The map formerly known as World Cities

[sully800]

I will be gone for the next week so we won't have any more updates. Stay tuned folks.

[Tiller]

I like the idea and all... but if you're having trouble with Europe being too cramped, why not just make Europe several pixels bigger, vertically? There's tons of room to move Africa down and Scandinavia up. It's not like it matters if it's 100% accurate to a Mercator projection as long as it's still recognizable, and it's already not perfectly aligned.

Is it intentional that this is pretty much the same thing as Classic in a drastically revamped moving of where things are said to be located, or did that just end up being the way things turned out? The South American cities bonus have exactly the same benefits and problems that Classic Australia/Oceania always had, etc. An Atlantic link in the south for instance would solve that, but make the two small bonuses too easy to hold both of, and may be against what you were going for if the answer to the question is yes. I would like to see Berlin and a central Asian city added, maybe another in Africa, if you're going to divert from stealthed Classic gameplay standards.

[JoshyBoy]

I love this map!



Seriously, it looks cool!

Keep working on it Sully!

[NemesisChild]

This map looks awesome
I like the atlas style graphics for the land masses

I think it would definitely benefit from an extra city or two in Asia
You could always drop a city or two from europe if its getting to cramped

[sully800]

Thanks for the compliments guys. I certainly have not given up the development of this map, but production will be stalled possibly throughout this week.

Europe is already stretched vertically compared to the other continents, though the difference is slight. To fit that many cities in such a continent would require too much stretching/distortion or create too cramped a space (the current problem). I've already been told that strict continent divisions are not a good idea anyway, so instead I will draft a few Middle East cities to Europe, and then expand the East Asia continent to include some Central Asian cities as repeatedly requested.

[Gilligan]

Not sure if this has been brought up but does Honolulu belong to a bonus?

[sully800]

Not sure if this has been brought up but does Honolulu belong to a bonus?

Honolulu belongs to North America (correct politically, not necessarily geographically).

I was thinking about that today again before you posted, and I think I will move the island (who am I, Ben Linus??) toward North America, and move the label to the right side to make the relationship more apparent.

[iancanton]

Europe is already stretched vertically compared to the other continents, though the difference is slight. To fit that many cities in such a continent would require too much stretching/distortion or create too cramped a space (the current problem).

if u think u're stretching things north-south too much, then u ought to see the hasbro board that i have, where the world map is square! we'd probably benefit from a bit more vertical stretching, since it doesn't really matter if the title impinges on the empty arctic wastes of siberia, while europe would become much clearer. u're doing fine in africa, which does not need any more cities or connections to be a classic-style bonus zone.

ian.

[sully800]

Here's the much awaited update I've been working on this week.

Click image to enlarge.

Changes:
Lots of reformatting to Europe and Asia once again. Old Europe will now be known as Europe + Mediterranean due to the adoption of Egypt and Istanbul. Asia is now East Asia, and Africa is now Subsaharan Africa. I think the borders and spacing work much better in this edition, especially in Asia (no huge blank space!). The whole map was stretched vertically another 30 pixels or so to help with spacing. The distortion isn't too bad but I would prefer to not stretch much more.

I also added the top and bottom borders to show the country flag for each city. This adds some much need color to the map and I'm very pleased with the result.

The globes were enlarged slightly because the previous resolution caused the bottoms to look flat. I also colored the bonus numbers to match the corresponding bonus region as suggested.

[ender516]

This map is looking really sharp! The flags are a master stroke, and whatever stretching you have done has not reached the point of making things look distorted (apart from the expected distortion of almost any world map projected onto a rectangle).

[MrBenn]

LA and NYC look out of place being the only abbreviated city labels.

On the whole it's looking nice

[RjBeals]

Where have you been hiding Sully - why haven't you been making maps yet? You obviously have the skill!

These are just my preferences, and I'm honestly happy with the map as is..

* I think the globes look a little too flat. I would spherize the land masses, and maybe even the bonus numbers, to wrap around the globe a little bit

* I really like the bevel on the land, but in some spots it looks a little too smooth. I prefer the harder edge. I would maybe play with the bevel settings a bit more.

* I would really try and snaz up the title. Now it looks like you picked a font, typed it in and added a glow to it. I think this map deserves a really cool title.

* Love the flags, but I might try to put some sort of graphic line border around them. Just on the map side (not the map border side, if that makes sense). Just a little extra detail to add.

[barterer2002]

Wow, sully, it looks great. I'm wondering though if Jakarta and Honolulu have too many attack paths. Honolulu has 6 attack paths in and out while Jakarta has 5. I realize that there are other cities with 5 attack paths (Chendu, Sydney, Berlin) but for the most part those are within Bonuses while Honolulu and Jakarta have multiple continent borders. I don't know if its an issue but wanted to bring it up and see what you thought.

[ender516]

LA and NYC look out of place being the only abbreviated city labels.

On the whole it's looking nice

Good point, I agree. There is room to spell the names out in full, I think, and that would look better. I presume that the drop-down lists would spell the names in full, as well, and the map and these lists should match wherever possible.

[ender516]

* I would really try and snaz up the title. Now it looks like you picked a font, typed it in and added a glow to it. I think this map deserves a really cool title.

