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Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
Neoteny wrote:Do we not have the right to raise our children the way we want to? The answer to this question should be obvious: a resounding "NO!" To give in to such a thought process is what allows people to train their children to be walking bombs, to sabotage their secular education, to destroy their objective faculties, and to cripple their sense of right and wrong. Put simply, if it comes down to a conflict between the rights of our children to avoid damaging religious doctrines, and the right of parents to expound their religion, then we should err on the side of the safety of our children. This may be difficult to hear, as we all hold dear the founding principles of modern democracy, but we need a standardized process that eliminates the destructive habits of all religions, and this is to protect the rights of children, perhaps at the expense of yours. Does this not interfere with our concept of the freedom of religion? I would answer that it does not, as you, as an adult, are free to practice whatever religion you choose, and that your children are, for the first time, able to reap the fruits of that modern concept, without fear of ostracization from the family and the effects of societal punishments. Indeed, they may be the first generation to realize those benefits.

golilox wrote:
In a perfect world yes we would all believe the same thing and all live happily ever after. But I am sorry this is not the case. What you are actually saying is "teach the children nothing about religion" but isn't that a religion in itself? Yip its called being an atheist. Also you cannot make an informed decision to join a religion because, hey you havn't been taught about them.
There will always be different opponents in this world so you will have to choose your side. There isn't really a way around it. You just have to hope and believe that the good will win out at the end of the day.
riskllama wrote:Koolbak wins this thread.
As you might be able to tell from my signature line as well, I am a Christian. I was raised Catholic and then converted to a non-denominational Charismatic Christian (those crazy types that speak in tongues and hang from the rafters). My children go to public school and we teach them at home about the Bible and our faith. There is no teachings about bombing, jihads (that is Muslim and Islam by the way), teenage circumcision or any of those type practices. In school, they are taught about Muslim, Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, and a few other religions all as part of an initiative to teach the children to about religions of the world. When I asked why they didn't include Christianity, I was told by the superintendent of the school, "Everyone already knows about Christianity." But when I asked him about a few basic concepts of the faith, he didn't have the correct answers. Did I have lobby to make a change? No. I left it be. Why am I telling you this? Because I think you need to know that schools already give students a broad understanding of most of the religions of the world right now in which they can then choose to make their own choice. In fact, my kids came home and told me that the Muslim person they had visit them actually asked who would be interested in learning more and took names and addresses to send information. While this is not an absences of religion which is what you are supporting, I think this achieves the same goal because it is also now required for homeschoolers as well in order to pass and have an equivalent degree. My only issue would be that they draw a line at presenting the facts and not actually use the time to proselytizing the children and that is fine with me. However, I would have great issue with imposing on me or anyone else that they could not raise their children to know about their faith.Neoteny wrote:The problem that I see with the latter concepts, but not for the former, is that most of these beliefs are not obviously beneficial, and many are quite harmful to some children.
I don't know where you think you are coming from but you are wrong. As parents we are charged with the care and upbringing of our children and the includes the education and religious education of our children. Just because there are a few nut-jobs out there does not mean that we should stop all parents from doing what they are good at doing. It is like saying some people have been strangled to death by bare hands so from now on all people have to have their hands tied behind their back. That would be absurd and so would it be to take the extreme cases that you mentioned that were very sick and unfortunate and use them to propel an agenda to remove religion from our youth.Neoteny wrote:Do we not have the right to raise our children the way we want to? The answer to this question should be obvious: a resounding "NO!"
An atheist is one who believes there is no god. So, if you pray and believe that somewhere out there there is some kind of divine entity of some form, then you are not an atheist.Megadeth666 wrote:Atheist? MMMM , If I don't believe in a certain god, am I an Atheist?...I do pray that certain things will happen, but who/what am I praying to?
This is a very good question because without these numbers you could not really make the initial assertion because I would put forth that it is most likely that it is a significantly small number of "whack-jobs" that are out there then good people raising kids.KoolBak wrote:AND..to address the original post, what numbers comparatively do the children of said whack-jobs (bombers / mutilators) represent in the world as a whole?
Interesting. While I understand the difference between faith and fact, isn't theology supposed to be the bridge between the two. I mean, isn't it supposed to the list of doctrines (facts) that one believes and puts faith in? I guess I don't know why they would fail. I know sidebarring and derailing the initial post.KoolBak wrote:I was raised agnostic and attended a Brothers of the Holy Cross private catholic college, by the way, as it afforded the best education in my area. I thoroughly enjoyed the 4 years of theology I took...especially watching the die hard bible thumpers consitantly fail their courses as they cannot differentiate between FAITH and FACT....lol.
jesterhawk wrote:I don't know where you think you are coming from but you are wrong. As parents we are charged with the care and upbringing of our children and the includes the education and religious education of our children. Just because there are a few nut-jobs out there does not mean that we should stop all parents from doing what they are good at doing. It is like saying some people have been strangled to death by bare hands so from now on all people have to have their hands tied behind their back. That would be absurd and so would it be to take the extreme cases that you mentioned that were very sick and unfortunate and use them to propel an agenda to remove religion from our youth.Neoteny wrote:Do we not have the right to raise our children the way we want to? The answer to this question should be obvious: a resounding "NO!"
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
riskllama wrote:Koolbak wins this thread.
I see what you are saying.KoolBak wrote:RE: bridging the issues.....not neccessarily....the required 4 years' study enciompassed ALL major religions in the history of the world, completely OBJECTIVELY. Part of this was examining the role of FAITH (99%), but the course study was fact only. Very entertaining...I managed straight A's and learned a great deal ;o) The problem with the folks that failed was that they assumed FAITH as FACT, and it simply is not so.
That's right! You know, I moved to Texas eight and half years ago. I had heard the phrase and thought it was like the state motto. It is actually a state campaign to help clean up the state and stop littering. Kind of ironic how it is used and how it was meant to be used.KoolBak wrote:oh....and I know.....Don't Mess With Texas![]()
Um, yes, now back to the thread.KoolBak wrote:Back to the thread-
Napoleon Ier wrote:You people need to grow up to be honest.
Downey wrote:...my parents told me to jump off the house and eat only pepsi products.
MeDeFe wrote:I'd say you actually agree with Neoteny here. Notice that Neo is not saying that parent's should be prohibited from raising their own children, he's saying that parents shouldn't be allowed to teach their children whatever they want to just because they're parents, regardless of how dumb what they teach their children is.
You just said that there are nut-jobs out there, I presume that means you think they aren't doing the best job of raising their children and that they should be doing it differently. Is that so different from what Neo said?