Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

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Juan_Bottom
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Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by Juan_Bottom »

This thread has nothing to do with Norse. I just didn't want to bump his old thread, but thought you might like to see this:
http://www.mercedsunstar.com/362/story/1118485.html

So we may soon have ourselves a conservative Bible.

Besides Fox News, I mean.

This new Bible is from Conservapedia, a Web site that bills itself as a conservative alternative to the perceived liberal bias of Wikipedia, the user-edited online reference.

You may judge Conservapedia's own bias by reading its definition of liberal: "someone who rejects logical and biblical standards, often for self-centered reasons. There are no coherent liberal standards; often a liberal is merely someone who craves attention, and who uses many words to say nothing."

For the record, Wikipedia defines conservative as a word referring "to various political and social philosophies that support tradition and the status quo, or that call for a return to the values and society of an earlier age. ..."

Now, having protected unwary Americans from -- ahem -- Wikipedia's bias, Conservapedia founder Andrew Schlafly (son of Phyllis) tackles perceived bias in the Good Book.

He proposes to correct the Bible by creating a new translation based upon 10 principles, including: concision (as opposed to "liberal wordiness"); an emphasis on "free market parables" and the exclusion of "liberal passages" he says were inserted into the original text.

One such would be the well-known story of the adulterous woman brought before Christ by a crowd eager to see her punished; Jesus says the one without sin should cast the first stone.

As biblical scholar Bart Ehrman demonstrates in his book "Misquoting Jesus," that passage and others were indeed inserted into the Gospels -- by copyists whose transcriptions were once the primary means by which Bibles and other books were disseminated.

We're talking about the era before the printing press, i.e., pre-15th century, so apparently, "liberals" have been at this a long time.

Of course, conservatives are not the first folks to recast the Bible in their own image.

Oxford University Press was justly ridiculed in 1995 for a PC Bible whose touchy-feely innovations included gender-neutral language so as not to offend women and a ban on phrases like "the right hand of God" in deference to southpaws.

But if Oxford's excesses resulted from a misguided attempt at inclusiveness, the forces guiding Schlafly are less benign. He is part of an ongoing crusade to delegitimize any institution, any information source, any inconvenient "fact" that contradicts conservative beliefs.

Rather than trust those beliefs to stand or fall in the free market of ideas, some conservatives now apply a kind of intellectual protectionism.

So now you have your conservative newspaper, your conservative radio station, your conservative university, your conservative "facts," and, apparently, your conservative God, and you may build yourself a conservative life in a conservative bubble where you need never contend with ideas that challenge, contradict -- or "refine" -- your own.

But here's the thing: When no authority can be regarded as unimpeachable by both right and left, when no fact can be universally accepted as such, when anything you prefer not to believe is automatically dismissed as a product of "bias," you impoverish intellect and render informed debate impossible.

You may think Dwyane Wade is the best there is and I may prefer Kobe Bryant, but if we can't agree they both play a game called basketball, if you say it's basketball but my conservative dictionary tells me it's actually checkers, then we can't even have the debate; our assumptions are too fundamentally incompatible.

We live in different realities.

As in the recent spectacle of Americans shouting past each other like Martians and Venusians arguing in Farsi.

Conservapedia's effort to remake Jesus of Nazareth in the image of Dick Cheney suggests a future filled with more of the same.

A conservative Bible? Lord, have mercy.


I love Leonard Pitts Jr.

He was dead on too about that site. WTF America?
http://conservapedia.com/Liberal
http://conservapedia.com/Conservative

http://conservapedia.com/Main_Page
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by Frigidus »

Juan_Bottom wrote:This thread has nothing to do with Norse. I just didn't want to bump his old thread, but thought you might like to see this:
http://www.mercedsunstar.com/362/story/1118485.html

So we may soon have ourselves a conservative Bible.

Besides Fox News, I mean.

This new Bible is from Conservapedia, a Web site that bills itself as a conservative alternative to the perceived liberal bias of Wikipedia, the user-edited online reference.

You may judge Conservapedia's own bias by reading its definition of liberal: "someone who rejects logical and biblical standards, often for self-centered reasons. There are no coherent liberal standards; often a liberal is merely someone who craves attention, and who uses many words to say nothing."

For the record, Wikipedia defines conservative as a word referring "to various political and social philosophies that support tradition and the status quo, or that call for a return to the values and society of an earlier age. ..."

Now, having protected unwary Americans from -- ahem -- Wikipedia's bias, Conservapedia founder Andrew Schlafly (son of Phyllis) tackles perceived bias in the Good Book.

