[GP] Undo, Redo, Mulligan, Take Back Options

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Multiple posts edited to reduce the inane redundancy in this thread.

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[jiminski]

no, i think that if someone repeatedly hits the wrong button they are displaying a lack of care and concentration.
If they habitually make this mistake it will obviously seriously affect their ability to win. If i have mastered the skill of re-checking what button i am pressing, why should i not benefit against someone who has not gained this advanced skill!

I have in fact miss-deployed in the past .. it has actually cost me a game, but i accept that and I make every effort not to do it again. This ability to learn engenders a basic desire to win and the art of fulfilling this want.

If i make the mistake you outline in your first post frequently, it shows a lack of care and skill.
I would accept this fact if i had a serious bout of button misapplication; perpetually selecting the incorrect choice, in a game based on making the right choice, is not the path to victory.

So if this is the case why should we allow for the repetition of this basic error?

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[jiminski]

I just don't agree that repeatedly hitting the wrong button is something that we should make allowances for.
The ability to stop yourself from keeping on giving games away in this fashion is a skill to master, just as with all other aspects of the game.

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Even when paying attention, the wrong button is sometimes pressed.

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[john9blue]

Rather than...you know...actually paying attention to what you're doing?

The rest of us tend to make mistakes because we aren't perfect.

[jiminski]

not repeatedly making mistakes must be a requirement of victory.

if we automate a magic-wand to rewind and eradicate errors, this redresses the balance from keen intellect under pressure and tips it towards luck.

[Woodruff]

I have made crystal clear (to any intelligent person) the difference between the concept of actual game skill and the completely unrelated concept of hitting the wrong button accidentally.

You seem to be the only one that believes this is a "difference".

I will not reply to this conceptual error again.

You haven't even made any sort of an intelligent response to it. You simply "call it a conceptual error" and that's it...you've wiped your hands. Please...explain WHY you believe it is such a conceptual mistake and why nobody else in the thread seems to agree with you on that position. In other words, discuss the issue like an adult, rather than a 3-year-old child.

They will also see how deep the ignorance of certain members runs by how many times they think it's necessary to repeat the same conceptual error within the same thread, even after having been proven absolutely wrong.

Yet, we haven't been "proven" anything of the sort, as the intelligent readers well understand.

[Woodruff]

Even when paying attention, the wrong button is sometimes pressed.

I'll refrain from suggesting what sort of an intellect would press the wrong button while paying close attention to what they're doing...so I'll suffice it to say that if you do still press the wrong button, then you weren't paying close attention to what you were doing.

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[Woodruff]

Rather than...you know...actually paying attention to what you're doing?

The rest of us tend to make mistakes because we aren't perfect.

I've certainly made this mistake myself...many times, in fact. Particularly when I'm using my wife's laptop with it's HATEABLE touch-mousepad-thingy-piece-of-crap.

I just realize that it's MY MISTAKE and I should have paid better attention to what I was doing.

[KLOBBER]

Despite Woodruff's unsuccessful attempt at derailing this thread by posting statements irrelevant to its subject, it is a serious suggestion, and a good one at that.

Please see the beginning of this thread for the real deal, and avoid Woody's silly nonsense posts.

[TheBro]

Being one of the better button pushers out there, I personally do want wish to give people a second chance. Bad idea.

[oVo]

Errors are part of the game. Some people actually click auto attack when they only meant to attack.
You may be fortunate enough to get a "Do Over" on your next turn.

I do not want to see an
ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO DO THAT?
prompt after every action I take in a game.

When you take your turn there are consequences to every action that you have to accept.

[jiminski]

well you do need to try to engage posters in this. We are making perfectly fair and reasoned assessments based upon our opinions.
Your playing 'one potato, 2 potato' by editing and repeatedly re-posting the same post, is not good stewardship of this thread. Particularly due to the post dismissing us out of hand, it has not really addressed our doubts.


the point being that not making the same mistake over and over again (pressing the wrong button) should be an easy skill to learn. If you can not learn it, as with all the other nuances of the game, you will be at a disadvantage to the person who can. It is either that others have taken the time to learn that skill or they have more inherent button selecting acumen.
Either way:- the effort/ability to learn should be rewarded, the lack of effort/ability should not be allowed for.

