NEWCOMERS BEWARE: Escalating Juggernauts

[The Neon Peon]

I decided to actually take a look, and I have come to question why you consider yourself to have even a morsel of qualification to be telling anyone anything about escalating games.

You have 72 escalating games finished that are standard or terminator, and have at least 6 players (since with fewer players, the strategy for escalating begins leaning more towards flat rate, and does not have the strategies you describe)

Out of those 72 games, you have won 3. Do you really want a new member on the site to trust to a strategy that only wins 4% of games? I would personally try to do the opposite of this post if I was shown the statistics, and did not know how to play.

[Timminz]

What I don't understand is why the OP is still a cook. She or He seems to have at least half an idea of how to play freestyle doubles, and escalating singles. Both threads make good points. Freestyle doubles teams should play at the same time, and playing with the "escalating juggernaut" style will win you some games.

[Jeff Hardy]

Game 3757831
all the players in that game know what they are doing and do you see any of them going for a bonus or trying to gain land?

[Artimis]

Urgh! For those of you who are perpetually missing the point and especially for those of you who are DELIBERATELY missing the point (you know who you are and you should take it to the Flame War forum).

It's not unethical as stated in the disclaimer at the top. The original post is for information purposes only, also as stated in the disclaimer. The purpose of the post is to share my observations with fellow newcomers so that they are forewarned before entering a match with particular settings.

Before I started experimenting with other maps and game settings my rank was Sargeant and I was on track to be Sargeant 1st Class, I threw it all away because I wanted to try new maps and new ways to play(like Team Games). I've tried a lot of different methods, most of them don't work and I'm still testing a few to distruction to make sure that they don't work.

As for the matter of my rank, it says I'm a Cook, wow, big deal! I find that rank means little, points come and go, you're only as good as your last victory. I take more interest in the number of games that someone has played than I do in how many points they have accumulated. Even after two months I'm still amazed by the number players who question the validity of you're statements based purely on the fact that you're a Cook! I won't quote any of their comments because I don't think they're fit for any posts outside of the flame room.

[Timminz]

I hope you don't think I was trying to flame you. You've made a couple of threads with excellent strategic advice. Well, technically, you're warning newcomers about a couple of excellent strategies, but if these newcomers were to use the strategies you are trying to warn them about, they will probably do well.

[Artimis]

I hope you don't think I was trying to flame you.

It's ok timminz, I wasn't directing that part of the post at you, I've got one particular individual whom is hell bent on stalking my threads and filling them with repetitive nonsense, you are definitely not THAT person. I welcome all feedback, even the negative feedback on the provision that it's constructive and adds to the discussion in a meaningful manner.

but if these newcomers were to use the strategies you are trying to warn them about, they will probably do well.

Yes they would and it's something to be encouraged, I even use the Escalating Juggernaut myself, I find it works best in Terminator where it's a lot more cut-throat. Rather than have everyone gang up on you to drag you back down to their level they're more likely to turn on a weaker player and gobble them up before you can.

[Iron Butterfly]

Id like to add my two cents for whatever its worth in this economy.

First this is a forum to share ideas,skills and insight. The OP thinks he has discovered the light bulb or sliced bread and wishes to share this amazing discovery with us. He has stated he is new so because he had just discovered it must be new to us as well. perhaps its human nature. I have been guilty of said behavior. Through trial and error I discovered the obvious.

Second I was excited when I first started playing because I loved the game board Risk and thought that is what i would be playing. I went for continent bonuses and attacked those I felt to strong. I cant tell you how many times I held one or two continents only to log on and find the game had been won. HOW was that possible? I mean I held SA and USA didn't I?

there IS a method to the madness. It is not random and ALL luck. For the longest time I bounced from cook, cadet AFC and back. It wasn't till I clawed my way to Sgt that I learned the right way to play escalating. Ive held steady at Major every since with a few visits back down to capt.

The title of the OP shouldn't be Newcomers Beware but.... Newcomers Need to Learn from their Mistakes.

The best suggestion I can give newcomers who wish to learn how to play and win is to join The School for Cooks. It improved my game ten fold. They teach a solid foundation based the way escalating is PLAYED on this sight. If your interested send me a PM. There are several fine teachers and many supportive folks to play and help you find your way.

Escalating Juggernaut is not some dirty little secret that only a few folks know about. Its the foundation on how the game is played. The key is learning what it takes to be a Juggernaut. Its not as hard as one may think and it is based on skill and observation.

[Jeff Hardy]

Id like to add my two cents for whatever its worth in this economy.

First this is a forum to share ideas,skills and insight. The OP thinks he has discovered the light bulb or sliced bread and wishes to share this amazing discovery with us. He has stated he is new so because he had just discovered it must be new to us as well. perhaps its human nature. I have been guilty of said behavior. Through trial and error I discovered the obvious.

Second I was excited when I first started playing because I loved the game board Risk and thought that is what i would be playing. I went for continent bonuses and attacked those I felt to strong. I cant tell you how many times I held one or two continents only to log on and find the game had been won. HOW was that possible? I mean I held SA and USA didn't I?

there IS a method to the madness. It is not random and ALL luck. For the longest time I bounced from cook, cadet AFC and back. It wasn't till I clawed my way to Sgt that I learned the right way to play escalating. Ive held steady at Major every since with a few visits back down to capt.

