Land of the Free

[Balsiefen]

No-ones posted this yet so I thought I might as well:

Prison population per 100,000 inhabitants
USA-756
Russia-611
New Zealand-186
UK-148
Netherlands-128
Australia-157
Canada-107
Italy-104
Germany-95
Turkey-91
France-85
Sweden-82
Denmark-77
Japan-62
Iceland-22

[72o]

Has anyone on here actually ever been to prison in your respective countries? This is completely off the cuff, with absolutely no support whatsoever, but my theory is that the prisons in other countries aren't the same as what we have in the US.

The human rights folks have made many prisons in the US very easy to live in, I'd be surprised if other countries were like that as well. This breeds a mentality of repeat offenders, as most ex-cons can't succeed in the marketplace with a blemish on their records, and they already know it's not that bad on the inside.

Plus, we have the entitlements of welfare, subsidized housing, food stamps, on and on and on, which breeds the mentality among the lower levels of society to be lazy and feed off of the government. They do far better this way than they would working. The larger the family of leeches, the more money the government hands out. This leads to population explosion among these folks, who generally are less educated. Compound this for several generations, and the only sources of income many of this demographic can fathom is government sponsored, or crime-related. Honest work is too difficult, and the rewards are not significant enough when compared to what the government hands out for free.

I don't know about other developed countries. Do they have entitlements similar to ours/on the same scale? What are the per-capita numbers on recipients?

[Symmetry]

Has anyone on here actually ever been to prison in your respective countries? This is completely off the cuff, with absolutely no support whatsoever, but my theory is that the prisons in other countries aren't the same as what we have in the US.

The human rights folks have made many prisons in the US very easy to live in, I'd be surprised if other countries were like that as well. This breeds a mentality of repeat offenders, as most ex-cons can't succeed in the marketplace with a blemish on their records, and they already know it's not that bad on the inside.

Plus, we have the entitlements of welfare, subsidized housing, food stamps, on and on and on, which breeds the mentality among the lower levels of society to be lazy and feed off of the government. They do far better this way than they would working. The larger the family of leeches, the more money the government hands out. This leads to population explosion among these folks, who generally are less educated. Compound this for several generations, and the only sources of income many of this demographic can fathom is government sponsored, or crime-related. Honest work is too difficult, and the rewards are not significant enough when compared to what the government hands out for free.

I don't know about other developed countries. Do they have entitlements similar to ours/on the same scale? What are the per-capita numbers on recipients?

Many of the countries listed above have far greater benefits and entitlements for those without jobs. Sweden is famous for the generosity of its benefits, for example. They don't imprison anywhere near as many people. I don't think that welfare causes crime. Indeed, the Swedish model would imply the opposite. Effectively targeted welfare can lift families out of poverty and ensure that children have the support they need.

On the subject of prison standards, again the theory that prisons are too nice doesn't really hold up. Asides from being famously overcrowded, the US prison system is noted for levels of violence, rape, and gang culture. Also, looking to other leading incarcerators, there really aren't any of them who are well know for pleasant prison conditions. Russia? Thailand? The only conclusion that can be drawn is that pleasant prison conditions are not a cause of high rates of incarceration.

[thegreekdog]

Comic boy, just wondering, what exactly is the point of this thread? I'm getting the following impressions:

(1) You don't approve of the U.S. prison population and are wondering what suggestions some might have to reduce the prison population.
(2) You don't approve of the U.S. prison population and use the U.S. prison population as evidence that people who think the U.S. is the best country in the world are mentally deficient.
(3) You don't approve of the U.S. military because they exist to kill people living in third world countries.

Are these points correct? Are there other points you are trying to make? If someone else wants to answer for comic boy, I'm all ears... er, eyes.

[Anarkistsdream]

The human rights folks have made many prisons in the US very easy to live in,

This right here shows you have certainly never been in one.

