Moderator: Cartographers




I completely agree with everything barterer has said.barterer2002 wrote:OK, I've been asked here for my thoughts so lets look at a few things.
1). It seems to me that whoever deploys in London gets a huge advantage. How, really would anyone attack London here. While I realize that there is some historical basis for this, in a CC map it needs to have some balance. Whoever gets London takes Wales and then just can move everyone to Cyprus secure in the 10 protection from the Channel. I don't see any of the Europeans attacking across that early in the game. On the other hand, the other players will all have to protect their home bases throughout.
2). IMO you've got way way way too many bonuses here. I count 17 different bonuses not even including the extras one gets for holding something plus another something (i.e. HRE plus Corsica and Sardinia).
3). Why does the Vatican start off as N6 and not Grenada. In terms of game play they're both important as either one or the other is necessary for the conquest. Historically speaking they're also important as Grenada is the choke point for the Med and the Muslim control limited what fleets of ships could sail through.
4). Since you're seeming to intend this to be a conquest game rather than a defeat your opponents type of game for the most part (see comments on London also you're earlier comments that it won't work for Assassin) are you providing a different advantage to the holder of Cairo who goes through two terts to get to Jerusalem over a starting point like Tunis which has to go through 5.
I guess my main concerns here are that the game play is fairly unbalanced with different starting positions having clear advantages over others.
But here's the problem, In a game of risk while you don't want the battle to be fought in Northern/Central Europe because you're putting players there it will get fought there. It may be nice to say that the battle needs to be fought in the middle east but you're really giving great advantages to those who get London IMO. I realize that you're pushing the game to be objective based but you've created it so that certain starting points really can't be eliminated early while others are at immediate risk and can be taken on the first turn if the dice fall great. To me, that's a major design flaw.Kabanellas wrote: Barterer – well the game is not intended to be fought over Central/Northern Europe – those 10 neutrals in the English Channel are there to emphasise that. Remember victory points are in the Mediterranean- Middle East. And the Third Crusade was fought there.
Bonuses appear to give that extra flavour to the game and in many cases to force the game-play to actually resemble the wars fought in the Third Crusade time frame – I know that in a first approach they will seem a bit confusing, But I’m sure that by the second time that people get a good look at the map and familiarize with it, they will all be pretty self-explanatory.
)


Okay, I went back and read your posts about this. It doesn't quite make sense to me to have no man's land bonuses and simply make them not worth holding onto - especially when we're talking about 12 territories. I appreciate the historical aspects of the game, but since this is a map that people are playing a game on, gameplay should be a high priority.Kabanellas wrote:Hungary/Serbia – will always be a buffer for the Byzantine Empire. A Player that starts there could move (or not) his/hers borders a little further to central Europe without having a real big benefit for it. And again, this was debated before..... I’ll try to repost everything concerning this matter below.
Kabanellas wrote:Can we have an auto-deploy region that is triggered by possessing another region?
Correctdolomite13 wrote:I thought you needed to assign autodeploys to a single territory and that a bonus for two territories would be assigned as though you were holding a continent and the bonus would be a generic bonus that could be dropped anywhere you control.
Code: Select all
<territory>
<name>Blackwidow Roost</name>
<borders>
<border>Frogstomp</border>
<border>Deadmen Dancing</border>
<border>Magic Wand</border>
<border>Gizzard Gue</border>
<border>Well of Spells</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
<smallx>430</smallx>
<smally>450</smally>
<largex>530</largex>
<largey>549</largey>
</coordinates>
<neutral>6</neutral>
<bonus>1</bonus>
</territory>

About the France-Ratisbone issue:
Remember that there are negative effects from having Ratisbone and any French region…. Being so, if a player starting in Paris got so lucky to take Ratisbone He would be put out of game… (he would receive the normal 3 but would have a negative effect of -4 – He would have no armies to deploy in the next round.)


Yeah, I was rather confused by this as well and to a larger point, I think this will be tremendously frustrating during gameplay as a player holding Paris or Ratisbone will have no recourse to disable their opponent to the West. In Risk, it isn't enough to just defend your territories well, you need to be able to hinder your opponents growth as well.barterer2002 wrote: Now in truth the way it works is that holding Ratts and any French tert is going to be -4 but for some reason you haven't gotten it written that way. (you've got the French/Iberia type of thing that should likely be fixed).
However, this map has similar boundaries. Unlike New World, a player CAN attack from France to Iberia, but why would they? The border between Toulouse and Iberia may as well be impassable from Paris's POV, except that the Leon player can torment them endlessly - without fear of retaliation.Kabanellas wrote:But I just didn’t want to go in the way that the ‘New world’ map went, having the European powers in a small frame without connection between each others.
But the difference between starting positions in maps like New World are minor. Here there is some major imbalance in play.Kabanellas wrote:
Barterer, I realize that they are not all equally balanced (yet), but that happens in some others maps too. Bringing up the New World map example again: if you start in a European country you’ll get an advantage over someone starting in the native’s homeland, because of the ‘landing point’ bonus.