* Love the flags, but I might try to put some sort of graphic line border around them. Just on the map side (not the map border side, if that makes sense). Just a little extra detail to add.

I like the title as it is, clean and legible, and while you might put some sort of embellishment between the flags and the map proper, I see the flags AS the border of the map and would be inclined to leave them as they are.

[SultanOfSurreal]

not digging the flags. too much clutter.

of course i also want to see the map go back to solid colors for each continent, but that was deemed untenable due to arcane copyright issues

[thenobodies80]

I also want to see the map go back to solid colors for each continent, but that was deemed untenable due to arcane copyright issues

I disagree with this view. The colored continents are more easily recognizable, but this map is called "World Cities" ,so a group of cities could give a bonus, not a group of contry.I don't see a valid reason to go back, Sully is on the right way, with or without copyright issues.
Instead, I'd like to see an improvement for the title and ,if you can, use it to cover a bit the empty space on the northern part of asia.

Sully you're doing a nice map!

Ps:

* I really like the bevel on the land, but in some spots it looks a little too smooth. I prefer the harder edge. I would maybe play with the bevel settings a bit more.

[sully800]

Small update based on your comments - thanks for the feedback by the way!

LA and NYC look out of place being the only abbreviated city labels.

There is room for "Los Angeles" but I worry about fitting all of "New York City", especially because it has to fit on the right and left sides of the map. I could just write New York but even then space would be cramped.

I was planning on also abbreviating them LA and NYC in the XML. I HATE when maps use an abbreviation in one place and full spelling elsewhere - it just causes unnecessary headaches. Anyway, this will be an ongoing debate I suppose, I'd like to hear more opinions.

* I think the globes look a little too flat. I would spherize the land masses, and maybe even the bonus numbers, to wrap around the globe a little bit

I used a fisheye effect on both globes to spherize them. The left one looks okay I think because there is land near the edge, but the right one looks pretty flat since the land is in the center. For both globes I should try to distort them more on the vertical plane. And I agree the the bonus numbers should wrap around the globe - will update.

* I really like the bevel on the land, but in some spots it looks a little too smooth. I prefer the harder edge. I would maybe play with the bevel settings a bit more.

Can you highlight any specific areas that are too smooth? I think that Eastern Russia looks sharper than Eastern NA right now, but they have the same bevel settings so I can't pinpoint the problem. I made the bevel slightly deeper and smaller which would make it look sharper but I don't think that corrected the problem.

* I would really try and snaz up the title. Now it looks like you picked a font, typed it in and added a glow to it. I think this map deserves a really cool title.

Instead, I'd like to see an improvement for the title and ,if you can, use it to cover a bit the empty space on the northern part of asia.

I definitely agree that the title needs to be embellished. I liked my earlier version with the globe under the "World" but I don't think it will work now that the globes show the bonuses. As you can see in this edition I made a very crappy new title. It's slightly pixelated because I stretched it, but even if it was crisp I think it would be a bad solution. I just left it to show you all one option in the hopes that it might give someone else a better idea.

* Love the flags, but I might try to put some sort of graphic line border around them. Just on the map side (not the map border side, if that makes sense). Just a little extra detail to add.

Agreed, so I added a drop shadow at the top and bottom. I think its an improvement though maybe the shadow is too strong right now.

Wow, sully, it looks great. I'm wondering though if Jakarta and Honolulu have too many attack paths. Honolulu has 6 attack paths in and out while Jakarta has 5. I realize that there are other cities with 5 attack paths (Chendu, Sydney, Berlin) but for the most part those are within Bonuses while Honolulu and Jakarta have multiple continent borders. I don't know if its an issue but wanted to bring it up and see what you thought.

I understand your concern since other inter-continent borders are mostly single connections. This makes Honolulu and Jakarta much more important to hold, and also harder to hold. They are partly this way because they are in the center of the map and the center of three continents which is where I think the primary action should take place. The other part is to counterbalance the other simpler borders that are more remote. London-NY have a single intercontinent border, but they are also remote and likely won't have other big stacks near them. Jakarta on the other hand has many intercontinent borders, yet it also borders Manila and Sydney which will likely have big stacks on them. which can reinforce Jakarta if it is broken. I would also like to point out that Jakarta actually has 6 borders, not 5. I adjusted the Jakarta-Manila connection which was not very visible in the last edition.

Click image to enlarge.

[barterer2002]

On a related note here Sully, Europe looks like its going to be much easier to hold. It has only 3 international borders (London-New York, Cairo-Lagos and Moscow-Novosibirsk). Asia, by contrast, has that many borders just in Tokyo (Honolulu, Los Angeles, and Seattle). I understand the point about Honolulu but I guess I'd like to see either more links into Europe (and to a lesser extent Africa-I know you're trying to mimic Classic's South America but if that's the case I'd like to see less links into each of the other areas) or fewer into Oceania and North America. It just feels unbalanced to me.

[ender516]

Small update based on your comments - thanks for the feedback by the way!

LA and NYC look out of place being the only abbreviated city labels.

