Tournament Creation Limits? [Poll Added By NS]

[barterer2002]

could we do subforums for the create join? That could be interesting. I'd see 4 IMO

1v1 tournaments
Singles (not 1v1)
Teams
Other

The tags would be very nice but having waited for 2+ years on them I'm doubtful that they'll be coming anytime soon.

I'm not sure how easy it would be to create some subforums but it seems easy from one who doesn't have to do it.

[cowboyz]

As a tournament player, I have found myself shying away from the create/join forum because of this. I find it annoying having to pick my way through dozens of boring tournaments that are all looking for players made by the same organizers to try to find some good ones.

Please lock this topic, this is a pointless thread. Complaining because we have soooo many people willing to dedicate their time to make tournaments for the enjoyment of others is just a way to vent when one is having their period. How bout a few midol and nice glass of cranberry juice instead?

Thank you HA, b00060, barterer2002, Lindax and all the other tourney creators. Bones if you want a better tournament, stfu and MAKE ONE. End.

[Gozar]

could we do subforums for the create join? That could be interesting. I'd see 4 IMO

The tags would be very nice but having waited for 2+ years on them I'm doubtful that they'll be coming anytime soon.

Even just putting it in the thread title:

Gozar's Sample Tournament (9/500) (2v2)

[Night Strike]

Thread tags were never mandated because of concerns about specificity and a limited number of characters in the title. They've been encouraged in the Tournament Handbook.

[Captain_Scarlet]

As a tournament player, I have found myself shying away from the create/join forum because of this. I find it annoying having to pick my way through dozens of boring tournaments that are all looking for players made by the same organizers to try to find some good ones.

Please lock this topic, this is a pointless thread. Complaining because we have soooo many people willing to dedicate their time to make tournaments for the enjoyment of others is just a way to vent when one is having their period. How bout a few midol and nice glass of cranberry juice instead?

Thank you HA, b00060, barterer2002, Lindax and all the other tourney creators. Bones if you want a better tournament, stfu and MAKE ONE. End.

[mgconstruction]

I think sub forums are a much better idea than Tags. The reason being is the space amount in the title will limit the creativity of naming a tournament. I barely get the name of the winner in it now as is

[Dako]

I already posted (was the first one btw?) that subforums would be a good idea:
1v1
team or mixed

Looks like 2 categories will be enough. Maybe 3rd one for mixed and league/complicated format.

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

simple response

1) host the tourney you would to see
2) dont join the tournies you dont want to see

same as joining/creating games

1) join the games you like
2) dont join the games you dont like

I agree with you. I tried to play 1v1 random tourney, didn't like it and gave up on them. But it is hard to find the ones I like when I have 60 threads to look through.

Maybe I will grow up some day and host my own tournament. But for now I will talk as a consumer only .

1) it takes time for the thread to disappear after it is moved from the join forum to the ongoing forum. perhaps if it was removed completely once it is moved that would eliminate some of the threads

2) sometimes it takes days for tourney organizers to grant priv. to the host to get the tourney started. perhaps if this was completed in a more timely manner the threads would be removed quicker.

3) threads are left open for a long period of time and never started. perhaps there should be a cap on how long they are permitted to remain on the forum idle.

just some solutions to cut back on the total amount threads

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

As a tournament player, I have found myself shying away from the create/join forum because of this. I find it annoying having to pick my way through dozens of boring tournaments that are all looking for players made by the same organizers to try to find some good ones.

what you find boring is entertaining to 90% of the site. I create tournies and have them filled up within a day. So obviously players want to play them.

what should we all do ? Create a tourney to last 6 months ? So a host should take a chance that the entire line up that signed up will remain active and complete 100% of their turns over a large span of time ?

I would rather please a large majority of players than to change everything around because 1 player disagrees with not finding a tourney to play in.