[anonymus]

The human rights folks have made many prisons in the US very easy to live in,

This right here shows you have certainly never been in one.

i think you should read up on for example swedish prisons.. In sweden the mentality is to rehabilitate during the sentance rather than like in the UK or US where the point is to punish the felon.. No matter what he does when he comes out.. In swedish prisons you can get your university degree if you are motivated.. all for free.. so once your done serving your sentence you have a shot at a real life with a real job..

havent been to a US prison and dont know to much about them other what ive seen in the odd documentary or read in some magazine.. but it doesnt seem to work whatever they are doing..

[72o]

The human rights folks have made many prisons in the US very easy to live in,

This right here shows you have certainly never been in one.

I have been in a minimum-security prison, though not as an inmate.

What I meant, and I guess I should have said, is that by my standards prisoners are afforded entirely too many privileges while in prison, therefore making it easy on them. They are allowed television, radios, computers, all sorts of electronics, lots of personal items, etc. They have private cells, and their cell doors are left open for the majority of the day so that they can go in and out to the main common area. They can take college classes and a host of other activities afforded them in the hopes that they better themselves.

If I had a stint in this facility, for a couple years or so, upon getting out, it would be difficult to get a job due to the felony on my record. I could then either sign up for the entitlements available to me, which would take years to get enrolled in all of the programs, get a low-paying job and barely scrape by, or I could commit another crime and go back to relative ease of living. Their room and board is paid. They have a certain status inside that they wouldn't in the real world. They have no real responsibility. Not to mention if I had a child where child support was payable, any job would not keep me above the poverty level after the garnishments. I'd be better off in prison, where they can't take what I don't have.

I think if we made prison the miserable place we think it is on TV shows like Oz, people wouldn't commit crimes with the frequency that they do now. That's a personal opinion, though.

[Symmetry]

The human rights folks have made many prisons in the US very easy to live in,

This right here shows you have certainly never been in one.

I have been in a minimum-security prison, though not as an inmate.

What I meant, and I guess I should have said, is that by my standards prisoners are afforded entirely too many privileges while in prison, therefore making it easy on them. They are allowed television, radios, computers, all sorts of electronics, lots of personal items, etc. They have private cells, and their cell doors are left open for the majority of the day so that they can go in and out to the main common area. They can take college classes and a host of other activities afforded them in the hopes that they better themselves.

If I had a stint in this facility, for a couple years or so, upon getting out, it would be difficult to get a job due to the felony on my record. I could then either sign up for the entitlements available to me, which would take years to get enrolled in all of the programs, get a low-paying job and barely scrape by, or I could commit another crime and go back to relative ease of living. Their room and board is paid. They have a certain status inside that they wouldn't in the real world. They have no real responsibility. Not to mention if I had a child where child support was payable, any job would not keep me above the poverty level after the garnishments. I'd be better off in prison, where they can't take what I don't have.

I think if we made prison the miserable place we think it is on TV shows like Oz, people wouldn't commit crimes with the frequency that they do now. That's a personal opinion, though.

But, again, the standards of prisons in countries like Thailand and Russia kind of show that tougher prisons don't actually reduce the rate of imprisonment. Indeed, as has been pointed out, softer prisons that focus on rehabilitating criminals into society tend to reduce rates of recidivism. There's a really good article over on the New Yorker about how harsh prisons can actually result in people being released with significant mental health problems:
Here

The article is a little long, but basically argues that the tens of thousands of inmates held in US prisons in solitary confinement suffer extremely serious mental health issues and have trouble fitting back in to society when released.

"“It’s an awful thing, solitary,” John McCain wrote of his five and a half years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam—more than two years of it spent in isolation in a fifteen-by-fifteen-foot cell, unable to communicate with other P.O.W.s except by tap code, secreted notes, or by speaking into an enamel cup pressed against the wall. “It crushes your spirit and weakens your resistance more effectively than any other form of mistreatment.” And this comes from a man who was beaten regularly; denied adequate medical treatment for two broken arms, a broken leg, and chronic dysentery; and tortured to the point of having an arm broken again. A U.S. military study of almost a hundred and fifty naval aviators returned from imprisonment in Vietnam, many of whom were treated even worse than McCain, reported that they found social isolation to be as torturous and agonizing as any physical abuse they suffered."

