Classic: Shapes and Classic: Art

[timmytuttut88]

I say we be immature and spam hasbros forum with "free Conquerclub" threads.
http://www.topix.com/forum/com/has

[rwe]

I think Classic Art rocks.

It's a brilliant adaptation to a difficult situation, it looks enough like the Original Board to be playable, and I even like the graphics. Simple.

Get a grip, people. The mechanics make the game, not the graphics. In ten years time we could all be playing risk with sticks and gravel, so enjoy it while you can.

I think 'rocks' might be overstating just a tad. But it is a pretty good adaptation, given where you guys find yourselves. Congratulations on the quick turnaround by the draftspeople.

[oaktown]

I say we be immature and spam hasbros forum with "free Conquerclub" threads.

I'm with you in spirit, but I don't think that pissing off the Mother Ship is a good idea at this time. When you're out-gunned, best to fly under the enemy's radar.

Wait... lack? Is that your angry, irresponsible alter-ego?

[edbeard]

yep. lay low.

anyone else see that Risk commercial on tv? I think they played it during the baseball game yesterday.

[spiesr]

A question about Centerscape. Is there any reason that we can't just use the old image and remove the Middle Earth names and put it back up? The game play and image are already different than Hasbro's version.

Any response to this???

[mpjh]

How about a "National Parks" theme to the classic play?

[oaktown]

A question about Centerscape. Is there any reason that we can't just use the old image and remove the Middle Earth names and put it back up? The game play and image are already different than Hasbro's version.

Any response to this???

Yeah, that's a strange one, as both the image and the play are, indeed, different. I wonder if by creating a middle earth map we somehow violated The Mother Ship's licensing agreement with the Tolkien people - maybe they have the right to review or to sublicense? Without knowing the terms of the licensing agreement, this is just a guess.

[TaCktiX]

Actually while looking into a map concept of my own I confirmed that the Middle Earth map was skirting on the copyright of the actual LotR people, the Saul Zaentz Company. They hold all rights to LotR and The Hobbit, and will only disclose licenses to reference Tolkien's work in image form if they get a form letting them know what cash profit is in it for them. Middle Earth may have been substantially different from Hasbro's version, but it was not within copyright allowances.

[Ditocoaf]

I still really feel that a major option is being overlooked, one that would make a lot of people happy.

Surely we can still have some form of a map based on continents.

Not with similar gameplay as Classic, I'm afraid

What I'm wondering is:

Why not a map based on a different place? It's much more enjoyable to play on a map that represents actual locations. If it's not a world map, then it doesn't resemble what we're avoiding in any way... right? The regions could even be oriented in a completely different way, further differing the look from what we're avoiding. In fact, it would look less like what we're avoiding that the current "classic art" map... "classic art" still resembles a world map fairly closely.

[Tense]

What I hate the most is Hasbros way of dealing with it.

I was introduced to Conquer Club by a friend. I had never played Hasbro's RISK before. When I had tried Conquer Club online I of course had to play it offline - this is where Hasbro comes in. I played Hasbros Risk.

Conquer Club basically served as a commercial for Hasbro. And, if Hasbro were smart, it could serve as something even greater. If Hasbro realized the size and power of this community I'm sure they would rather be friends than enemies with Conquer Club. Without any change in name, cost, design or gameplay, a mutual connection between Hasbro and Conquer Club could have been established. Deal: Hasbro offers money for servers, bandwidth etc and suddenly it has (I don't know how many how plays CC right now) a lot of people who are potential buyers of they products at their hands.

I just hate it, why are people so stupid? Did they consider doing something else than just saying STFU&DIE? Perhaps they rather prefer creating an internet platform from scratch in belief that everything will be so much better when they have control of everything... This is the Internet - you DON'T need to invent something someone else already have!

____

In fear of missing the name of someone (I know "Lack" is one of those I remember), I will refer to them as the Conquer Club administrators.

Conquer Club administrators: I respect your decision and I don't think anything else could have been done. No matter what happens you have my support. I love this site and I want you and it to live on. There are still countless of other maps to play on. (Even though the new simplistic style of the Classic map is extremely cool). Take care. Your hard work pays of in extremely satisfied customers as me. I will definitely renew my membership and I try to recruit people all the time (IRL)!

edit:

The gameplay of the new Classics maps are the same, it's just the graphics that have changed. I haven't followed the entire topic but if this remains, if those maps stay, I can't see what kind of gain Hasbro has done.