[HighlanderAttack]

Maybe you need to check out my tourneys I have ran: I've edited to show the franchise frequency of all, and ordered in number of times

HA's Don't Blink * 37
Around All CC's Maps * 22
HA's Random 1v1 Major+ * 6
HA's Round Robin Series * 5
HA'S MANUAL CLASSIC * 3 (One was "Big")
HA's Classic Dubs Major * 3
HA's Arms Race Addiction * 2
HA's Easter Tourney * 2
HA's Tax Day Tourney * 2
Ha's-4-3-2-1 * 2
HA's Foggy/Sunny * 2
HA's Random 1v1 Triples * 2
CC DYNASTY LEAGUE SEASON 1
HA's Saint Patricks Day Tourney
HA's April Fools Day Tourney
HA's Memorial Day Tourney
Ha's Cinco de Mayo
HA's Arms Race B-Day
HA's Labor Day Tourney
In Memory of 911
HA's Columbus Day Tourney
HA's Halloween Horror
HA's P-I-G-ONE
HA's Veterans Day Tourney
HA's Thanksgiving Day Tourney
HA's Happy New Year Tourney
HA's Christmas Gifts
HA's Classic Dubs-ONE
HA's 105th Tourney
HA's Nuclear Random just win one

So you actually only have 30 different tournament ideas/executions.

I'm guessing some events like the "XXX" day will be the same, now I'm not making a personal attack here but it seems that all of these tournaments are the same thing. Looking at some of these tournaments they seem to be either:

A League
A Bracket
Or A Round Robin

I haven't looked at them all but of the ones I have done that is all I can see.

and all the players complaining - I have one thing to say - in my opinion, before you have the right to even complain in this thread, get off your arse and create and run a tournament - and until then you have absolutely no idea of the effort required

Most of the people complaining are organizers! Much of the problem isn't the fact the tournaments exist is the fact the forum seems to be flooded with them.

I think dividing tournaments into 2 subforums is the best solution. Easy to navigate and easy to fill with more tournaments. Cause right now there are 3 players that do tournaments, and what will happen when there will be 10 people? Still the same problem with the flood and no limits will save them. Limits are not the solution - just a temporary choice. We need something more in-depth and we need the opinion of everyone interested here.

I agree a separation may be the way to go. Either into style of tournament -- Bracket/League etc. or into the complexity. Or if there is a theme. Franchise is another way. Anyway I'll think about it.

Yes-I would say you need to go into all my tourneys to see the different formats and the amount of creativity I have put into my tourneys. So what if I have multiple tourneys with the same concept. I have spent 100's of hours running these and I make every effort to include everyone in them including freemiums. I also could solicit my small tourneys and have them filled in 10 minutes but I don't do that so others have a chance to get into them. A lot of you don't have a clue how much time and effort are put into these tourneys and the system involved:

I create a lot at the same time
Then fill the player lists out
Then I ask for the privileges to run them
Then I make the game for each tourney
Then I do all the invites
Then I check the results
Then I send the next rounds out

You may get a picture of why I do post so many tourneys at once. It is part of the system that makes them run so smoothly. If I had to do all these things one or two at a time and do it over and over again it would slow the entire process down. I am about efficiency.

I can ramble on and on about so many of the things that have been said in this thread to day, but I know it would be a waste of time. Some of you will have your thoughts and really never have a clue what it takes to run a tourney let alone the amount of time and dedication put into it weather it is simpler or extensive.

I know I have a ton of players that love my tourneys and appreciate my efforts. For them I will continue to post and run tourneys. For some of you, I must say join the tourneys you want to and don't be so damn lazy about sifting through 1.5 to 2.5 pages of tourneys.

[Bones2484]

Deleted, denom covered it better in two posts

[Gozar]

I don't see this thread so much as an attack on running multiple tournaments at the same time as much as it is frustration over how the create/join forum is organised.

No one need defend their tournaments, and I don't think anyone is going to try and change how tournaments are created.

[denominator]

Yes-I would say you need to go into all my tourneys to see the different formats and the amount of creativity I have put into my tourneys. So what if I have multiple tourneys with the same concept. I have spent 100's of hours running these and I make every effort to include everyone in them including freemiums. I also could solicit my small tourneys and have them filled in 10 minutes but I don't do that so others have a chance to get into them. A lot of you don't have a clue how much time and effort are put into these tourneys and the system involved:

I create a lot at the same time
Then fill the player lists out
Then I ask for the privileges to run them
Then I make the game for each tourney
Then I do all the invites
Then I check the results
Then I send the next rounds out

You may get a picture of why I do post so many tourneys at once. It is part of the system that makes them run so smoothly. If I had to do all these things one or two at a time and do it over and over again it would slow the entire process down. I am about efficiency.

I can ramble on and on about so many of the things that have been said in this thread to day, but I know it would be a waste of time. Some of you will have your thoughts and really never have a clue what it takes to run a tourney let alone the amount of time and dedication put into it weather it is simpler or extensive.

