[GP] Undo, Redo, Mulligan, Take Back Options

[cicero]

This isn't simply an interface change like the proposed "Continue Assaults" Button since it actually allows parts of turns to be taken back.

As such I'm not in favour of it.

Also of course it cannot be implemented in Freestyle games.

[cicero]

This isn't simply an interface change like the proposed "Continue Assaults" Button since it actually allows parts of turns to be taken back.

As such I'm not in favour of it.

Also of course it cannot be implemented in Freestyle games.

[KLOBBER]

Continue assaults button would also allow "parts of turns" to be taken back (indeed that is the very idea, in cases where errors unrelated to game skill were made), but not any parts that affect any dice rolls, nor any that affect any other players' moves or troops.

These suggestions both apply ONLY to cases where errors, such as accidentally pressing the wrong button, were made.

[KLOBBER]

Continue assaults button would also allow "parts of turns" to be taken back (indeed that is the very idea, in cases where errors unrelated to game skill were made), but not any parts that affect any dice rolls, nor any that affect any other players' moves or troops.

These suggestions both apply ONLY to cases where errors, such as accidentally pressing the wrong button, were made.

[jiminski]

The suggestion is undesirable .. heheh so i reckon there is a better than average chance of this coming to fruition


But with honesty I think the premise that making mistakes is not a reflection upon skill, seems to be contradictory.

[KLOBBER]

But with honesty I think the premise that making mistakes is not a reflection upon skill, seems to be contradictory.

Making mistakes means that you may be tired at the moment, or in a hurry, and you accidentally hit a button you know damn well you shouldn't hit, and has nothing to do with actual game skill.

I think you're confusing game skill with button-pushing skill, but you are entitled to your opinion.

In my opinion, game skill has more to do with knowledge of how the game works, ability to predict your opponents' moves, and the like, rather than whether your fingers accidentally hit a button you didn't mean to hit once in a while.

My suggestion would remedy such accidents so that players can more accurately display their ACTUAL game skills.

[Timminz]

But with honesty I think the premise that making mistakes is not a reflection upon skill, seems to be contradictory.

My thoughts, exactly.

[KLOBBER]

The most skilled player in the world can still occasionally press a button on the screen that he didn't mean to press, and this is by no means a reflection upon his actual game skill.

Conversely, a very unskilled player may always press the exact button he wishes to press, and it will be the least intelligent choice each time.

[oVo]

Add a button during and directly after reinforcement stage that allows you to start over your reinforcements in cases where you need to correct a reinforcement error.

This has nothing to do with the POLL you created here.

Measure twice and cut once.

This game requires strategy, planning and a bit of thought before you make a move. Screwing up any deployment is a learning experience that you should eventually figure out and resolve. It does not require a do over button. I also don't require a button to undo attacks if I unintentionally conquer the wrong territory.

If it's the reinforcements that concern you? Only play unlimited fortifications and your shortsightedness can be corrected without adding any new buttons.

[KLOBBER]

I didn't suggest any "Undo Attacks" button, dude.

Please keep it relevant to the subject of the thread.

[oVo]

Solve your own problem by playing the UNLIMITED FORTIFICATION setting dud.

[jiminski]

The most skilled player in the world can still occasionally press a button on the screen that he didn't mean to press, and this is by no means a reflection upon his actual game skill.

Conversely, a very unskilled player may always press the exact button he wishes to press, and it will be the least intelligent choice each time.

Those who lack the intelligence required to distinguish the concept of actual game skill from the concept of pressing a button accidentally are respectfully requested to refrain from posting on this thread.

no, it's all part of the same thing.
The most skilled players may make some mistakes :- pressing the wrong button, deploying in the wrong place and realising later, making a kill attempt at the wrong moment etc. but they will do all of these less than a less skilled player. If this is not the universal truth then they will lose more (or at best at the same frequency), in the same circumstance, than the unskilled player.
If the skilled player loses more, given the same circumstance as the unskilled player, then they can not be adjudged to be more skilled.

also, as i touched upon above: this is up for abuse by rash players who notice too late that there is a better deploy.
Again, rashness (like miss-deploying regularly enough to warrant a rewind button) has to be considered a contributing factor to being less skilled than the pensive, composed player.
The composed, skilled player will not deploy in the wrong place before they work out the better one as often as the rash, unskilled one.

[oVo]

Commiting errors is a part of this game...
obviously BOB and other plugins can't do everything for everyone.

Think First, Act Second... and reduce your mistakes.

[KLOBBER]

Solve your own problem by playing the UNLIMITED FORTIFICATION setting dud.