The title of the OP shouldn't be Newcomers Beware but.... Newcomers Need to Learn from their Mistakes.

The best suggestion I can give newcomers who wish to learn how to play and win is to join The School for Cooks. It improved my game ten fold. They teach a solid foundation based the way escalating is PLAYED on this sight. If your interested send me a PM. There are several fine teachers and many supportive folks to play and help you find your way.

Escalating Juggernaut is not some dirty little secret that only a few folks know about. Its the foundation on how the game is played. The key is learning what it takes to be a Juggernaut. Its not as hard as one may think and it is based on skill and observation.

very, very well said

[Artimis]

First this is a forum to share ideas,skills and insight.

I couldn't agree more.

The best suggestion I can give newcomers who wish to learn how to play and win is to join The School for Cooks. It improved my game ten fold. They teach a solid foundation based the way escalating is PLAYED on this sight. If your interested send me a PM. There are several fine teachers and many supportive folks to play and help you find your way.

Rock solid sound advice, I'll have to include it in the next edit of the original post.

[owenshooter]

Rock solid sound advice, I'll have to include it in the next edit of the original post.

is there some way to subscribe to this? it sounds utterly fascinating...-6cd

[The Neon Peon]

Urgh! For those of you who are perpetually missing the point and especially for those of you who are DELIBERATELY missing the point (you know who you are and you should take it to the Flame War forum).

No one has flamed anyone in this thread. The closest I have seen to a flame is a question of your validity.

Before I started experimenting with other maps and game settings my rank was Sargeant and I was on track to be Sargeant 1st Class, I threw it all away because I wanted to try new maps and new ways to play(like Team Games). I've tried a lot of different methods, most of them don't work and I'm still testing a few to distruction to make sure that they don't work.

Then maybe you should give advice about the games that kept you at sergeant, rather than at the games where your skill is that of a cook.

As for the matter of my rank, it says I'm a Cook, wow, big deal! I find that rank means little, points come and go, you're only as good as your last victory.

So you are only as bad as your last 5 losses and we should ignore the other 64? Huh?

I take more interest in the number of games that someone has played than I do in how many points they have accumulated.

There were people on the scoreboard who played 84 games and did not win a single one. Do you consider their strategy better than that of a person who has a rank of sergeant in 30 games?

Even after two months I'm still amazed by the number players who question the validity of you're statements based purely on the fact that you're a Cook! I won't quote any of their comments because I don't think they're fit for any posts outside of the flame room.

I did not say anything about you being a cook. I have many cook friends and some of them are really good in certain areas. Some just like to play team games with different people so they constantly end up with deatbeats. I do not question you because of your rank.

I question everything you have said because this magical strategy of yours won you 3 games out of 72 on this setting. I don't care about your skill at the other settings. Maybe you are a very solid no cards player, good for you! Go give me advice about how to play no cards.

I just don't appreciate someone acting like they are an expert at something because they finally got one win after 50 straight losses in that setting.

[Artimis]

I question everything you have said because this magical strategy of YOURS won you 3 games out of 72 on this setting.

That's where you're wrong, I never said it was MY strategy to start with. It's my observation certainly, but not my strategy. Like I said, I've been trying a variety of methods and I've found a few that I like. The topic is about Escalating Juggernauts, not about Artimis' Success Rate.

[owenshooter]

I question everything you have said because this magical strategy of YOURS won you 3 games out of 72 on this setting.

The topic is about Escalating Juggernauts, not about Artimis' Success Rate.

neon... you know the old saying... "those who can't do, post." if this guy spent as much time honing his game as he does bumping his threads and posting observations on how people have beaten him 69 out of 72 times, he'd be a major in no time. and no, i'm not flaming the OP, just making an honest observation.

and seriously, i hate escalating and cards in general, so i rarely play them. thus, i don't get whacked by someone cashing in for an ungodly amount of armies or someone getting lucky with a rainbow set. anyway, enjoy your thread artimis, you are making a difference!!-6cd

p.s.-you already have a parody thread in the GD!!! http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... =6&t=71989

[Iron Butterfly]

"and seriously, i hate escalating and cards in general, so i rarely play them. thus, i don't get whacked by someone cashing in for an ungodly amount of armies or someone getting lucky with a rainbow set. anyway, enjoy your thread artimis, you are making a difference!!-6cd"

Serious Hijack Alert.

Escalating frees one from all the BS. I use to love no cards until I realized that the only way to win against good people was to NOT play and build armies while waiting for the other player to be stupid enough to make a move, in the process making themselves ripe to kill. Was that a run on?

Cards throw in that element of a ticking time bomb while no cards has the element of a clock ticking as one dies from boredom.

Dang I always screw that quote thing up!!

[owenshooter]

Cards throw in that element of a ticking time bomb while no cards has the element of a clock ticking as one dies from boredom.