I know I have a ton of players that love my tourneys and appreciate my efforts. For them I will continue to post and run tourneys. For some of you, I must say join the tourneys you want to and don't be so damn lazy about sifting through 1.5 to 2.5 pages of tourneys.

Don't take this the wrong way, HA, because I do honestly enjoy the majority of your tournaments.

Your "Don't Blink" series is essentially on massive tournament broken up into 140ish little pieces. Each one has the exact same rules and the exact same settings and the exact same number of people involved. So why not do something along the lines of having 1 tournament that incorporates all of those mini pieces into one? Have 500+ people sign up for one giant tourney rather than 500+ people sign up for 140 smaller ones?

I enjoy playing in your holiday themed tourneys because they have a theme. Each of them has a little catch that makes it more interesting than just playing 1v1s over and over again. So I say kudos to those, and keep bringing those out.

I see your point about moving the system along quicker by releasing a "batch" of tournaments at a time, but it really does clog the system for everyone else trying to run tournaments at the same time. I was checking through your tournaments, and came across one of my favourites run by you, the CC Dynasty League Season 1. I find that far more interesting than all these quick tournaments. However, there hasn't been an active game in that tourney since April 2009, and I found this quote from August 2009:

Numerous things have delayed me in finishing some of my tournies including laziness. I am going to have games out on all 7 of my remaining tournies by this Monday night.

Sorry for any inconvenience and thanks for the patience.

I will only run three tourneys at a time from now on once all of these are caught up.

I did find the spreadsheet for this so I can continue.

I would much rather see your organizing talents working towards rescuing this tournament than spamming new ones.

That being said, this thread has run it's course. It's no longer on the topic (I do realize my post is included in the off-topic posts), and has become a flame war over whether HA and b6 are good organizers.

[Night Strike]

1) it takes time for the thread to disappear after it is moved from the join forum to the ongoing forum. perhaps if it was removed completely once it is moved that would eliminate some of the threads

2) sometimes it takes days for tourney organizers to grant priv. to the host to get the tourney started. perhaps if this was completed in a more timely manner the threads would be removed quicker.

3) threads are left open for a long period of time and never started. perhaps there should be a cap on how long they are permitted to remain on the forum idle.

just some solutions to cut back on the total amount threads

1) Shadows are left in place so organizers and players can still find the tournament for a couple days after the privileges are granted. They should disappear less than 72 hours after moving the thread.....often times much less.

2) All privileges should be granted in less than 24 hours. Most of the time it's within a couple hours. If you're having issues with a Director taking more than 24 hours on a frequent basis, please PM me.

3) Tournaments that do not start within 30 days are canceled and moved to the abandoned forum. The time frame won't be cut any less than that.

[Bones2484]

I was checking through your tournaments, and came across one of my favourites run by you, the CC Dynasty League Season 1. I find that far more interesting than all these quick tournaments. However, there hasn't been an active game in that tourney since April 2009, and I found this quote from August 2009:

Numerous things have delayed me in finishing some of my tournies including laziness. I am going to have games out on all 7 of my remaining tournies by this Monday night.

Sorry for any inconvenience and thanks for the patience.

I will only run three tourneys at a time from now on once all of these are caught up.

I did find the spreadsheet for this so I can continue.

I would much rather see your organizing talents working towards rescuing this tournament than spamming new ones.

That being said, this thread has run it's course. It's no longer on the topic (I do realize my post is included in the off-topic posts), and has become a flame war over whether HA and b6 are good organizers.

This is now the second example of this in the thread and leads me to another question: should TO's create new tournaments when others are currently stalled at fault of the TO?

Judging by the countless who have responded with "as long as tournaments are being updated, who cares how many are made?", I'd say the answer is a resounding "no".

[HighlanderAttack]

More miss-understandings and attacks on me-lmao at this point.

Dynasty probably should be canceled because all the work I did on it is on one spreadsheet on a thumbdrive which was miss-placed when I moved. I keep it alive because I want to finish it if the people in it want to but without all the work on that spreadsheet I cannot. i guess I will just cancel it so it cannot be held against me while I so-called spam so many small Don't Blink tourneys.

The Don't Blink Tourneys are a series with the basic same settings in each map. Those were made for simplicity and for freemiums. They are quick and fun for the players that love them.

I am tired of being attacked and all I have to say is don't join my tourneys if you don't want to. I don't get why they bother some of you so much.