[KLOBBER]

I have made crystal clear (to any intelligent person) the difference between the concept of actual game skill and the completely unrelated concept of hitting the wrong button accidentally.

I will not reply to this conceptual error again.

[modedit]<flame bait>[/modedit]

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I have not suggested what Ovo placed in his previous post, so that post is 100% irrelevant to my actual suggestion.

[jiminski]

I have made crystal clear (to any intelligent person) the difference between the concept of actual game skill and the completely unrelated concept of hitting the wrong button accidentally.

I will not reply to this conceptual error again.


[modedit]<flame bait>[/modedit]

I am not sure what the point in your repeating of this post is.

Perhaps it is part of the same problem you have with repeatedly pressing the wrong button!?

if there is a form of 'button pressing Tourette's syndrome' then i would be more predisposed to championing a 'rewind button' but as i am unaware of the medical surety of this, my position remains with :-

Acquiring the skill of not making the same mistakes over and over again (repeatedly pressing the wrong button or any other error) has to be the preferred state.

and again, who is to say this will not be abused by users who simply see a better move after pressing?

[MoB Deadly]

I am in favor of this idea, have lost games more than once because of deployment errors (example i want to deploy on barbarians 6, but I accidentally place on Feudal 6) I mean its just a dumb mistake that I wish could be taken back.

[Woodruff]

I am in favor of this idea, have lost games more than once because of deployment errors (example i want to deploy on barbarians 6, but I accidentally place on Feudal 6) I mean its just a dumb mistake that I wish could be taken back.

Yet how is that mistake any different than, for instance, not taking the time to notice that you didn't take over an entire bonus area (missing one non-apparent territory)? It's quite simply an error of attention to detail and the skillful player has the advantage of not making those nearly as often as the unskilled player. The game shouldn't be expected to spoonfeed your strategies and movements to you.

[MoB Deadly]

I am in favor of this idea, have lost games more than once because of deployment errors (example i want to deploy on barbarians 6, but I accidentally place on Feudal 6) I mean its just a dumb mistake that I wish could be taken back.

Yet how is that mistake any different than, for instance, not taking the time to notice that you didn't take over an entire bonus area (missing one non-apparent territory)? It's quite simply an error of attention to detail and the skillful player has the advantage of not making those nearly as often as the unskilled player. The game shouldn't be expected to spoonfeed your strategies and movements to you.

I agree with you that it is attention to detail and a skilled player will make it less often than unskilled players. I have learned to double and triple check, especially on maps like feudal. (BOB has helped as well because it has the number of troops on it in parenthesis). However, I am currently have 80 active games, its just tedious sometimes having to recheck to make sure I am going to the right territories.

Also, if you play Risk in real life, you aren't going to make a deployment mistake, (you can make dumb ones you regret later, but it is not going to be a mistake where you say I meant to place on this one but accidentally just placed them on that one instead.)

I am not saying this is a change that must be made because I make too many mistakes, I am just saying it would be a nice luxury to have without changing anything major, it's just one button.

[KLOBBER]

I am in favor of this idea, have lost games more than once because of deployment errors (example i want to deploy on barbarians 6, but I accidentally place on Feudal 6) I mean its just a dumb mistake that I wish could be taken back.

Yet how is that mistake any different than, for instance, not taking the time to notice that you didn't take over an entire bonus area (missing one non-apparent territory)? It's quite simply an error of attention to detail and the skillful player has the advantage of not making those nearly as often as the unskilled player. The game shouldn't be expected to spoonfeed your strategies and movements to you.

I agree with you that it is attention to detail and a skilled player will make it less often than unskilled players. I have learned to double and triple check, especially on maps like feudal. (BOB has helped as well because it has the number of troops on it in parenthesis). However, I am currently have 80 active games, its just tedious sometimes having to recheck to make sure I am going to the right territories.

Also, if you play Risk in real life, you aren't going to make a deployment mistake, (you can make dumb ones you regret later, but it is not going to be a mistake where you say I meant to place on this one but accidentally just placed them on that one instead.)

I am not saying this is a change that must be made because I make too many mistakes, I am just saying it would be a nice luxury to have without changing anything major, it's just one button.

MD makes good points.

Another major difference is that this suggestion would never affect any other player's moves or armies, which shows that Woody's comparison is a thoughtless one.