He proposes to correct the Bible by creating a new translation based upon 10 principles, including: concision (as opposed to "liberal wordiness"); an emphasis on "free market parables" and the exclusion of "liberal passages" he says were inserted into the original text.

One such would be the well-known story of the adulterous woman brought before Christ by a crowd eager to see her punished; Jesus says the one without sin should cast the first stone.

As biblical scholar Bart Ehrman demonstrates in his book "Misquoting Jesus," that passage and others were indeed inserted into the Gospels -- by copyists whose transcriptions were once the primary means by which Bibles and other books were disseminated.

We're talking about the era before the printing press, i.e., pre-15th century, so apparently, "liberals" have been at this a long time.

Of course, conservatives are not the first folks to recast the Bible in their own image.

Oxford University Press was justly ridiculed in 1995 for a PC Bible whose touchy-feely innovations included gender-neutral language so as not to offend women and a ban on phrases like "the right hand of God" in deference to southpaws.

But if Oxford's excesses resulted from a misguided attempt at inclusiveness, the forces guiding Schlafly are less benign. He is part of an ongoing crusade to delegitimize any institution, any information source, any inconvenient "fact" that contradicts conservative beliefs.

Rather than trust those beliefs to stand or fall in the free market of ideas, some conservatives now apply a kind of intellectual protectionism.

So now you have your conservative newspaper, your conservative radio station, your conservative university, your conservative "facts," and, apparently, your conservative God, and you may build yourself a conservative life in a conservative bubble where you need never contend with ideas that challenge, contradict -- or "refine" -- your own.

But here's the thing: When no authority can be regarded as unimpeachable by both right and left, when no fact can be universally accepted as such, when anything you prefer not to believe is automatically dismissed as a product of "bias," you impoverish intellect and render informed debate impossible.

You may think Dwyane Wade is the best there is and I may prefer Kobe Bryant, but if we can't agree they both play a game called basketball, if you say it's basketball but my conservative dictionary tells me it's actually checkers, then we can't even have the debate; our assumptions are too fundamentally incompatible.

We live in different realities.

As in the recent spectacle of Americans shouting past each other like Martians and Venusians arguing in Farsi.

Conservapedia's effort to remake Jesus of Nazareth in the image of Dick Cheney suggests a future filled with more of the same.

A conservative Bible? Lord, have mercy.


I love Leonard Pitts Jr.

He was dead on too about that site. WTF America?
http://conservapedia.com/Liberal
http://conservapedia.com/Conservative

http://conservapedia.com/Main_Page


Conservapedia is composed of a half and half population of trolls and deranged fundamentalists. Combine the two and there is no limit to the amount of stupid shit you can produce.
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by Juan_Bottom »

I am just overly stupified at what I am seeing. Unbelievable. They are so in their own world that they are creating their own Bible for it. Their own God...
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by Burrito »

Juan_Bottom wrote:I am just overly stupified at what I am seeing. Unbelievable. They are so in their own world that they are creating their own Bible for it. Their own God...

I'm pretty sure that's what every religion with a holy text did... I mean, no religion even claims that their book came floating down from the sky on a golden cloud (that I know of :lol: )
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by Frigidus »

Burrito wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:I am just overly stupified at what I am seeing. Unbelievable. They are so in their own world that they are creating their own Bible for it. Their own God...

I'm pretty sure that's what every religion with a holy text did... I mean, no religion even claims that their book came floating down from the sky on a golden cloud (that I know of :lol: )


Not really, I'm pretty sure that all of the Abrahamic religions believe that their holy book is the word of God. Indeed, I imagine that many of those rewriting the Bible believe that they are divinely inspired.
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by Burrito »

Frigidus wrote:
Burrito wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:I am just overly stupified at what I am seeing. Unbelievable. They are so in their own world that they are creating their own Bible for it. Their own God...

I'm pretty sure that's what every religion with a holy text did... I mean, no religion even claims that their book came floating down from the sky on a golden cloud (that I know of :lol: )


Not really, I'm pretty sure that all of the Abrahamic religions believe that their holy book is the word of God. Indeed, I imagine that many of those rewriting the Bible believe that they are divinely inspired.


