedure when you get into shit in a foreign country -- make sure everyone is aware you're a foreign citizen. It entitles you, at least in theory, to the protection of a foreign power, and sometimes that's enough to get you out of trouble. Sometimes even gets you a free ride home.

[mrswdk]

This picture proves nothing.

Source.

It's a pretty well-documented incident that was covered by all the major Western news outlets.

That's pretty much Standard Operating Procedure when you get into shit in a foreign country.

'Foreign country' isn't the phrase you're looking for here.

[jimboston]

This picture proves nothing.

Source.

It's a pretty well-documented incident that was covered by all the major Western news outlets.

That's pretty much Standard Operating Procedure when you get into shit in a foreign country.

'Foreign country' isn't the phrase you're looking for here.

So you’re not even gonna bother to include one source?

It wasn’t on my TV’s nightly news, soot didn’t happen... unless you provide a link.

The picture only shows someone being detained, doesn’t show torture.

[NomadPatriot]

So you’re not even gonna bother to include one source?

It wasn’t on my TV’s nightly news, soot didn’t happen... unless you provide a link..

says the guy who accuses people of being a racist without ever providing a source..



#Soot-Happens

[jimboston]

So you’re not even gonna bother to include one source?

It wasn’t on my TV’s nightly news, soot didn’t happen... unless you provide a link..

says the guy who accuses people of being a racist without ever providing a source..



#Soot-Happens

says the guy who regularly misquotes, doesn’t understand the use of context, and is a clear hypocrite.

[mrswdk]

This picture proves nothing.

Source.

It's a pretty well-documented incident that was covered by all the major Western news outlets.

That's pretty much Standard Operating Procedure when you get into shit in a foreign country.

'Foreign country' isn't the phrase you're looking for here.

So you’re not even gonna bother to include one source?

It wasn’t on my TV’s nightly news, soot didn’t happen... unless you provide a link.

The picture only shows someone being detained, doesn’t show torture.

This thread is about what is currently going on in Hong Kong. If you aren’t going to make even basic attempts to educate yourself about key events in the ongoing protests/riot then I don’t see why you are continuing to post in here. Even if your colleague’s partner’s ex-postman does happen to be from Taiwan.

[NomadPatriot]

This picture proves nothing.

Source.

It's a pretty well-documented incident that was covered by all the major Western news outlets.

That's pretty much Standard Operating Procedure when you get into shit in a foreign country.

'Foreign country' isn't the phrase you're looking for here.

So you’re not even gonna bother to include one source?

It wasn’t on my TV’s nightly news, soot didn’t happen... unless you provide a link.

The picture only shows someone being detained, doesn’t show torture.

This thread is about what is currently going on in Hong Kong. If you aren’t going to make even basic attempts to educate yourself about key events in the ongoing protests/riot then I don’t see why you are continuing to post in here. Even if your colleague’s partner’s ex-postman does happen to be from Taiwan.

i watched Chinatown while eating popcorn out of a bowl made in Taiwan... and the girl sitting next to me had borrowed a t-shirt from her girlfriend who went on vacation to Hong Kong in 1989... so i know everything..

[mrswdk]

Just a reminder that in the latest Hong Kong 'protests', hooligans chased and beat police with metal poles and threw bricks and petrol bombs at them:

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/20 ... ig-acl.cnn

This violence has of course received little to no coverage in Western media, because it does not play into their narrative of the big mean Beijing government. Thankfully at least one English language channel has showed the chaos these thugs are sowing though, enabling us all to appreciate it in OT.

[jimboston]

Just a reminder that in the latest Hong Kong 'protests', hooligans chased and beat police with metal poles and threw bricks and petrol bombs at them:

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/20 ... ig-acl.cnn

This violence has of course received little to no coverage in Western media, because it does not play into their narrative of the big mean Beijing government. Thankfully at least one English language channel has showed the chaos these thugs are sowing though, enabling us all to appreciate it in OT.

Interesting way to phrase the situation in Hong Kong. If this happened in New York or London you would have written;

“Latest news out of New York, police enforcing the fascist rule of the system were chased away by the people fighting for their freedoms. Even though the people were outgunned by the heavily armed forces of corrupt government, the people prevailed in their righteousness.”

[mrswdk]

When people rose up in Ferguson 2014 or London 2011 they were responding to the violence of the state. The protesters in Hong Kong are responding to the peaceful debate of a new law within their local legislature. Two different situations.

When citizens harass and intimidate British MPs outside Parliament or at their constituency offices over their stance on Brexit, and get arrested for it, I have full support for the British police. The guy who shot an MP because she supported Remain was a terrorist, plain and simple.

Nice strawman, though. Helped you completely avoid having to reflect on the violent conduct of the Hong Kong protesters, which was presumably your aim all along.