Here is something you can do:

Open up the create/join a tourney, scroll down and just don't bother to open the HA and b00060 posts. If there is more than 15 of them in the entire 75 posted tourneys that saves you 20% of your time to look at new tourneys. It really is not that hard. I will continue to post and run my tourneys for the players that enjoy them and I hope the players that don't appreciate the HA's, and b's of the world just stay out of our tourneys.

[Bones2484]

I'm not trying to attack you. I've been asking questions for people to answer however they want. Like I told b0 I didn't want to include names because that's not the point of the discussion. The point of the discussion is to see if we, as a tournament community, can come up with some improvements to the entire process as a whole. There is no intention of "punishing" any member of the community. This is an open discussion, and not a hate thread.

You only became a "focal point" because you took it on yourself to send a message to all of your tournament players to invite them to get involved. This disappointingly derailed the thread and opened it up to flames and trolls on all sides.

And when I see your groupies coming in here to tell me off, calling me names, and saying "HA can start however many he wants as long as they are being updated"... and then I find proof that a few are not being updated in months? I'd fully expect each one of those trolls to change their minds on this matter else they be considered hypocrites.

[Bones2484]

I think this has run it's course. I'll set up two new threads to focus the discussion better. Feel free to lock 'er up to prevent additional flaming.

[mgconstruction]

Wow, this thing took a hard right turn down Flaming Lane. What a shame.

If we could all just quit posting anything about any tourney or TO in particular & just discuss the matters at hand WITHOUT using anyone's tourneys as examples we may actually come out of this with a better system.

I don't see what is so hard to understand about the situation. Some people don't like to have to scroll through 3 pages of tourneys to find one. Fine, point taken.

We as TO's don't feel we should have any limits on the amount we make. Because the people who join our tourney's tend to enjoy them and I will note, we do however have a minimum tournament structure to meet from the Tournament handbook.

You will need to keep in mind several minimum requirements that must be observed in order for your tournament to be considered a public tournament.

1. You must have at least 16 total players.
2. The tournament must feature at least 5 games.
3. At least 50% of the spots available must be for open/public sign-ups, and not filled with special invitations. (Tournament Directors will be conducting random checks on occasion to ensure this criteria is being met.)
4. The first post must be organized and state such things as game settings, maps, number of games, etc.

If a tournament meets these requirements NOT one person has a valid complaint. I don't care if the Tourney has a Mole digging a Hole, You shouldn't Blink your eyeballs or run for the hills because your Vagina's on fire. If it meets these requirements than it is a VALID tourney and any complaint about the structure has no merit until these rules are changed. So any discussion here about tourney's being too short or what not is a mute point.

Lets put all the personal bullshit aside here people. We as TO's like running Tourneys and have been praised for the success the tourney part of CC has become. You as players like joining them but would like an easier way of sorting through them.

Here's an Idea, How about someone that has a problem with the current system make a thread in SUGGESTIONS & BUGS where something will actually have a chance to be done about this. Maybe suggest creating sub forums for Create/join tournaments to presort tourneys as their made.

Just a thought,
MG

[MudPuppy]

I fully support and greatly appreciate any CC member who takes the time to set up and run the tournaments that help make this site so great. Members should have free rein to set up tournaments as long as they continue to meet two simple requirements (in addition to the mandated minimum tourney requirements):

• They can fill them in a timely manner; and
• They run them well.

Clearly HA & B00060 offer tournaments that are of interest to players. I have yet to have a bad experience as a participant in any of their tournaments as they are quite well run. There are few things more frustrating than participating in a tournament led by an organizer who does not have their act together. Placing mandated limits on quality organizers will only be a disservice to the players who enjoy their tournaments.

I do think there is a place for limits on organizers with little experience who may be tempted to bite off more than they can chew. Probationary periods should be in place for these newer organizers. Restrictions are also appropriate for organizers who create excessive numbers of tournaments that don't get filled quickly or aren't run well.

I appreciate the innovative tournaments that our more creative organizers come up with and find it difficult to see how these mass tournament postings interfere with those great tournaments. I've also seen little evidence that new organizers haven't been able to get their foot in the door because of the activity of these veteran organizers. I believe tournament players are generally quite supportive of new organizers and are more than willing to give them a chance as long as they appear to have their act together and do a decent job presenting their first tournament.

Keep the tourneys coming: simple brackets, complex leagues, and innovative experimental tourneys... they're all good and should all be encouraged.