They might believe they are "divinely inspired", but it was still men who wrote it. The book didn't magically appear out of thin air. They may believe it to be the word of their god, but it was still men who wrote it. (and revised it, I.E. Constantinople)
On a side note, if I started spouting off about how I was hearing voices in my head, I would get thrown into the loony bin, not become a saint/prophet. :lol:
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by Frigidus »

Burrito wrote:On a side note, if I started spouting off about how I was hearing voices in my head, I would get thrown into the loony bin, not become a saint/prophet. :lol:


Indeed you would. It's so strange, the number of prophets and the number of crazy people seems to have an inverse relationship over time...
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by GabonX »

I agree, this is ridiculous.

The Bible is a living document.
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by Juan_Bottom »

Burrito wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:I am just overly stupified at what I am seeing. Unbelievable. They are so in their own world that they are creating their own Bible for it. Their own God...

I'm pretty sure that's what every religion with a holy text did... I mean, no religion even claims that their book came floating down from the sky on a golden cloud (that I know of :lol: )

Hey I'm an Atheist.
It's not that, it's who is creating the new Bible, and for what purpose. The man who owns and runs the website is doing it. Check out this snippite from his definition of "Conservative":
The sine qua non of a conservative is someone who rises above his personal self-interest and promotes moral and economic values beneficial to all. Alternatively, a conservative is willing to learn and advocate the insights of economics and the morality of the Bible for the benefit of all. Specifically, conservatives seek or support:

Yet he wants to edit out the parts that teach morality that he doesn't approve of, like the story of "Let he who is without sin."

Liberals are also far less likely than conservatives to strongly believe each of the following:

* their religious faith is very important in their life (54% of liberals vs. 82% of conservatives);
* a person cannot earn their way into Heaven by doing good deeds or being a good person (23% vs. 37%);
* their faith is becoming an increasingly important moral guide in their life (38% vs. 70%);
* the church they currently attend is very important in helping them find direction and fulfillment in life (37% vs. 62%);
* their primary purpose in life is to love God with all their heart, mind, strength and soul (43% vs. 76%);

political conservatives were more likely than liberals to:

* read the Bible, other than at church events, during the past week (57% vs. 33%, respectively)
* attend a religious service during the past week (62% vs. 35%)
* pray to God, other than at a religious service, during the past week (91% vs. 76%)
* share their religious beliefs with others, during the past year (56% vs. 39%, among the born again Christians interviewed from each segment)
* have ever participated in a short-term missions trip, either within the U.S. or in another country (12% vs. 6%)

* 2% of conservatives and 11% of liberals were atheist or agnostic
* 15% of conservatives and 2% of liberals were Christian evangelicals
* conservatives were twice as likely as liberals to be categorized as born again, based on their theological views about salvation (63% vs. 32%)
* 21% of conservatives were associated with the Catholic church, compared to 30% among the liberals.


And yet these are supposed to be the people that support his editing their Bible??? Because 15th century Monks were too Liberal? He talks about morality and returning to good old values. But he wants permission to destroy the very symbol he uses to rally people to his ideology. It's lunacy. WE NEED A RETURN TO MORALITY AND DECENCY! THE KIND OF MORALS FOUND IN THE GOOD BOOK! BUT FIRST, LET ME GET MY BLACK MARKER OUT!

Frigidus wrote:Indeed you would. It's so strange, the number of prophets and the number of crazy people seems to have an inverse relationship over time...

Look under Conservapedia's definition of "atheist." :shock: :roll: We are Murders with low IQ. And some of us, are clinically insane.

GabonX wrote:The Bible is a living document.
I agree, this is ridiculous.

The Bible is a living document.

Often when arguing with family about my being an atheist (13% of Illinois are conservative voters, and for some reason they all live here) I often bring up the additions as an argument that men are fallible, or whatever. Lately all I get back is "well I believe that if there is a message God wants us to get, it will be put in the Bible. Even if it didn't happen." As dumb as that is, I wonder what they would say to this story.
"Well if there is something God changed his mind about later...."
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by Hologram »

Burrito wrote:
Frigidus wrote:
Burrito wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:I am just overly stupified at what I am seeing. Unbelievable. They are so in their own world that they are creating their own Bible for it. Their own God...

I'm pretty sure that's what every religion with a holy text did... I mean, no religion even claims that their book came floating down from the sky on a golden cloud (that I know of :lol: )


Not really, I'm pretty sure that all of the Abrahamic religions believe that their holy book is the word of God. Indeed, I imagine that many of those rewriting the Bible believe that they are divinely inspired.