[Burrito]

But, again, the standards of prisons in countries like Thailand and Russia kind of show that tougher prisons don't actually reduce the rate of imprisonment. Indeed, as has been pointed out, softer prisons that focus on rehabilitating criminals into society tend to reduce rates of recidivism. There's a really good article over on the New Yorker about how harsh prisons can actually result in people being released with significant mental health problems:
Here

The article is a little long, but basically argues that the tens of thousands of inmates held in US prisons in solitary confinement suffer extremely serious mental health issues and have trouble fitting back in to society when released.

"“It’s an awful thing, solitary,” John McCain wrote of his five and a half years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam—more than two years of it spent in isolation in a fifteen-by-fifteen-foot cell, unable to communicate with other P.O.W.s except by tap code, secreted notes, or by speaking into an enamel cup pressed against the wall. “It crushes your spirit and weakens your resistance more effectively than any other form of mistreatment.” And this comes from a man who was beaten regularly; denied adequate medical treatment for two broken arms, a broken leg, and chronic dysentery; and tortured to the point of having an arm broken again. A U.S. military study of almost a hundred and fifty naval aviators returned from imprisonment in Vietnam, many of whom were treated even worse than McCain, reported that they found social isolation to be as torturous and agonizing as any physical abuse they suffered."

Or perhaps place like Russia and Thailand just throw whoever they want into prison without really needing a reason?

First, he said tougher prisons, not necessarily solitary confinement. And perhaps they criminals who are out in solitary already have significant mental problems, and that is why they are in solitary.

[Burrito]

Burrito, there are other and better ways of accomplising things in your life then being a soldier. Stop trying to condisend us.

First off, there is a spell checker. See those red squiggly lines? They mean something is misspelled. Grammatical mistakes are understandable if they are occasional, but there is no excuse for misspelling when they forum will fix them for you.

I didn't say that being a soldier was the only way, I was just wondering what he has done/ will do that actually matters? A question which he avoided...

]

i do have some experience on the subject if you bother to read more than one post, but yes. now i am a civilian (although sill technically a reserv, but who cares about reservists we are all a bunch of lazy no-good bastards).
I would rather say that burrito has the mentality of a new recruit fresh out of watching black hawk down..
@ burrito; you said you have enlisted in the marines how much time have you spent there now? where have you been, what have you seen?

/ out

I have enlisted, but I don't ship out to Boot Camp until this summer. I still have to finish high school.

[jay_a2j]

No-ones posted this yet so I thought I might as well:

Prison population per 100,000 inhabitants
USA-756
Russia-611
New Zealand-186
UK-148
Netherlands-128
Australia-157
Canada-107
Italy-104
Germany-95
Turkey-91
France-85
Sweden-82
Denmark-77
Japan-62
Iceland-22

Land of the not-so-free

[Symmetry]

But, again, the standards of prisons in countries like Thailand and Russia kind of show that tougher prisons don't actually reduce the rate of imprisonment. Indeed, as has been pointed out, softer prisons that focus on rehabilitating criminals into society tend to reduce rates of recidivism. There's a really good article over on the New Yorker about how harsh prisons can actually result in people being released with significant mental health problems:
Here

The article is a little long, but basically argues that the tens of thousands of inmates held in US prisons in solitary confinement suffer extremely serious mental health issues and have trouble fitting back in to society when released.

"“It’s an awful thing, solitary,” John McCain wrote of his five and a half years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam—more than two years of it spent in isolation in a fifteen-by-fifteen-foot cell, unable to communicate with other P.O.W.s except by tap code, secreted notes, or by speaking into an enamel cup pressed against the wall. “It crushes your spirit and weakens your resistance more effectively than any other form of mistreatment.” And this comes from a man who was beaten regularly; denied adequate medical treatment for two broken arms, a broken leg, and chronic dysentery; and tortured to the point of having an arm broken again. A U.S. military study of almost a hundred and fifty naval aviators returned from imprisonment in Vietnam, many of whom were treated even worse than McCain, reported that they found social isolation to be as torturous and agonizing as any physical abuse they suffered."

