Japan - 日本 - Quenched

[Industrial Helix]

Yeah, I see... stick with the previous version.

[the.killing.44]

I appreciate you've gotten this far, but there area multitude of graphic issues that, IMO, just don't make the map CC-worthy, yet. The map clashes with itself, having a somewhat brush-like font and calligraphy on the sides while you have "modernized" the text, theme, and overall feel. To get into specifics…

The clean, beveled, crisp look of the land is okay. However, why do you have these tire treads of characters in the background? It's just distracting to the eye; you can't really see what they are, so you look closer, distracting you from the other aspects of it. I see RJ suggested the same thing, to no avail. I advise you rethink your response to criticisms by him…

The lines are just horrendous. What are the little white dots doing there? Ach.

The mountains look like they belong in a '90's video game. Pixellated, uniform, etc. Use your brush tool, not the pencil or some image you found, etc.

The army circles are these rounded squares. What? Pixellated edges = yikes.

The font is just ugly, blocky, "modern" while trying to look old-style—which is basically my thought on the entire map. I'm suggesting you change the whole theme of the map, but if you're unwilling to do that, just find something that doesn't look like it's trying to mimic the calligraphy found by your title.

So, yes, clashing is the best adjective I can think of to describe the map. It would be a huge plus to go to your file, decide if you want to make it look like the modern, technology-oriented Japan famous today, or an ancient calligraphic one. You've made it this far, which means you obviously don't have to, but I can't really say that, in its current form, it compares with the other recent additions to CC, graphics-wise. If you're not willing to go back and redesign the whole map, at least look into changing the lines, tire treads, and circles.

Love your sig and plane, by the way.

[RedBaron0]

I really will try and implement these suggestions 44. Just one thing I want to say about Japan itself. Japan is a country that just clashes. Ultra modern, yet deeply traditional and culturally conservative. I realize I'm kinda caught in between, but that's pretty much where Japan is, and probably why it has been so difficult to get a map of Japan into CC thus far.

[Industrial Helix]

I disagree with most of the above.

I see you're point on the mountains, as they're a tad rough... but I think it fits in with the font style and the three toned continent areas. If any change should be made to the mountains, lose the snow cap. It could go either way in my opinion.

The army circles are in fact pixelated now that you point it out. I say keep the squared circle, just figure out how to make them not pixelated, try adding a a glow or something (there I go again with the glow).

But yeah. I like the compass, I like the mesh of old and new. I like the lines with the white dots. The calligraphy next to Japan is a keeper.

[ender516]

Click image to enlarge.

I dunno if I like that. I've tried it with Asahikawa, compare it to the nearby territories. It's 4 pixels bigger instead of 2.

Asahikawa is too much. The others are fine.

[RjBeals]

I really will try and implement these suggestions 44. Just one thing I want to say about Japan itself. Japan is a country that just clashes. Ultra modern, yet deeply traditional and culturally conservative. I realize I'm kinda caught in between, but that's pretty much where Japan is, and probably why it has been so difficult to get a map of Japan into CC thus far.

Sure Japan clashes, but that doesn't mean the map has to also. Here's something I quickly threw together during lunch. I think it feels like japan simply with the colors and the font. Plus I titled the map even more to give more board space, less ocean space. also added korea to give some spacial reference, which leaves a nice little opening between for a legend.

I don't expect you to mimic this map. It's just trying to illustrate a point about the theme.

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

If any change should be made to the mountains, lose the snow cap.

I concur. I think I said this earlier, but the mountains really would look better without the snow. The contrast between the bright white snow and dark grey mountain is just too big for comfort.

[MrBenn]

I think the map looks easier on the eye with your latest update, but it still feels like it's not quite got that je nais cest quoi.

I'm not fully convinced by the shadow effect on the land - I think I'd rather see a subtle dark outer glow around the whole thing... Either that, or you need to add a shadow onto your ocean paths too.

Part of me thinks that the map has got to the stage where it's beginning to stagnate; I'm in two minds about it - on the one hand, the map works, is legible and clear - on the other hand, I'm still not sure it captures the essence of Japan...

Here are the more advanced drafts of Japan that ended up in the recycling bin - each of these, while far from perfect, feels like it's captured something, or has a specific theme to it... the images for the version that made it the furthest are no longer available

Spoiler

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28733

Spoiler

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=30861

Spoiler

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.phpt=75611

[the.killing.44]

RJ's map is orgasm-worthy, and if you'd go off that I'd say quench-quench-quench. I don't really like the ones Benn posted. So here are my two off of which I think you should model yours:

Spoiler

Click image to enlarge.

Spoiler

Click image to enlarge.

[MrBenn]

Spoiler

Click image to enlarge.

Spoiler

Click image to enlarge.