They might believe they are "divinely inspired", but it was still men who wrote it. The book didn't magically appear out of thin air. They may believe it to be the word of their god, but it was still men who wrote it. (and revised it, I.E. Constantinople)
On a side note, if I started spouting off about how I was hearing voices in my head, I would get thrown into the loony bin, not become a saint/prophet. :lol:

Well, the Mormons claim the Book of Mormon essentially appeared out of thin air. Of course, it was translated and seen by only one man, but who's judging?
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by HapSmo19 »

Bible aside, they nailed this:

Juan_Bottom wrote: liberal: "someone who rejects logical and biblical standards, often for self-centered reasons. There are no coherent liberal standards; often a liberal is merely someone who craves attention, and who uses many words to say nothing."
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by Juan_Bottom »

Logic and the Bible are two words that don't mix well. As we have demonstrated over and over again in these very forums.

Also,
Specifically, conservatives seek or support:

* Classroom prayer
* Prohibition of abortion
* Traditional marriage, not same-sex marriage
* Respect for differences between men and women, boys and girls
* Laws against pornography
* The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms
* Economic allocative efficiency (as opposed to popular equity)
* The death penalty
* Parental control of education
* Private medical care and retirement plans
* Canceling failed social support programs
* No world government
* Enforcement of current laws regarding immigration
* Respect for our military ... past and present
* Rejection of junk science such as evolutionism and global warming
* Low taxes, especially for families
* Federalism (less power for the federal government and more for local and state governments)
* A strong national defense


Everything on that list is there because of self-centered reasons. Except the one in bold. This site is run by hypocritic loons, and hopefully as Frigidus pointed out, trolls.
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by HapSmo19 »

Juan_Bottom wrote:Logic and the Bible are two words that don't mix well. As we have demonstrated over and over again in these very forums.

Also,
Specifically, conservatives seek or support:

* Classroom prayer
* Prohibition of abortion
* Traditional marriage, not same-sex marriage
* Respect for differences between men and women, boys and girls
* Laws against pornography
* The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms
* Economic allocative efficiency (as opposed to popular equity)
* The death penalty
* Parental control of education
* Private medical care and retirement plans
* Canceling failed social support programs
* No world government
* Enforcement of current laws regarding immigration
* Respect for our military ... past and present
* Rejection of junk science such as evolutionism and global warming
* Low taxes, especially for families
* Federalism (less power for the federal government and more for local and state governments)
* A strong national defense


Everything on that list is there because of self-centered reasons. Except the one in bold.


:-s
Please go through them for me, one by one, and tell me how they are self-centered.

This should be good.
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by Phatscotty »

You may judge Conservapedia's own bias by reading its definition of liberal: "someone who rejects logical and biblical standards, often for self-centered reasons. There are no coherent liberal standards; often a liberal is merely someone who craves attention, and who uses many words to say nothing."


um, isnt that just one idiot that put that in there?
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by got tonkaed »

Phatscotty wrote:
You may judge Conservapedia's own bias by reading its definition of liberal: "someone who rejects logical and biblical standards, often for self-centered reasons. There are no coherent liberal standards; often a liberal is merely someone who craves attention, and who uses many words to say nothing."


um, isnt that just one idiot that put that in there?


If it was corrected in fairly short order then yes it would merely be the perspective of one person. If the community allowed it to remain relatively unchallenged, it is reasonable to claim it reflects the viewpoint of the group at large.
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by Frigidus »

Phatscotty wrote:
You may judge Conservapedia's own bias by reading its definition of liberal: "someone who rejects logical and biblical standards, often for self-centered reasons. There are no coherent liberal standards; often a liberal is merely someone who craves attention, and who uses many words to say nothing."


um, isnt that just one idiot that put that in there?


Yeah, and not one of their contributors removed it.
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by Juan_Bottom »

HapSmo19 wrote:Please go through them for me, one by one, and tell me how they are self-centered.

This should be good.


HapSmo19 wrote:* Classroom prayer

What about atheists?

HapSmo19 wrote:Prohibition of abortion

In countries where abortions is illegal, the number of abortions doesn't go down. Just the safety of it. And can you tell someone who was raped by her father that she has to carry the baby to term? What right do you have to do that?

HapSmo19 wrote:* Traditional marriage, not same-sex marriage
This should be obvious, but you are denying rights to another human that you yourself enjoy. In most cases it's because of your religion. As opposed to theirs...

HapSmo19 wrote:* Respect for differences between men and women, boys and girls

I'm not sure what this means exactly, but if it is telling people how to dress or speak to one another, then it is obviously denying freedom of speech and expression. Because you don't like it.

HapSmo19 wrote:Laws against pornography

Cases of rape have gone down 80% since the widespread distribution of porn. and again, you are denying someone a lifestyle because you don't approve.