[Captain_Scarlet]

This is now the second example of this in the thread and leads me to another question: should TO's create new tournaments when others are currently stalled at fault of the TO?

Judging by the countless who have responded with "as long as tournaments are being updated, who cares how many are made?", I'd say the answer is a resounding "no".

seriously you are quick to question what you deem right and wrong but how many tournaments have you run?

(to save you a search I have only run one to date)

[Jippd]

I like HA's tournies and play a lot of them as well as any other ones I find that I happen to like. Most are 1 v 1, and I personally like the quick and easy tournies. I don't understand tournies that have lots of rules or take a long time, nor do I want to play those type.

As long as a tournie is being run properly and in a time efficient manor what is the problem?

As long as the tournies are different styles who cares how many are being created? If it was the same map same player number same rules...okay then maybe it is a problem. But different maps different rules different players...whatever those are different tournies.

If the problem is that there are too many thread pages of ongoing tournies...is CC really pissed that their site is growing. Hello and welcome to EXPANDING THE FORUM. Seperate tournies into say 1 v 1 ... free for all.... doubles/trips/quads .... team games .... long tournies .... quick tournies.... tournies by number of players, HOWEVER YOU WANT. This will make searching for tournaments easier, and people can still create whatever ones they want.

If you are going to limit people from creating tournaments, then why should you not limit people from creating games? What is the difference. Why could someone create say 1000000000 games for people to join but someone cannot run a lot of tournaments if they want?

[Night Strike]

Here's an Idea, How about someone that has a problem with the current system make a thread in SUGGESTIONS & BUGS where something will actually have a chance to be done about this. Maybe suggest creating sub forums for Create/join tournaments to presort tourneys as their made.

Actually, this forum IS the best place for this kind of topic. The thread was started with a person's concern, which is one of the uses of this forum, and it has evolved to include a discussion of either new policies or new forum/thread structures. Anything that has to do with the Tournament Handbook (which contains all of the tournament policies) or the forum structure DO belong here because they are not site-wide issues. The Sugs/Bugs forum is for site-issues, whereas this forum is for dealing with tournament policies/layout or general conversation about tournaments. I guarantee you posting about a tournament issue in this forum will get it noticed by people who can do something about it (namely me and the other TDs) far faster than posting it in Sugs/Bugs. Same goes with the C&A forum as well: tournament complaints that don't break site rules (like secret diplomacy) should be dealt with in the tournament forums by a Tournament Director, not a C&A mod.

[elfish_lad]

Well, this whole thing is a disappointment to me. I'm a new guy to tournament life. I think Bex and I joined one of JR24's dubs awhile back and I had a blast. I've been looking to branch out in my CC experience. So I said "yes" to a clan and "why the heck not" to a bunch of tourneys listed by 3 or 4 different organizers. I was even talking to suicidalsnowman over Christmas break about working together to come up with one of our own.

This thread (and I took the hour to read it all) has left me very disheartened. And a tournament that I was really looking forward to on Route 66 has been ditched (I really hope temporarily). That just sucks. I think I get the idea of the issues at hand. But I would like to say a few things as someone new to the tourney scene:

A. As I scrolled down the list I loved the variety. I absolutely loved it. I literally thought, "dang, this is awesome, look at all the choice."

B. When I saw multiple tourneys being offered by a few players I thought, "man, they are really supportive of this, how fantastic is that!"

C. I feel, as a novice to this aspect of what CC has to offer, that more is better. If there were fewer I would have hesitated in joining the 5 or 6 that I did this week out of concern that I was going to make a fool of myself among elite players who are crammed into far fewer games.

I hope you guys can work this out in an amiable way. I would hate to see this section crash and burn.

Meh. Not sure I added much here, but thanks for letting me share my thoughts.

E.

[PepeAtila]

I didnt read too much in the topic (I am sorry) but my oppinion is:
Each organizer knows his limits, but of course the spread of a lot of this "easy" tournaments at the same time is decreasing the "quality" of the tournaments, so my opinion is in this way Tournament directors should control the proliferation of this same type & same organizator & same time tournaments.
Behind all of this is also the medals achievement, ...
1.- I dont understand why an organizer can be also winner of his own tournaments.
2.- Medals should be not 1 each tournament ... when other medals are 'easy' to get the first but difficulty is increasing.

On the other hand, I think the organizers are doing a good job (in general), but still asking for one different place to "Create Tournament" and a next step is to move the apropiated to "Join Tournament" depending on the needs and after test them.