There is room for "Los Angeles" but I worry about fitting all of "New York City", especially because it has to fit on the right and left sides of the map. I could just write New York but even then space would be cramped.
I was planning on also abbreviating them LA and NYC in the XML. I HATE when maps use an abbreviation in one place and full spelling elsewhere - it just causes unnecessary headaches. Anyway, this will be an ongoing debate I suppose, I'd like to hear more opinions.

I think you can find room for "New York City" if you swoop the "To London" line further south before heading north and east off the edge of the map. On the west side, make it
To
New
York
City
and you should be fine.
Failing that, drop the word "City". WIth this map, it should be understood that you are not talking about the Empire State.

* I would really try and snaz up the title. Now it looks like you picked a font, typed it in and added a glow to it. I think this map deserves a really cool title.

Instead, I'd like to see an improvement for the title and ,if you can, use it to cover a bit the empty space on the northern part of asia.

I definitely agree that the title needs to be embellished. I liked my earlier version with the globe under the "World" but I don't think it will work now that the globes show the bonuses. As you can see in this edition I made a very crappy new title. It's slightly pixelated because I stretched it, but even if it was crisp I think it would be a bad solution. I just left it to show you all one option in the hopes that it might give someone else a better idea.

Please let there be a better idea. The flags pattern really reduces the legibility of the title.

* Love the flags, but I might try to put some sort of graphic line border around them. Just on the map side (not the map border side, if that makes sense). Just a little extra detail to add.

Agreed, so I added a drop shadow at the top and bottom. I think its an improvement though maybe the shadow is too strong right now.

I like the shadow. The flags now make a nice frame for the map proper.

[oaktown]

Love the way you're showing the region bonuses... brilliant.

If you shift Moscow (and its connections) up to become St. Petersburg, you could shift Volgograd up to be moscow, Istanbul up to be Volgograd, Cairo up to become Istanbul, and Lagos up to become Cairo... that way you have a larger Europe and a four territory Africa.

Why is "World Cities" so pixely?

Delhi is way too far north. I know it doesn't have to be perfect, but Delhi looks odd way up there.

Would you consider Denver rather than Las Vegas, since you're showing Vegas where Denver should be anyway? Plus, Denver is more of an air hub anyway.

You mention Jakarta having six borders - perhaps the connections will have to be made a bit more obvious, since the Jakarta - Manila line gets lost in there.

[the.killing.44]

Just as a quick comment: the flag title is yikes! The old one is much better (though you could keep experimenting); keep the flags in the border where they look nice

.44

[Danyael]

just an idea
but maybe the title look something along these lines

(please ignore the graphic quality couldn't get to my photoshop computer to today)

[sully800]

just an idea
but maybe the title look something along these lines
(please ignore the graphic quality couldn't get to my photoshop computer to today)

Sweet draft, I definitely like the idea. I also thought about adding some faces/figures from around the world, but that would be a lot more work and probably wouldn't turn out as nice.

Love the way you're showing the region bonuses... brilliant.

Thanks!

If you shift Moscow (and its connections) up to become St. Petersburg, you could shift Volgograd up to be moscow, Istanbul up to be Volgograd, Cairo up to become Istanbul, and Lagos up to become Cairo... that way you have a larger Europe and a four territory Africa.

For one thing, that goes back to continental divisions which was something I was trying to stray away from.
Secondly, it reverts to an overly crowded Europe and a more barren Africa which I don't think is necessary. I suppose the connections could work out, but the spacing would be off (and St. Petersburg would have to loop around Moscow to connect to Novos which would be weird)

Why is "World Cities" so pixely?

Because I shrunk all the flags down to be a block around the title. Outlined it. Then decided it was too small and enlarged it (as a rasterized image not text). I didn't fix the pixelation because I knew it would be illegible either way, and a solution like Danyael's would look much better.

Delhi is way too far north. I know it doesn't have to be perfect, but Delhi looks odd way up there.

It is indeed too far North and can be lowered. I will probably lower Mumbai a bit as well so they are not too close together, but will try to keep them as close to correct as possible.

Would you consider Denver rather than Las Vegas, since you're showing Vegas where Denver should be anyway? Plus, Denver is more of an air hub anyway.

Yes, that city started as Denver and was switched to Las Vegas because someone suggested it was more of a "world city" and still close to the right geography. Looking at a map now, I see Las Vegas is too close to LA to be in the right location so I will switch it back to Denver which is still a major hub.

You mention Jakarta having six borders - perhaps the connections will have to be made a bit more obvious, since the Jakarta - Manila line gets lost in there.

It's still not clear in the 10th addition? I can move the line more but I thought it was already pretty visible now.

[thenobodies80]

With this title there are too many flags around and it's too showy.
Honestly, i have no idea about a good way to do it ...but i think that a use of a solid color and a nice font could be better

About "to london"-"to NYC" concern...

Why not to draw only the attack line?
You said that you have the space to write "Los Angeles" and without "to London" you can find the space to write New York City" instead NYC (obviously you have to remove the "TO NYC" near London).
Then you can explain the link London-NYC with a simple text in the lower part of your map (for example you have some space below Africa), something like "New York City and London can attack each other".