HapSmo19 wrote:* The Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms

Selfishness, is obvious. You want your guns, no matter what.

HapSmo19 wrote:* Economic allocative efficiency (as opposed to popular equity)

:roll:

HapSmo19 wrote:The death penalty

On average in the US it costs 1 million dollars just to execute someone. You get your revenge, but at great expense to the taxpayer. The money could be better spent.

HapSmo19 wrote:* Parental control of education

Obvious selfishness. I realize though that everyone wants what is best for their kids. So it's understandable.

HapSmo19 wrote:* Private medical care and retirement plans

We've been debating this for years. You lose your ability to barter as your members get fewer. But for those with money, they do alright. You are getting a good deal, but others suffer.

HapSmo19 wrote:* Canceling failed social support programs

Again, at the expense of others. Social Support exists for a reason, rather than cancel programs, they should be replaced. Or repaired.

HapSmo19 wrote:* No world government

No UN???

HapSmo19 wrote:* Enforcement of current laws regarding immigration

This creates bias for all immigrants and rips families apart. Also as Player has pointed out, some industries need the immigrants, which is why the law enforcement is lax. Defending your borders is another matter.

HapSmo19 wrote:* Respect for our military ... past and present

Arguably this is a selfish demand too. You can't force people to respect each other.

HapSmo19 wrote:* Rejection of junk science such as evolutionism and global warming

Reject facts? Because the Bible tells us the planet is 3000 years old. It's selfish to force other people to close their minds to other beliefs because of your ideology.

HapSmo19 wrote:* Low taxes, especially for families

Do you need an explanation for that?

HapSmo19 wrote:* Federalism (less power for the federal government and more for local and state governments)

Civil War?
Can you imagine what the South would be like if the Federal Government did not force equal rights in the 60s? SOOOO selfish of them.

HapSmo19 wrote:* A strong national defense

More like offense, amirite?

Basically overall, the theme here is that you don't have the right to tell people how to live. Any ideology is self-centered, and if it isn't, then it's not an ideology.That's beyond self-centered.
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by Phatscotty »

got tonkaed wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
You may judge Conservapedia's own bias by reading its definition of liberal: "someone who rejects logical and biblical standards, often for self-centered reasons. There are no coherent liberal standards; often a liberal is merely someone who craves attention, and who uses many words to say nothing."


um, isnt that just one idiot that put that in there?


If it was corrected in fairly short order then yes it would merely be the perspective of one person. If the community allowed it to remain relatively unchallenged, it is reasonable to claim it reflects the viewpoint of the group at large.

right, well this is the first time Ive heard about this. I do remember the crazy stuff on wikki's early days also.
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by got tonkaed »

considering any open source encyclopedia will always be open to some abuse in this regard it is not surprising that such things would get posted. Nor do i think anyone really expects a 2-3 min turnover given a smaller community size than wikipedia in general. It also seems releveant to point out that the issue here does not seem like some irrelevant page that could have been overlooked by massive numbers of people. Perhaps some of these things will be ironed out in time, but given the open bias the group has, I wouldnt be surprised if it wasnt.
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by PLAYER57832 »

got tonkaed wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:
You may judge Conservapedia's own bias by reading its definition of liberal: "someone who rejects logical and biblical standards, often for self-centered reasons. There are no coherent liberal standards; often a liberal is merely someone who craves attention, and who uses many words to say nothing."


um, isnt that just one idiot that put that in there?


If it was corrected in fairly short order then yes it would merely be the perspective of one person. If the community allowed it to remain relatively unchallenged, it is reasonable to claim it reflects the viewpoint of the group at large.


Not sure who you mean by 'the community", but 1 person can make a "viable community" on the internet. Anyone with an address can post whatever they want without any check except those who look or don't look. (barring a very few truly illegal postings).

This is why we need standards .. not censorship, but a kind of 'rating" or such, based on truth/credibility rather than just the number of "hits". Stuff like this will always get more "hits" than many decent sites, because it is "fun" (or fun to make fun of).
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by got tonkaed »

the community in this scenario would be the open source group as a hive. Yes one person can change any material, barring certain restrictions, different sites have different ones, but in general the editing process is not done by one person, rather by large numbers of one persons.

I dislike the rating system you propose on principle.
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Re: Conservapedia II Norse by Norsewest (New Conservative Bible)

Post by Snorri1234 »

Yeah the community here is the nutjobs who are on wikipedia. Quite a large group actually. (At least; not just some nutjob and his close friends.)
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