[ode to veeck]

I'd still like to see an improved form of the replacements for classic that do a much better job on the graphics etc. Classic art was a little bit of an improvement on the polygons lucky charms quick fix, but not much of one. While I agree we should stay away from the bounds of any potential infringement issues, it would be a lot better to have a better looking map than we have currently.

[KidWhisky]

I just have to say quick that the more I play on the new classic the more I like it. It seems to have grown on me. It is just a lot of fun to play on.

[ManBungalow]

I just have to say quick that the more I play on the new classic the more I like it. It seems to have grown on me. It is just a lot of fun to play on.

If you're talking about the classic shapes map : I fear for your sanity
If you're talking about the classic art map : meh

[spiesr]

A question about Centerscape. Is there any reason that we can't just use the old image and remove the Middle Earth names and put it back up? The game play and image are already different than Hasbro's version.

Any response to this???

[guylian]

i quite like the classic art map now............

[blue sam3]

One point. The following comes from www.copyright.gov, the website of the US copyright office:

What Is Not Protected by Copyright?

Several categories of material are generally not eligible for federal copyright protection. These include among others:

* Works that have not been fixed in a tangible form of expression (for example, choreographic works that have not been notated or recorded, or improvisational speeches or performances that have not been written or recorded)
* Titles, names, short phrases, and slogans; familiar symbols or designs; mere variations of typographic ornamentation, lettering, or coloring; mere listings of ingredients or contents
* Ideas, procedures, methods, systems, processes, concepts, principles, discoveries, or devices, as distinguished from a description, explanation, or illustration
* Works consisting entirely of information that is common property and containing no original authorship (for example: standard calendars, height and weight charts, tape measures and rulers, and lists or tables taken from public documents or other common sources)

This is clearly a concept, not a work, and so cannot be protected by copyright.

US Copyright Law Section
UK Copyright Law FAQ
I could find more if necessary.

[mpjh]

NOT. They already have the copyright.

[friendly1]

Actually, copyright law is a very complex game.

The rule of thumb is if a corporate entity has placed funds into a name or symbol, and has thus created goodwill (in the form of advertising revenue) then no other entity is entitled to gains from using said name or symbol without paying a mutually negotiated fee.

I'm certain Lack will have checked with legal counsel, and is taking the best route possible - the one which avoids a lawsuit with a very large corporate entity who has a great deal of experience in both copyright and trademark infringement.

For those of you bashing Hasbro, I suspect Lack received a cease and desist notice: meaning remove the materials protected by copyright or trademark immediately, or suffer the legal consequences. This is a method corporations use to be nice... They are well within their rights to bypass this, and simply sue for infringement as well as damages based on all revenue derived from use of copyrighted or trademarked items.

Things are not always as simple as they seem, and while I hope Conquer Club has resources enough to handle a serious lawsuit, I suspect there was NO choice in the matter in order for it to continue.

I also would prefer to have the original maps, I quite enjoyed them. They most definitely are a thing of the past, and (my opinion once again) its possible we should be happy this was the only consequence (although we may not be aware of other financial requirements which had to be met as well)

My 2 cents

friendly1

[bob72]

Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is. CC may have originally been based on a board game, but it has since exceeded that concept in every conceivable respect. 100+ maps. Team play. "Spoils" options. The board game sucks ass compared to this.

I can't grasp why people are so concerned about the demise of a map which is, compared to the dozens and dozens and dozens of others that are available, pretty freaking average anyway. Nostalgia I guess. Fond memories die hard.

Me, I say let it go, the Classic map was nothing special and was, at best, so-so. There is so much better on offer. Celebrate what is good about CC. There's too much negativity on these forums.

I think people were mostly attracted to having one map that a lot of people knew very well. With the others, very few people know any of the deeper strategy; the level of play to be found on Classic was much higher than you could find anywhere else. Of course, I'm just assuming things, because I didn't used to play classic very often, but this seems to be why having a generic map with that particular gameplay is so important.

I just think that more interesting graphics can be made without infringing on any problems.

yep they have spent 100s games getting to know the maps strategy so well and can't be bothered to learn a new one.

Some other maps out there kick classic out of the ball park in terms of complexity and playability.

Thinking of Rail Europe and Age of Realms ones

[n00blet]

Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is. CC may have originally been based on a board game, but it has since exceeded that concept in every conceivable respect. 100+ maps. Team play. "Spoils" options. The board game sucks ass compared to this.

I can't grasp why people are so concerned about the demise of a map which is, compared to the dozens and dozens and dozens of others that are available, pretty freaking average anyway. Nostalgia I guess. Fond memories die hard.

