The CIA and the FBI are two completely seperate organizations. They have a history of not sharing vital information.PLAYER57832 wrote:GabonX wrote:No, the CIA has stated that a second act of airplane highjacking and vandalism was averted due to the interrogation. You guys are denying what happened based on a negative emotional reaction you have to percieved torture.
No, based on FBI testimony as well as testimony of many others. NO attacks were really averted.
Link: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... =103475220
(note, this is just one of a series of interviews and articles on the matter... I only posted one)
A statement made by a member of the FBI about CIA intelligence can, and should be disregarded.
PLAYER57832 wrote:GabonX wrote:Believe me, this isn't the last we are going to hear about this, but if it really weren't true we would have likely heard from the current administration. Why would it be in their interest to hide the fact that water boarding did not avert an attack if it were true?
You are misinformed. In fact, the current administration has spoken out. Obama has stated officially that he does not want those CIA operatives that were going under orders to be prosecuted. Whether those making the decisions should be punished is still "up for grabs". In addition, there is growing information that many of the underlings well exceeded even the expanded Bush guidelines.
You're ignoring the issue. The administration has remained silent as to what the results of enhanced interrogation were in the face of claims that they averted another act of airplane hijacking and vandalism.
PLAYER57832 wrote:The most useful information was uncovered BEFORE the people were tortured, not after. That said, there were small snippets optained under torture, but very little of it was not already known/found out through other means and many long-time interrogators have asserted that the same information could have been obtained, perhaps even quicker, if torture had not been used.GabonX wrote:Hopefully the reports are released in a reasonable amount of time.
That is the real problem. Torture is just NOT an EFFECTIVE means of gaining real information.
Further, if we have to become the enemy to save ourselves ... have we really saved ourselves?
You're claims here totally disregard the outlined facts. From the article:
After KSM was captured by the United States, he was not initially cooperative with CIA interrogators. Nor was another top al Qaeda leader named Zubaydah.
Before they were subjected to “enhanced techniques” of interrogation that included waterboarding, KSM and Zubaydah were not only uncooperative but also appeared contemptuous of the will of the American people to defend themselves.
“In particular, the CIA believes that it would have been unable to obtain critical information from numerous detainees, including KSM and Abu Zubaydah, without these enhanced techniques,” says the Justice Department memo. “Both KSM and Zubaydah had ‘expressed their belief that the general US population was ‘weak,’ lacked resilience, and would be unable to ‘do what was necessary’ to prevent the terrorists from succeeding in their goals.’ Indeed, before the CIA used enhanced techniques in its interrogation of KSM, KSM resisted giving any answers to questions about future attacks, simply noting, ‘Soon you will know.’”
After he was subjected to the “waterboard” technique, KSM became cooperative, providing intelligence that led to the capture of key al Qaeda allies and, eventually, the closing down of an East Asian terrorist cell that had been tasked with carrying out the 9/11-style attack on Los Angeles.
As for your quip about us becoming our own enemy, it is sentimental and irrational. Matters of national security require pragmatism, not misguided and emotional ideology.
To answer your question as to who was saved, the answer is very simple. The thousands of people who work in the targetted building every day are the ones who were saved.