Or perhaps place like Russia and Thailand just throw whoever they want into prison without really needing a reason?

First, he said tougher prisons, not necessarily solitary confinement. And perhaps they criminals who are out in solitary already have signficant mental problems, and that is why they are in solitary.

A couple of issues there. Firstly, I still don't believe that harsher prison conditions help to deter crime. All the evidence is against it. Solitary is just one problem, and I hope that you don't feel I'm suggesting that it was 72o's target. I raised it as an example.

Second, the article I cited indicates that solitary confinement causes the problems. If you have some evidence to suggest that solitary confinement doesn't cause significant mental damage, feel free to post it.

(Edit) I also acknowledge that some prisoners will enter solitary with mental health issues, but I think that solitary can only serve to make those issues worse.

[Burrito]

But, again, the standards of prisons in countries like Thailand and Russia kind of show that tougher prisons don't actually reduce the rate of imprisonment. Indeed, as has been pointed out, softer prisons that focus on rehabilitating criminals into society tend to reduce rates of recidivism. There's a really good article over on the New Yorker about how harsh prisons can actually result in people being released with significant mental health problems:
Here

The article is a little long, but basically argues that the tens of thousands of inmates held in US prisons in solitary confinement suffer extremely serious mental health issues and have trouble fitting back in to society when released.

"“It’s an awful thing, solitary,” John McCain wrote of his five and a half years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam—more than two years of it spent in isolation in a fifteen-by-fifteen-foot cell, unable to communicate with other P.O.W.s except by tap code, secreted notes, or by speaking into an enamel cup pressed against the wall. “It crushes your spirit and weakens your resistance more effectively than any other form of mistreatment.” And this comes from a man who was beaten regularly; denied adequate medical treatment for two broken arms, a broken leg, and chronic dysentery; and tortured to the point of having an arm broken again. A U.S. military study of almost a hundred and fifty naval aviators returned from imprisonment in Vietnam, many of whom were treated even worse than McCain, reported that they found social isolation to be as torturous and agonizing as any physical abuse they suffered."

Or perhaps place like Russia and Thailand just throw whoever they want into prison without really needing a reason?

First, he said tougher prisons, not necessarily solitary confinement. And perhaps they criminals who are out in solitary already have signficant mental problems, and that is why they are in solitary.

A couple of issues there. Firstly, I still don't believe that harsher prison conditions help to deter crime. All the evidence is against it. Solitary is just one problem, and I hope that you don't feel I'm suggesting that it was 72o's target. I raised it as an example.

Second, the article I cited indicates that solitary confinement causes the problems. If you have some evidence to suggest that solitary confinement doesn't cause significant mental damage, feel free to post it.

You really don't think that if you could go to jail for the rest of your life for making a small drug deal, less people would do so?

[Symmetry]

But, again, the standards of prisons in countries like Thailand and Russia kind of show that tougher prisons don't actually reduce the rate of imprisonment. Indeed, as has been pointed out, softer prisons that focus on rehabilitating criminals into society tend to reduce rates of recidivism. There's a really good article over on the New Yorker about how harsh prisons can actually result in people being released with significant mental health problems:
Here

The article is a little long, but basically argues that the tens of thousands of inmates held in US prisons in solitary confinement suffer extremely serious mental health issues and have trouble fitting back in to society when released.

"“It’s an awful thing, solitary,” John McCain wrote of his five and a half years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam—more than two years of it spent in isolation in a fifteen-by-fifteen-foot cell, unable to communicate with other P.O.W.s except by tap code, secreted notes, or by speaking into an enamel cup pressed against the wall. “It crushes your spirit and weakens your resistance more effectively than any other form of mistreatment.” And this comes from a man who was beaten regularly; denied adequate medical treatment for two broken arms, a broken leg, and chronic dysentery; and tortured to the point of having an arm broken again. A U.S. military study of almost a hundred and fifty naval aviators returned from imprisonment in Vietnam, many of whom were treated even worse than McCain, reported that they found social isolation to be as torturous and agonizing as any physical abuse they suffered."

