Surprise! Organic Beekeepers Reporting Zero Losses

[Juan_Bottom]

http://www.groovygreen.com/groove/?p=1388

I know this isn't a story for everybody, but I still found it to be quite cool. It's strange how I've not heard this before.

“‘I’m on an organic beekeeping list of about 1,000 people, mostly Americans, and no one in the organic beekeeping world, including commercial beekeepers, is reporting colony collapse on this list,’ said Sharon Labchuck. ‘The problem with the big commercial guys is that they put pesticides in their hives to fumigate for varroa mites, and they feed antibiotics to the bees. They also haul the hives by truck all over the place to make more money with pollination services, which stresses the colonies.’”

In our efforts to make larger bees that are resistant to more predators or diseases — have we crossed the line in how far we could go? As the article states, “Who should be surprised that the major media reports forget to tell us that the dying bees are actually hyper-bred varieties that we coax into a larger than normal body size? It sounds just like the beef industry. And, have we here a solution to the vanishing bee problem? Is it one that the CCD Working Group, or indeed, the scientific world at large, will support? Will media coverage affect government action in dealing with this issue?”

Or, even better: Would this current administration dare trample on the industry that has risen to supply the pesticides and inorganic alternatives to these bee keepers? Can they afford not to?

[jonesthecurl]

Good find, Juan.
So do you know have sympathy for bees? Or are you still smarting?

[PLAYER57832]

Background ... in case any did not know, the bee keeping industry is facing near collapse. Bees are dying everywhere, enough to potentially threaten food crops. So far, no one knows why.

If true, this is indeed interesting. Pesticides in crops have been mentioned as a cause of hive collapse, as has the transporting of bees. However, it could also be semi-cooincidental. For example, if it is a fungus that is causing the die-off, it might spread quickly through the larger groups of bees transported everywhere (increasing chances of exposure and transmission), but NOT necessarily be due to antibiotics or stress from travel.

It is definitely enough to ecourage us to support our local bee growers (buy local honey when we can), but not enough evidence to start regulating larger bee keepers further.

[Matroshka]

So nobody knew why the bees were dying off? All the while pumping the hives full of pesticides, pumping the bees full of antibiotics, genetically altering the bees, and trucking them around the country?

[PLAYER57832]

So nobody knew why the bees were dying off? All the while pumping the hives full of pesticides, pumping the bees full of antibiotics, genetically altering the bees, and trucking them around the country?

First, it is not so much direct use of pesticides. The biggest problem is all these homeowners who tend to use FAR too much of whatever in their lawns, etc. (I have heard estimates as saying the average home owner uses as much as 5-10 times as much as professionals).

Also, Depsite what this article asserts, there has not been a differance shown between those bees that are trucked and those that are not. In fact, one of the biggest worries/problem is that native bees are dying as well.

This is why I said we need to see more about this.

Understand this is a HUGE problem. The bee keepers have a lot to lose by not solving this problem. It is not a case of "cover up", though as in most forms of agruculture, there is a bias toward comventional chemicals, etc.

[Matroshka]

"The problem with the big commercial guys is that they put pesticides in their hives to fumigate for varroa mites"

So you're saying that the article is inaccurate? I honestly don't know anything about bees except for what I read in that article.

[GabonX]

The source is not exactly reliable. My grandfather was a bee keeper, far from being commercial, and his colony did collapse.

This is one article which contradicts thousands of others. The claim that no organic bee keeper has had problems is false.

[Backglass]

Biased and anecdotal.

My brother-in-law is a beekeeper in Ohio and uses no pesticides or chemicals...and is still losing hives. If it were this simple, don't you think the industry would have been all over it by now especially with what is at stake?

As for transporting bees...you HAVE to transport bees due to the monoculture crop growing techniques used today. When Almond trees need pollinating for example, they only need bees for a week or two and have a beekeeper truck some in. The other 50 weeks of the year they don't need them and the bees would have nothing to eat anyway.

[PLAYER57832]

"The problem with the big commercial guys is that they put pesticides in their hives to fumigate for varroa mites"

So you're saying that the article is inaccurate? I honestly don't know anything about bees except for what I read in that article.

I am saying it is only one opinion and that many, many people are tossing out all kinds of ideas. The real truth is that no one really knows, they are just guessing at this point.

But I doubt is is as simple as the article asserts, because, among other reasons, wild bees are having problems, too.

Most likely, it is not ANY one thing, it is almost certainly a combination. Similar to why Frogs and other amphibians are dying off.

[Juan_Bottom]

Hold on now, does anyone know what the requirements are to make ORGANIC honey? I bet that you cannot have bees getting pollen from non-organic sources. I'd wager that just because you don't treat your colonies with medicine that that is not enough to certify them organic.
So lets say your bees are getting into a crop field, or garden that's not certified organic. Would that negate them from being an organic hive? I know organic farmers have a rough time meeting all of the standards.
OH! And I read recently that the EPA is refusing to investigate the bee situation any further.. and aren't going to release what they have found, because it's incomplete data.

Moving hives around can indeed be stressfull on a colony. I read that as much as 60% of the commercial bee colonies in the country have failed, and the remaining 40% are constantly being rented out and moved around to make up the difference. Bees are actually used by fruit and citris growers to pollenate their crop.

And my Uncle was a beekeeper. He lost 12 hives 2 years ago and gave it up. He had 4 left last year, but only 1 this summer.

[PLAYER57832]

Hold on now, does anyone know what the requirements are to make ORGANIC honey? I bet that you cannot have bees getting pollen from non-organic sources. I'd wager that just because you don't treat your colonies with medicine that that is not enough to certify them organic.

This is essentially impossible. Caging bees is not practical, and you cannot control what your neighbors do. To be organic, you cannot use pesticides on your bees directly or intentionally take them to pesticide using crops is my understanding.