Dang I always screw that quote thing up!!

yeah, as my buddy timminz says, "learn how to quote"... anyway, i don't play slow build style, i hate that too!! thus, i mostly play doubles, unlimited or chained, no cards... eliminates the luck... however, i'm sure the OP will play these settings, get crushed, and start a thread warning newbs about playing against established teams, because they have team experience, communicate, have a variety of tactics to win and generally do so...-6cd

[Artimis]

*bump*

Post updated, it's starting to get a bit long now and I'll have to prune it back some after a bit of thought. Editorial work is surprisingly hard.

[owenshooter]

*bump*

and gleefully reported.-0

p.s.-artimis, in all seriousness, maybe you should consider creating a discussion group so people
with the same ideas can get together and talk about it and possibly come up with ways to combat
all these things that you detest. bumping your own threads is only going to get you warned and
your threads locked. just a thought...

[Iron Butterfly]

With all do respect owen I cant think of a better place for it then in the strategy section. Granted some aspects of his presentation are annoying but annoying or not the information could be valuable to those new folks without a clue.

I also find the title misleading. It makes it sound as if the strategy used is a ponzi scheme instead of a valid and sound strategy.

Help has been offered and yet he hasn't responded to it.

[Natali]

Granted some aspects of his presentation are annoying but annoying or not the information could be valuable to those new folks without a clue.

I also find the title misleading. It makes it sound as if the strategy used is a ponzi scheme instead of a valid and sound strategy.

My thoughts exactly, it is a good advice with a terrible presentation.

[owenshooter]

My thoughts exactly, it is a good advice with a terrible presentation.

amen...-0

[Artimis]

Original post revised and reformated.

[The Neon Peon]

Fist off... congratulations on actually managing to win a game.

Now go do it on a non-farming map against people who know how to play. Also, a castle map like AoR II does not fit in with any of this stuff. You have not tried to claim that it is, but just telling you that if you want to play this on a normal map, then you would have some more credibility. Although the win rate you have on Waterloo is fine for me currently.

Second... as for your first question. The answer is a simple "no." You do not need any explanation or any of that crap. It is the same as saying that splitting your deploy is cheap tactics. The answer is "no" has always been "no" and will always be "no" in the future. No need to even put "maybe"

Thirdly... 40% is way too much. You give the kill to someone else. In fact... having only 92% of the troops your target has to kill him is enough in an escalating... just like a 5 v 6 roll is a good idea in a doodle assassin (if you are the average rank in the game, that is)

Fourthly... the game is included and limited to exactly terminator and standard. If you don't realize that, you do not know how to play Assassin, and are not very good at team games. Yes, there is a similarity in some strategy, but in a small portion of it.

Well, 4 errors... better than usual.

[owenshooter]

Original post revised and reformated.

bump after 8 days of nobody posting. give up the ghost, this thread is dead.-0

[Artimis]

Fist off... congratulations on actually managing to win a game.

Now go do it on a non-farming map against people who know how to play. Also, a castle map like AoR II does not fit in with any of this stuff. You have not tried to claim that it is, but just telling you that if you want to play this on a normal map, then you would have some more credibility. Although the win rate you have on Waterloo is fine for me currently.

Ignoring the heavy sarcasm, thanks. Also please define 'non-farming map', as I'm convinced that any map has potential for farming.

Second... as for your first question. The answer is a simple "no." You do not need any explanation or any of that crap. It is the same as saying that splitting your deploy is cheap tactics. The answer is "no" has always been "no" and will always be "no" in the future. No need to even put "maybe"

I'll think about it, but no gaurantees.

Thirdly... 40% is way too much. You give the kill to someone else. In fact... having only 92% of the troops your target has to kill him is enough in an escalating... just like a 5 v 6 roll is a good idea in a doodle assassin (if you are the average rank in the game, that is)

I don't much like relying on dice, I'm not a lucky person so I do like to make sure I've got some spare in case of a bad streak. Sometimes I will make do with less because I want to claim the kill before someone else does, knowing full well that they'll claim it if I don't make the first move. I'm still very reluctant to do so however.

Fourthly... the game is included and limited to exactly terminator and standard. If you don't realize that, you do not know how to play Assassin, and are not very good at team games. Yes, there is a similarity in some strategy, but in a small portion of it.

You're forgetting the teamplay games, Doubles, Triples, Quadruples. Point noted about Assassin games, I'll include it in the next edit.

[Iron Butterfly]

The simple fact that you still put it in peoples minds that the strategy is somehow cheap speaks to the vailidity of why people question you.

One can argue that truth is a matter of perspective but that one point is a deal breaker for me.

In the spirit of the New Year here is a list of things in gaming and sports that may be considered cheap.

The hurry up offense is cheap. Rooking in Chess is cheap. Positioning someone behind the 8 ball in pool is cheap. Running all the tricks in spades and hearts is cheap. Bunting a man to second is cheap. Winning a hand with a pair of twos is cheap.

LOL I have been in games where I was the only one playing my style of map position while others choose to go for territory bonus. I was playing against cooks and one stripes. I lost because others knocked all my piles out of continents they wanted. Now is that cheap or what? Stopid noobs dont know how to play escalating and kick my ass. Now that is cheap.