Or perhaps place like Russia and Thailand just throw whoever they want into prison without really needing a reason?

First, he said tougher prisons, not necessarily solitary confinement. And perhaps they criminals who are out in solitary already have signficant mental problems, and that is why they are in solitary.

A couple of issues there. Firstly, I still don't believe that harsher prison conditions help to deter crime. All the evidence is against it. Solitary is just one problem, and I hope that you don't feel I'm suggesting that it was 72o's target. I raised it as an example.

Second, the article I cited indicates that solitary confinement causes the problems. If you have some evidence to suggest that solitary confinement doesn't cause significant mental damage, feel free to post it.

You really don't think that if you could go to jail for the rest of your life for making a small drug deal, less people would do so?

Hmm- quick answer is no, I don't believe that. It never has in the past, and never works in other countries. Long answer is that life imprisonment for petty drug deals is a fairly unrealistic option. I'm guessing that only three-strike rules or similar would ever result in such a sentence. Meanwhile other countries have far more draconian punishments for drug dealing and still have a market.

You've not really answered my last post though.

[Burrito]

You really don't think that if you could go to jail for the rest of your life for making a small drug deal, less people would do so?

Hmm- quick answer is no, I don't believe that. It never has in the past, and never works in other countries. Long answer is that life imprisonment for petty drug deals is a fairly unrealistic option. I'm guessing that only three-strike rules or similar would ever result in such a sentence. Meanwhile other countries have far more draconian punishments for drug dealing and still have a market.

You've not really answered my last post though.

I didn't say no one would, just that less people would. It was just an example. I wasn't really defending solitary confinement. I really have no opinion.

[Symmetry]

You really don't think that if you could go to jail for the rest of your life for making a small drug deal, less people would do so?

Hmm- quick answer is no, I don't believe that. It never has in the past, and never works in other countries. Long answer is that life imprisonment for petty drug deals is a fairly unrealistic option. I'm guessing that only three-strike rules or similar would ever result in such a sentence. Meanwhile other countries have far more draconian punishments for drug dealing and still have a market.

You've not really answered my last post though.

I didn't say no one would, just that less people would. It was just an example. I wasn't really defending solitary confinement. I really have no opinion.

You should have a look at the article I linked to. It's very good on the subject. Difficult not to have an opinion after reading it.

Apart from that, it just needs to be emphasised again that harsh sentences don't really affect crime rates. If you like, I'll happily accept the theory that it might stop someone somewhere from committing a crime. It just doesn't work over a population though. Other factors are more important- social factors, economic factors, and indeed problems caused by jail time- association with gangs, inability to find work, inability to fit in with society again generally, mental health issues, time lost in education and employment, etc.

[mpjh]

In Illinois, and other states, more black men are in prison than are in college, yet prison costs the state more per year than does college. Seems we have our priorities wrong. We need to work on reversing the numbers so that more are in college than is prison.

[Evil Semp]

Somewhat ironic given that the United States has the largest prison population in the World, both in actual numbers and as a per capita percentage.

LAND OF THE FREE doesn't refer to people convicted of crimes in our justice system who lose their freedoms. It means we are a country where you have the freedom to voice your opinion and have political views, to choose which religion to believe in, the right to question authority.

I was thinking more along the lines of considering the problem and perhaps trying to diminish it, takes a bit of thought though so best you sit this one out.

Is it possible we have to many people imprisoned for nonviolent crimes, when they could really be put on community service types of punishment. That is just a thought.

[Evil Semp]

yeah and "home of the brave" bombing the shit out of the 3rd world, (wait let me get a dictionary).. yes, actually that IS the definition of bravery.. its right here "Bravery (noun); hitting someone who are unable to defend themselves"

You must be talking about the people who park car bombs outside of places of worship and kill innocent people just to kill someone in government. Or the people who kidnap foreigners and slit their throats or cut their heads off. Or maybe the ones who hijack a cruise ship and kill and man and throw his body in his wheelchair overboard.