So lets say your bees are getting into a crop field, or garden that's not certified organic. Would that negate them from being an organic hive? I know organic farmers have a rough time meeting all of the standards.

I don't think this is part of the organic rules, but I could be wrong.

OH! And I read recently that the EPA is refusing to investigate the bee situation any further.. and aren't going to release what they have found, because it's incomplete data.

Bush's favorite tactic.
But really, this is more a Dept of Agriculture issue than an EPA one. Plus, add in a few plain biologist types ..

Moving hives around can indeed be stressfull on a colony. I read that as much as 60% of the commercial bee colonies in the country have failed, and the remaining 40% are constantly being rented out and moved around to make up the difference. Bees are actually used by fruit and citris growers to pollenate their crop.

They are used for many crops, not just trees. But yes, it is stressful. It is POSSIBLE to keep bees in most areas year-round. Usually there are enough varied crops, plus you supplement with sugar, etc as needed.

And my Uncle was a beekeeper. He lost 12 hives 2 years ago and gave it up. He had 4 left last year, but only 1 this summer.

So far, I think it is worst in the US, but does anyone know about the world situation?

[Juan_Bottom]

This is essentially impossible. Caging bees is not practical, and you cannot control what your neighbors do. To be organic, you cannot use pesticides on your bees directly or intentionally take them to pesticide using crops is my understanding.

Well yes, but certainly they must have somewhat stricker rules? It just doesn't seem organic to me if the colony has easy access to genetically engineered and pesticide covered crops.

Bush's favorite tactic.
But really, this is more a Dept of Agriculture issue than an EPA one. Plus, add in a few plain biologist types ..

Yeah, and I haven't been hearing much. I think it was the DoA that said they think smog and pollution is part of the problem, but don't qoute me on that. I see if I remember where the article was.

So far, I think it is worst in the US, but does anyone know about the world situation?

Europe is fine. I'll see if I can find that one too.

[Gypsys Kiss]

This is from the British Beekeepers Association (BBKA) website. Dated the 4th of November 2008.

One in three of honey bee colonies were lost over the last year. It is feared there is nothing to prevent a repeated loss of two billion bees this winter, leading to another spring in which there will be a reduction in these vital pollinators.

That is a lot of bees. And dont forget these little creatures are vital to the human food chain.

[pimpdave]

Why would organic beekeepers even have Zeros? And how are they losing them?

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure Japan stopped manufacturing Zeros before WWII even ended, so I'm really confused here.

Well, that's our Juan!

[Juan_Bottom]

Why would organic beekeepers even have Zeros? And how are they losing them?

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure Japan stopped manufacturing Zeros before WWII even ended, so I'm really confused here.

Well, that's our Juan!

Took me a sec, that's what made it funny.
And to answer your confusion, It's because they can't buy jet fighters, it's illegal.

[Frigidus]

The source is not exactly reliable. My grandfather was a bee keeper, far from being commercial, and his colony did collapse.

This is one article which contradicts thousands of others. The claim that no organic bee keeper has had problems is false.

Biased and anecdotal.

My brother-in-law is a beekeeper in Ohio and uses no pesticides or chemicals...and is still losing hives. If it were this simple, don't you think the industry would have been all over it by now especially with what is at stake?

As for transporting bees...you HAVE to transport bees due to the monoculture crop growing techniques used today. When Almond trees need pollinating for example, they only need bees for a week or two and have a beekeeper truck some in. The other 50 weeks of the year they don't need them and the bees would have nothing to eat anyway.

Lol wut? Two random forum members closely related to bee farmers? Is this more common than I was aware?

[spurgistan]

Bans coming.

But seriously, everything I've ever heard about colony collapse disorder insists that no cause can be scientifically determined. If it was something as simple as pesticides, don't ya think some doc would put two and two together, there?

[PLAYER57832]

Bans coming.

But seriously, everything I've ever heard about colony collapse disorder insists that no cause can be scientifically determined. If it was something as simple as pesticides, don't ya think some doc would put two and two together, there?

No.

There is hardly anything "simple" about pesticides, for one. It is exceedingly difficult to prove a cause for many things in biology because there are just so many variables to control

If you want to test a piece of steel, or even plastic or ceramic (very complicated compared to steel, of course), you can put it through various tests in a controlled environment. How do you control a bee's environment? How do you even know which things to test?

When tests ARE done, they are usually done on just one chemical. With all the millions of chemicals out there, no one really knows how they can combine, what happens over long periods of time in air, water, etc. We know pieces, but not the whole picture. Then how long do you test? A bee life cycle is short, compared to a humans (sorry cannot remember exactly how long). But, it something, say affects the genes and reproduction, it could take a couple of generations for the problem to even appear ... never mind studying its exact origins.

And .... that is just a very, very small glimpse of it.

[Juan_Bottom]

The source is not exactly reliable. My grandfather was a bee keeper, far from being commercial, and his colony did collapse.

This is one article which contradicts thousands of others. The claim that no organic bee keeper has had problems is false.

Biased and anecdotal.

My brother-in-law is a beekeeper in Ohio and uses no pesticides or chemicals...and is still losing hives. If it were this simple, don't you think the industry would have been all over it by now especially with what is at stake?

As for transporting bees...you HAVE to transport bees due to the monoculture crop growing techniques used today. When Almond trees need pollinating for example, they only need bees for a week or two and have a beekeeper truck some in. The other 50 weeks of the year they don't need them and the bees would have nothing to eat anyway.

Lol wut? Two random forum members closely related to bee farmers? Is this more common than I was aware?

My uncle was a beekeeper too. It must be more common than even I though.

[pimpdave]

NO NOT THE BEES! Oh yes, the Bees

Mega Wicker Man Bees