I couldn't find oaktown's version... ... and didn't want to duplicate RjBeals' example

[RedBaron0]

Alright, I hear and obey. And I agree, I see this map in it current form is easily playable, but is missing something. So a move to something different is needed for larger appeal to the community. I will make some changes and give a new update, something in tune with the recent conversations. (I hope)

[AndyDufresne]

Alright, I hear and obey. And I agree, I see this map in it current form is easily playable, but is missing something. So a move to something different is needed for larger appeal to the community. I will make some changes and give a new update, something in tune with the recent conversations. (I hope)

Look forward to this. Good luck.


--Andy

[ender516]

Wow, this is disturbing. This map has been under development for a good long while. Nearly every Japanese element on it has been objected to and removed (dragons, unusual wave pattern, the gate in the water, Mount Fuji, the parchment, ...) and yet now the objection is that the map does not capture Japan ?!?!? Why is a map on dirty graph paper so exciting? Is it not a map of Japan if it has no sword on it? You're a stronger person than I, RedBaron0, if you can start over from here. Good luck, nevertheless, and I intend to keep following this map regardless.

[MrBenn]

Wow, this is disturbing. This map has been under development for a good long while....

This is not uncommon during the foundry process - as lots of people who have been through the process already can attest. Once the heat of the foundry furnace is turned up, the ultimate goal/hope is that from the midst of the glowing embers, something fantastic can emerge...

[Industrial Helix]

Wow, this is disturbing...

Agreed. This is something that should have been decided back at draft stage. If nobody was willing to accept a non-feudal Japan map than this is something that needed to be established long ago. Anyway, good luck Red, I look forward to seeing what you produce.

[RedBaron0]

It's won't be feudal.... just an older look. The elements will merge as best as I can produce. I won't copy what has been presented, but look to create something with a similar feel. If it screams Japan, the we're off and running, if not, there's a backup...

When you get down to it this is a background change, sea connection, mountains change, land color change and a bit of repositioning. Not amazingly complex, but will likely be something totally different looking. I think I'll likely have the most trouble with the mountains.

[MrBenn]

Wow, this is disturbing...

Agreed. This is something that should have been decided back at draft stage. If nobody was willing to accept a non-feudal Japan map than this is something that needed to be established long ago. Anyway, good luck Red, I look forward to seeing what you produce.

There are several issues with the current drafting process that will be addressed in due course - although this map thread is not really the proper place to discuss it...

When you get down to it this is a background change, sea connection, mountains change, land color change and a bit of repositioning. Not amazingly complex, but will likely be something totally different looking. I think I'll likely have the most trouble with the mountains.

Mountains seem to cause the most people the most trouble

[Raskholnikov]

Hi,

I know this will take you some way away from a pure Japan map - But why not focus on the Sea of Japan instread and build a game-play around it - a bit like the Mediterranean is really the focus of the Imperium Romanum game?

So instead of only Japan, include Korea, Manchuria and Sakhalin - Amur region, a bit like in the Map below. Balance it with some key city bonuses, some fleets, even some temples - plenty in Japan, Korea and Manchuria. If you dont like this idea, just divide it in Zones with bonuses: North and South Japan, North and South Korea, North and South Manchuria, Russia, China (with super-bonuses for all of Japan, Korea, Mnachuria ) whatever you like best to make an fun gameplay.

The main thing is to establish a circulation around the Sea of Japan and a bonus structure that takes advantage of the geography. It doesnt need to represent a particular moment in Japan's history like WWII or the Korean War. Leave it slightly more abstract and let the play dominate. Something like Masters of the Sea of Japan - russians, koreans, japanese, chinese, manchrians - for centuries have competed over mastery of the sea of japan. etc etc theres a good storyline here i think.



Anyway just a thought. Good luck!!

[RjBeals]

focus on japan. You've already got gameplay nailed. The sea of japan could be a different map.

[Industrial Helix]

focus on japan. You've already got gameplay nailed. The sea of japan could be a different map.

Yeah.

Plus I pitched this long ago or something similar and it kind of got shut down. I'd rather have a Japan map before a Sea of Japan map, as cool as it would be.

[RedBaron0]

That's all you Rask.

[Raskholnikov]

Hey it was just a thought - you said you wanted to revamp it.

Good luck with whatever works for you

[RedBaron0]

Click image to enlarge.

Here's what I've got so far. I know I'm missing a few things still. In particular some sort of color code for the bonuses. I figure I could color the inner edges of the territories, but that might be too much. I could also color along the edge of the the army circles. It is also an option to recolor the land very subtlety. At this point as I think about I've probably drained too much color out of the map and will have to add it back in some way.

[Evil DIMwit]

That's waaay, too grim; way too dull. It reminds me of Okami at the start of the game.

[porkenbeans]

I sort of like the subtle color tones going on here. Maybe you could bring in some color with the names, or in the glow around them ?

PS. I like the mountains, but the green on them is not working.

PSS. With this beige tone, the army numbers should have no problem showing up clearly. So, you can probably decrease the opacity of, or eliminate, the circles.