I guess my dictionary was not bought at the same store as yours.

yeah and "home of the brave" bombing the shit out of the 3rd world, (wait let me get a dictionary).. yes, actually that IS the definition of bravery.. its right here "Bravery (noun); hitting someone who are unable to defend themselves"

Wow a German giving sh*t to an American for beating up on weaker people, of course everyone knows that the Germans would never attack or kill weaker people, or those who couldn't defend themselves,......oh wait a minute never mind.

Wow. You tried to retort the argument that horrible things are going on right now by the US and this should change by alluding to wars and atrocities committed by people from the same country but those probably committed far before his time and. Nice to see you focusing on trying to prove why the US is the land of the free and not resorting to ad hominems. Oh wait.

Why not? Wasn't that one of the worst atrocities ever committed? Is there a time limit on atrocities? What about the atrocities committed by the people we are fighting? Or don't those count?

[anonymus]

Burrito, there are other and better ways of accomplising things in your life then being a soldier. Stop trying to condisend us.

First off, there is a spell checker. See those red squiggly lines? They mean something is misspelled. Grammatical mistakes are understandable if they are occasional, but there is no excuse for misspelling when they forum will fix them for you.

I didn't say that being a soldier was the only way, I was just wondering what he has done/ will do that actually matters? A question which he avoided...

]

i do have some experience on the subject if you bother to read more than one post, but yes. now i am a civilian (although sill technically a reserv, but who cares about reservists we are all a bunch of lazy no-good bastards).
I would rather say that burrito has the mentality of a new recruit fresh out of watching black hawk down..
@ burrito; you said you have enlisted in the marines how much time have you spent there now? where have you been, what have you seen?

/ out

I have enlisted, but I don't ship out to Boot Camp until this summer. I still have to finish high school.

ok, so come back and talk to me after you know something kid.. or maybe after you have to shave more often than twice a month,, (i KNEW IT) hah.. all your points are now invalid since you have NO IDEA about the world or the military other than hear-say and warfilms... highschool.. poor kid..

[Iliad]

yeah and "home of the brave" bombing the shit out of the 3rd world, (wait let me get a dictionary).. yes, actually that IS the definition of bravery.. its right here "Bravery (noun); hitting someone who are unable to defend themselves"

You must be talking about the people who park car bombs outside of places of worship and kill innocent people just to kill someone in government. Or the people who kidnap foreigners and slit their throats or cut their heads off. Or maybe the ones who hijack a cruise ship and kill and man and throw his body in his wheelchair overboard.

I guess my dictionary was not bought at the same store as yours.

yeah and "home of the brave" bombing the shit out of the 3rd world, (wait let me get a dictionary).. yes, actually that IS the definition of bravery.. its right here "Bravery (noun); hitting someone who are unable to defend themselves"

Wow a German giving sh*t to an American for beating up on weaker people, of course everyone knows that the Germans would never attack or kill weaker people, or those who couldn't defend themselves,......oh wait a minute never mind.

Wow. You tried to retort the argument that horrible things are going on right now by the US and this should change by alluding to wars and atrocities committed by people from the same country but those probably committed far before his time and. Nice to see you focusing on trying to prove why the US is the land of the free and not resorting to ad hominems. Oh wait.

Why not? Wasn't that one of the worst atrocities ever committed? Is there a time limit on atrocities? What about the atrocities committed by the people we are fighting? Or don't those count?

Atrocities that are happening right now should have attention drawn to them and are important.

"Well your country committed atrocities, too" is not an argument. Anonymus was not in way related to that besides being born in the same country later. Also the atrocity is finished and those responsible brought to justice unlike other atrocities that are happening right now which anonymus was alluding to.

[Burrito]

Burrito, there are other and better ways of accomplising things in your life then being a soldier. Stop trying to condisend us.

First off, there is a spell checker. See those red squiggly lines? They mean something is misspelled. Grammatical mistakes are understandable if they are occasional, but there is no excuse for misspelling when they forum will fix them for you.