The setting you mention is wholly and completely irrelevant to the issue of this thread.

You are entitled to lack comprehension, but the rest of CC's members surely understand better than you.

[KLOBBER]

...reduce your mistakes.

Excellent idea!

Wait, that's MY idea!



PS -- Nobody suggested any "Do Over" button in this thread. Please keep your replies relevant to the thread in which you post them.

[jiminski]

<flame>

you make the same mistake enough to warrant a rewind button. It puts you at a disadvantage compared to a person who does not make this mistake as often due to their having learned from that mistake.

I think that learning from your mistakes is the corner-stone of the skilled and repeating the same mistake is the curse of the unskilled.

With that truism in mind i do not think we should put this proposal into operation.

[oVo]

If you want the ability to MOVE ALL YOUR REINFORCEMENTS regardless of your mistaken placements?
Play the unlimited fortifications setting and your lamebrained errors are solved.

This solves your REINFORCEMENTS problem dude. As for the "do over deployment button?"
You will just have to pay better attention to your actions.

People also click END FORTIFICATIONS by mistake as well...
It's all part of the game.

[KLOBBER]

Well, since nobody has suggested a "rewind" button, I'm sure that idea, whatever it may be, will not be implemented.

Please keep your posts relevant to the subject of the thread.

[jiminski]

....

Please keep your posts relevant to the subject of the thread.

it's an unnecessary idea.

you just need to learn not to miss-deploy and your game will improve.

[AceArtemis]

Addendum: If you click End Reinforcements when you havent actually made any reinforcements, you should get asked for confirmation. I've lost a game that way.

This would be good if it was an option that could be disabled, but this would get as annoying as hell if it can't be disabled.

[jiminski]

so the idea advocates a policy of undoing any mistake made rather than the player simply not making the same mistake again and again?

It is not a good precedent to set.

This is true in a game where you need to learn in order to get better but also for broader life.
For example; how would a young driver ever be fit to go on the roads unassisted if they forever hit the accelerator when the brake was required?
This person would surely not be considered a skillful driver .. and, with no rewind button in life, serious accidents would likely occur.


i use the 'foot-pedal' - 'deploy-button' parallel simply to illustrate that miss-deploying is part and parcel of the process of learning. Just as we develop the ability to hit 'the right pedal' in order not to crash, we must take the time to reconsider our reinforcements or deployment in order to be successful in this game.

Not continuously making this mistake and thus directly incurring defeat is by definition a skill which facilitates success.
I think the site needs these tests of basic skills in order to separate the wheat from the chaff.

[KLOBBER]

so the idea advocates a policy of undoing any mistake.... we must take the time to reconsider our reinforcements or deployment in order to be successful in this game....

Again, no, not "any mistake."

This suggestion only applies to mistakes related to hitting the wrong button, [modedit]<flame>[/modedit]

This suggestion does not speak to "mis-deploying." That is Jiminski's error. It speaks to hitting the wrong button when the player (you) meant to hit the right button, knowing full well how to play the game well. It has nothing to do with whether or not you have taken the time to make the right decision, as you can still accidentally hit the wrong button, even though you have the right button in mind, after deliberating for the maximum amount of time. That's called a mistake, and is completely unrelated to actual game skill.

[modedit]<flame>[/modedit]

[Woodruff]

Everyone makes mistakes occasionally, and there is often a lot riding on simple errors involving reinforcement, which do not truly reflect game skill.
[*]Innocent mistakes that are NOT RELATED TO ACTUAL GAME SKILL can be corrected before they reflect negatively on the game

Making a reinforcement mistake IS a reflection on game skill. If a professional baseball player gets in a hitting slump due to fatigue or mental distractions, do you believe that's not a reflection on the players' skill? If you do, then I would suggest that you're not very well-versed on what skill actually is. Skill does not mean "what you can do when you're at your peak performance".

[Woodruff]

Poor Jiminski has missed the point of this thread entirely.
He thinks that hitting a button that one didn't mean to hit is a matter of learning or not learning, but that fantasy is far from the actual case.
Even the most learned person occasionally hits a button that his learning dictates is not the right button to hit. That is called a mistake

No, that is called "not paying attention", and is certainly a reflection on a player's skill.

[Woodruff]

Concise description:

• Add a back button in the reinforcement part after the attacks conclude, to back to attack

Specifics:

• add a back button, once the attack it's conclude, to solve that mistake of press "end attack button" before we want

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• It would be a great gameplay advance, and reduce the human error in the matchs. I doubt this is a hard thing, and can be so useful

Rather than...you know...actually paying attention to what you're doing?