What is art?

[btownmeggy]

*yawn*

Smart-ass comments are not appreciated by the Conquer Club social community. Such expressions will surely mark you as a spot within our otherwise cohesive family.

I was expressing myself.

[Neoteny]

*yawn*

Smart-ass comments are not appreciated by the Conquer Club social community. Such expressions will surely mark you as a spot within our otherwise cohesive family.

I was expressing myself.

You seem to be lacking a basic concept of what art is, dear. You need to actually challenge the concepts of decency and ethics.

[ural_fucked]

Art is me finishing off a string of cashes in an escalating game and painting the board in my colour.

[btownmeggy]

You need to actually challenge the concepts of decency and ethics.

Well, upon my word!

You certainly don't see that sort of thing in "Washington Crossing the Delaware"!

[Neoteny]

You need to actually challenge the concepts of decency and ethics.

Well, upon my word!

You certainly don't see that sort of thing in "Washington Crossing the Delaware"!

Given, it would have been better with babies dangling from the boat by their umbilical cords, but I think the glorification of what would eventually become the most morally sound nation in the world is artistic enough.

[savant]

However, that doesn't account for some people considering something as art while others do not. Also it is hypothetically possible that an object not originally regarded as art can become art, whether purposely by being placed in a new context, or by chance if it is regarded from a different perspective than otherwise. I'm very sceptical about defining art from intention of the artist, especially seeing how the artist is already aware of our conventions about art and is reacting to them.

Some are and some aren't. I don't know what you mean by objects not regarded as art accidentally becoming art. An avalanche itself isn't art (unless created for that purpose). If an avalanche was documented and presented as such, then I would consider the presentation art. Am I misunderstanding you?

perhaps he means something like this...

i was just in the bathroom doing my business when i noticed the worn, rubber door knob protector thing on the wall. the texture of the worn, cracked rubber from an artistic perspective was something i found thought provoking. the door slamming into the rubber stopper repeatedly over time has worn and cracked the stopper, symbolic to the trials and tribulations of life on one's self. i consider that to be a meaningful expression of art, while everyone else who uses that same bathroom today won't even think about it twice.

[Neoteny]

Ah. I don't see the door stopper as art, as there was no artist involved. I suppose, if you believed in god, he could be the artist, but I don't. If you presented the door stopper as a art, seriously, then I would see it as art then.

[MeDeFe]

However, that doesn't account for some people considering something as art while others do not. Also it is hypothetically possible that an object not originally regarded as art can become art, whether purposely by being placed in a new context, or by chance if it is regarded from a different perspective than otherwise. I'm very sceptical about defining art from intention of the artist, especially seeing how the artist is already aware of our conventions about art and is reacting to them.

Some are and some aren't. I don't know what you mean by objects not regarded as art accidentally becoming art. An avalanche itself isn't art (unless created for that purpose). If an avalanche was documented and presented as such, then I would consider the presentation art. Am I misunderstanding you?

perhaps he means something like this...

i was just in the bathroom doing my business when i noticed the worn, rubber door knob protector thing on the wall. the texture of the worn, cracked rubber from an artistic perspective was something i found thought provoking. the door slamming into the rubber stopper repeatedly over time has worn and cracked the stopper, symbolic to the trials and tribulations of life on one's self. i consider that to be a meaningful expression of art, while everyone else who uses that same bathroom today won't even think about it twice.

Exactly that would be an example of an object not intended as art being regarded as art by chance. An example of it happening on purpose would be if an actual roadsign is presented as art in an exhibition, outside of its usual context.

[Neoteny]

You would not consider that art? Particularly because it is removed from its original context?

[MeDeFe]

You would not consider that art? Particularly because it is removed from its original context?

other way round, it would not have been intended as art, but by being placed outside of its usual context of being a roadsign and instead in an art gallery and being treated as art by the audience it would become art.

The doorstopper example goes to show that an object does not even have to be placed outside of its original context in order to be considere art, the act of viewing it as art is enough.