I didn't say that being a soldier was the only way, I was just wondering what he has done/ will do that actually matters? A question which he avoided...

]

i do have some experience on the subject if you bother to read more than one post, but yes. now i am a civilian (although sill technically a reserv, but who cares about reservists we are all a bunch of lazy no-good bastards).
I would rather say that burrito has the mentality of a new recruit fresh out of watching black hawk down..
@ burrito; you said you have enlisted in the marines how much time have you spent there now? where have you been, what have you seen?

/ out

I have enlisted, but I don't ship out to Boot Camp until this summer. I still have to finish high school.

ok, so come back and talk to me after you know something kid.. or maybe after you have to shave more often than twice a month,, (i KNEW IT) hah.. all your points are now invalid since you have NO IDEA about the world or the military other than hear-say and warfilms... highschool.. poor kid..

Of course, just because I am 17 means that I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. I mean, my brain is the size of a pea and I am no critical thinking skills at all, right? Tell me, what does another 40 years teach me that I am apparently utterly incapable of learning myself? Even though pretty much the entire worlds combined knowledge is accessible to anyone who can operate a computer. Since you consider me under-experienced, and that that lack of experience means I shouldn't be talking, I wonder how you justify yourself, a German, in talking about anything that is going on in America?

[jonesthecurl]

Burrito, there are other and better ways of accomplising things in your life then being a soldier. Stop trying to condisend us.

First off, there is a spell checker. See those red squiggly lines? They mean something is misspelled. Grammatical mistakes are understandable if they are occasional, but there is no excuse for misspelling when they forum will fix them for you.

I didn't say that being a soldier was the only way, I was just wondering what he has done/ will do that actually matters? A question which he avoided...

]

i do have some experience on the subject if you bother to read more than one post, but yes. now i am a civilian (although sill technically a reserv, but who cares about reservists we are all a bunch of lazy no-good bastards).
I would rather say that burrito has the mentality of a new recruit fresh out of watching black hawk down..
@ burrito; you said you have enlisted in the marines how much time have you spent there now? where have you been, what have you seen?

/ out

I have enlisted, but I don't ship out to Boot Camp until this summer. I still have to finish high school.

Burrito, I hope that your military career is all that you expect it to be, and that you meet more heroes than villains (on your own side).
I hope that when you retire from the military you will have more pride than bitterness.
Personally, I have my doubts, but I have never been a soldier myself, so I may very well be wrong.

[jonesthecurl]

Oh, and for the poster a few posts above - the spell checker is not a part of CC. I'm guessing you use Firefox.

[Burrito]

Burrito, there are other and better ways of accomplising things in your life then being a soldier. Stop trying to condisend us.

First off, there is a spell checker. See those red squiggly lines? They mean something is misspelled. Grammatical mistakes are understandable if they are occasional, but there is no excuse for misspelling when they forum will fix them for you.

I didn't say that being a soldier was the only way, I was just wondering what he has done/ will do that actually matters? A question which he avoided...

]

i do have some experience on the subject if you bother to read more than one post, but yes. now i am a civilian (although sill technically a reserv, but who cares about reservists we are all a bunch of lazy no-good bastards).
I would rather say that burrito has the mentality of a new recruit fresh out of watching black hawk down..
@ burrito; you said you have enlisted in the marines how much time have you spent there now? where have you been, what have you seen?

/ out

I have enlisted, but I don't ship out to Boot Camp until this summer. I still have to finish high school.

Burrito, I hope that your military career is all that you expect it to be, and that you meet more heroes than villains (on your own side).
I hope that when you retire from the military you will have more pride than bitterness.
Personally, I have my doubts, but I have never been a soldier myself, so I may very well be wrong.

I don't see how anything could be less rewarding than grinding away all day doing something that you hate, only to come home at night to your fat wife and her bitching, afterwords having to deal the $100,000 that you are in debt, with your only escape being a fifth of Jack Daniels. Like the average American.