Me, I say let it go, the Classic map was nothing special and was, at best, so-so. There is so much better on offer. Celebrate what is good about CC. There's too much negativity on these forums.

I think people were mostly attracted to having one map that a lot of people knew very well. With the others, very few people know any of the deeper strategy; the level of play to be found on Classic was much higher than you could find anywhere else. Of course, I'm just assuming things, because I didn't used to play classic very often, but this seems to be why having a generic map with that particular gameplay is so important.

I just think that more interesting graphics can be made without infringing on any problems.

yep they have spent 100s games getting to know the maps strategy so well and can't be bothered to learn a new one.

Some other maps out there kick classic out of the ball park in terms of complexity and playability.

Thinking of Rail Europe and Age of Realms ones

There is no change in playability. No borders or bonuses have been changed at all. The strategies are exactly the same.
Regardless, I don't play classic nearly as regularly as other maps, such as Feudal War, simply for the reason that play is much more balanced and enjoyable

[cardinal]

I really just want to say I enjoy the site and would rather have the ablilty to play online, with people all over the world than trying to get a game set up at my house with a bunch a bums that get drunk too easy and spill beer on my board displacing men everywhere! The biggest problem I have is "assaulting". It makes me feel dirty. I am not saying I have a better word for it, just that it makes me a little uncomfortable.

[porkenbeans]

Actually, copyright law is a very complex game.

The rule of thumb is if a corporate entity has placed funds into a name or symbol, and has thus created goodwill (in the form of advertising revenue) then no other entity is entitled to gains from using said name or symbol without paying a mutually negotiated fee.

I'm certain Lack will have checked with legal counsel, and is taking the best route possible - the one which avoids a lawsuit with a very large corporate entity who has a great deal of experience in both copyright and trademark infringement.

For those of you bashing Hasbro, I suspect Lack received a cease and desist notice: meaning remove the materials protected by copyright or trademark immediately, or suffer the legal consequences. This is a method corporations use to be nice... They are well within their rights to bypass this, and simply sue for infringement as well as damages based on all revenue derived from use of copyrighted or trademarked items.

Things are not always as simple as they seem, and while I hope Conquer Club has resources enough to handle a serious lawsuit, I suspect there was NO choice in the matter in order for it to continue.

I also would prefer to have the original maps, I quite enjoyed them. They most definitely are a thing of the past, and (my opinion once again) its possible we should be happy this was the only consequence (although we may not be aware of other financial requirements which had to be met as well)

My 2 cents

friendly1

These have been my susp. and conclusions as well. It is plain to see that Lack and his crew have been very busy running around, doing everything they can to differentiate CC from ''RISK''. I believe that this is a knee jerk reaction. I would say to my friends lack & crew, Grab a beer, kick off your shoes, and spend the time it takes, to drink said beer, to ponder this... What if you were to offer, to sell CC, to Hasbro. They would have to pay a big chunk of change to develop and then run there own site. You and your crew have already done the work. so you know that they might want to consider an offer. Lack, you could also neg. To stay on as C.E.O. and hire all those pros. that you've always wanted. You could also have the funds to pay you and your crew a much nicer salary. ...

[serata]

These have been my susp. and conclusions as well. It is plain to see that Lack and his crew have been very busy running around, doing everything they can to differentiate CC from ''RISK''. I believe that this is a knee jerk reaction. I would say to my friends lack & crew, Grab a beer, kick off your shoes, and spend the time it takes, to drink said beer, to ponder this... What if you were to offer, to sell CC, to Hasbro. They would have to pay a big chunk of change to develop and then run there own site. You and your crew have already done the work. so you know that they might want to consider an offer. Lack, you could also neg. To stay on as C.E.O. and hire all those pros. that you've always wanted. You could also have the funds to pay you and your crew a much nicer salary. ...

That's awfully optimistic about mega-corporations taking over small independent websites

I think the Classic Art is a wonderful solution. It still gives me a bit of a migraine to look at it, but it's so infinitely better than the Classic Shapes quick fix. And it's not as if they've changed the numbers like they had in Shapes. Obviously, the classic board is what attracted me to the website, it looked so sleek, and it's sad we had to lose that great work of art, but in terms of a compromise I don't think they could have done better.

[HighlanderAttack]

I like classic Art better personally.

Addicted to this sight, HighlanderAttack

[max is gr8]

Hay I make a slight proposal, classic art is great but none of it is like what it says. The sculpture section should look like sculptures etc.