[Neoteny]

You would not consider that art? Particularly because it is removed from its original context?

other way round, it would not have been intended as art, but by being placed outside of its usual context of being a roadsign and instead in an art gallery and being treated as art by the audience it would become art.

The doorstopper example goes to show that an object does not even have to be placed outside of its original context in order to be considere art, the act of viewing it as art is enough.

Well... I still disagree. I don't see art without an artist. Without an artist, the object is just beautiful, or ugly, or whatever. I sound like a creationist...

[tzor]

What is art? Let's start at the very beginning (a very good place to start) and ask Mr Webster.

• the power of performing certain actions especially as acquired by experience, study, or observation
• skill in the adaptation of things in the natural world to the uses of human life
• one of the humanities traditionally including history, philosophy, literature, languages, and the fine arts
• application of skill and taste to production according to aesthetic principles : the conscious use of skill, taste, and creative imagination in the practical definition or production of beauty

So art requires experience, study or observation, it adapts things from the world around us, is uses in a conscious way skill, taste and imagination in the production of beauty (which is of course in the eye of the beholder). This is art. As the supreme court judge said (about something else which was not art) "I know it when I see it."

[savant]

Well... I still disagree. I don't see art without an artist. Without an artist, the object is just beautiful, or ugly, or whatever.

with the door stopper example, the person responsible for "designing" a production-level model is solely designing for functional and economical purposes only?

[MeDeFe]

What is art? Let's start at the very beginning (a very good place to start) and ask Mr Webster.

• the power of performing certain actions especially as acquired by experience, study, or observation
• skill in the adaptation of things in the natural world to the uses of human life
• one of the humanities traditionally including history, philosophy, literature, languages, and the fine arts
• application of skill and taste to production according to aesthetic principles : the conscious use of skill, taste, and creative imagination in the practical definition or production of beauty

So art requires experience, study or observation, it adapts things from the world around us, is uses in a conscious way skill, taste and imagination in the production of beauty (which is of course in the eye of the beholder). This is art. As the supreme court judge said (about something else which was not art) "I know it when I see it."

Noah didn't know what he was talking about there. Skill varies, taste is subjective and aesthetic principles are anything but fixed. Also, don't mix the different points, to me they look like very different concepts that just happen to be denoted by one word. I notice you didn't incorporate the third at all.

[jonesthecurl]

Jeez, I can't see why yo u're all having so much trouble here. Art is the guy who runs the Jazz Bar sbout a half a mile away from my house..

[muy_thaiguy]

Jeez, I can't see why yo u're all having so much trouble here. Art is the guy who runs the Jazz Bar sbout a half a mile away from my house..

I thought Art was the guy next door, so you must be thinking about Bart.

[jonesthecurl]

NO, it's calld "Here's to the Arts", and Art runs it. The bar menu is all inspired by people called Art or Arthur. (King, Conan Doyle, etc). Honest.

[JACKAZZTJM]

art is fart minus the f

[Iliad]

art is fart minus the f

HAHA!!!
FUNNNY!!!

[hahaha3hahaha]

-deleted-

[mybike_yourface]

paintings and stuff.

[got tonkaed]

it is good to see that even when im off the clock so to speak arguments about social construction of all sorts of things still get made.

[InkL0sed]

it is good to see that even when im off the clock so to speak arguments about social construction of all sorts of things still get made.

I try.

[Snorri1234]

paintings and stuff.

Best definition ever.

[hecter]

Art is a means of expression for the senses that requires skill on the part of the artist and provokes both thought and/or an emotional response in the people experiencing the artistic works.

EDIT: That means, of course, that what is considered art varies from person to person. It's all a matter of perspective and what you choose to call it. While you may not consider a video tape of a drunk hobo yelling at traffic for ten minutes, why can't somebody else? Dadaism is considered an art form, but I certainly would not give it that title.

I read recently of a South American 'artist' who tied a starving dog up in one of his exhibitions - he also surrounded it with his collages made from dog food.
'Thought provoking and extremely emotional' it may have been, but art, definitely not.
Amazingly enough, he wasn't prosecuted and continues to exhibit despite violent protests.

You missed a crucial part of my definition. Anybody can starve a dog to death.