mnduke secret diplomacy [warned]

[jefjef]

shall we go after teal in our middle east game and then battle eachother???

by MNDuke
on Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:45 am

Game 5572960 from 9/13/09 - 10/18/09

Wolfpack

If this is not Secret Diplomacy than nothing is. This was not posted out of frustration or emotion. It was something that should have been in chat.

I didn't spend a whole 5 minutes to find a cheat on MNduke. I was researching the original complaint but sorry when I saw this I had to share it.

It's commendable that you come to defend a friend. But to sling arrogance in our faces and IGNORE what this is is bullshit. Sorry I couldn't ignore it. I have nothing against MN. Heck I'm in a team game with him right now and supported his complaint in another thread.

I'm sure this was just a chat with a pal and not a regular strategy of his but its still wrong. It is a cheat and he knows better.

[MNDuke]

shall we go after teal in our middle east game and then battle eachother???

by MNDuke
on Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:45 am

Game 5572960 from 9/13/09 - 10/18/09

Wolfpack

If this is not Secret Diplomacy than nothing is. This was not posted out of frustration or emotion. It was something that should have been in chat.

I didn't spend a whole 5 minutes to find a cheat on MNduke. I was researching the original complaint but sorry when I say this I had to share it.

It's commendable that you come to defend a friend. But to sling arrogance in our faces and IGNORE what this is is bullshit. Sorry I couldn't ignore it. I have nothing against MN. Heck I'm in a team game with him right now and supported his complaint in another thread.

But this is wrong. It is a cheat and he knows better.

You researched what I wrote on his wall, but did not follow through and check the game....had you, you would have found evidence to the contrary. Also, there was no correspondence back and forth between me and him. We never agreed to anything. So, I'd say it's pretty hard to cheat or team up secretly when only one person knows what's going on. You kind of have to be on the same page for it work, which we clearly were not. Best I can tell you, I was thinking out loud.

Please note that 2 days after posting such on marimorann's wall I was publicly against him in the game chat and again 2 days later. It's hard to say what my intentions were 4 months and 800 games ago (which at that time, I had no idea what secret diplomacy was. Lack of experience). But, a cheat, I am not.

2009-10-09 00:31:55 - MNDuke: teal I hope you do the right thing and go after red...he is clearly going to run away with this and we will both lose

2009-10-11 03:02:52 - MNDuke: you do realize teal that when red wins you lose more points

Red in this case = marimorgrann

Your evidence is far from concrete. Please provide something more substantial before calling me a cheat, because that is just rude and nothing more than an allegation. You can call me an alleged cheat if it so serves you.

[jefjef]

I did research it and compared it to the game.

That wall post was Oct 7th.

The game chat note was Oct. 9th.

I acknowledged earlier in this thread that I do not believe Marimor should be included in this complaint.

I am not saying you are a cheat. I said posting that an a wall is a cheat. I do not believe this is a standard tactic of yours. If I thought that I would have you on foe.

If it's decided that it's nothing I won't be yelling about it.

[MNDuke]

Can you please show how I followed through on such actions in the game. I believe that just posting such statements on a wall, unethical as it may be is not a violation if there is no action taken in the game to follow through on said statements. If so, are we to take every wall posting literally? What I am trying to say is prove that I acted on my wall statements. I think you will be hard pressed to do so.

[jefjef]

Rule #2: No secret diplomacy

Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand. Diplomacy includes, but is not limited to: proposing truces, negotiating alliances, and coordinating assaults.

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Acted upon or not. It was a proposal to ally and attack cyan. It was not in game chat.

[MNDuke]

Rule #2: No secret diplomacy

Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand. Diplomacy includes, but is not limited to: proposing truces, negotiating alliances, and coordinating assaults.

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Acted upon or not. It was a proposal to ally and attack cyan. It was not in game chat.

To me that implies communication between two parties. It was a one way communication. There was never any response or action taken regarding my lone statement. Granted it was a mistake, but nothing ever came to fruition. I would say we are in the grey zone and there is nothing clear cut about this.

If going to church makes me a christian, does going to the garage make me a car?

[Beckytheblondie]

If going to church makes me a christian, does going to the garage make me a car?

Is that rhetorical? Of course not. I went to the US Virgin Islands and it did the opposite of make me a virgin. Don't tell Howard.

[jefjef]

Rule #2: No secret diplomacy

Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand. Diplomacy includes, but is not limited to: proposing truces, negotiating alliances, and coordinating assaults.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Acted upon or not. It was a proposal to ally and attack cyan. It was not in game chat.

To me that implies communication between two parties. It was a one way communication. There was never any response or action taken regarding my lone statement. Granted it was a mistake, but nothing ever came to fruition. I would say we are in the grey zone and there is nothing clear cut about this.

If going to church makes me a christian, does going to the garage make me a car?

proposing truces

[MNDuke]

shall we go after teal in our middle east game and then battle eachother???

by MNDuke
on Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:45 am

I'd say that its hard to determine that if what I stated here was proposing a truce. I could see how one could reach that conclusion as to that's what I meant. But on the other hand, I never said "truce", or "allies" or "let's not attack each other". You could argue that it was implied, but to say that's what I meant by such a statement could be reading into it. I'm just saying that its a little vague and open to interpretation as to what I meant. I think the meaning of this statement is unclear and if this is the best evidence against me, the case is weak at best and should be dropped unless something more incriminating is produced.

[jefjef]

shall we go after teal in our middle east game and then battle eachother???

by MNDuke
on Wed Oct 07, 2009 10:45 am

I'd say that its hard to determine that if what I stated here was proposing a truce. I could see how one could reach that conclusion as to that's what I meant. But on the other hand, I never said "truce", or "allies" or "let's not attack each other". You could argue that it was implied, but to say that's what I meant by such a statement could be reading into it. I'm just saying that its a little vague and open to interpretation as to what I meant. I think the meaning of this statement is unclear and if this is the best evidence against me, the case is weak at best and should be dropped unless something more incriminating is produced.

C'mon duke.

Shall we go after teal = shall WE attack TEAL?

and then battle each other = After TEAL is attacked by US then WE can fight each other.

It's pretty obvious and others have been warned for less precisely worded diplomacies.

I'm sorry. I don't feel you use secret diplomacy to win your games. But you did wall your buddy.

Some peeps use the "n" word and aren't necessarily racists. Should we ignore and let those vague comments pass too?

You were very specific about attacking teal and then having each other to fight.

[MNDuke]

"Shall we attack teal" to me means we should probably be concerned that if we don't do something this game is his. And who is to say I wasn't talking about Ghost Recon or Halo 3 on Xbox live. No game was ever mentioned. No names spoken. Nothing definitive can be gathered. Merely speculation from one statement. At best, you are assuming your conclusions based off of your inferences from a wall posting.

You have your opinion and I have mine. I don't feel that one can determine and clear meaning from that one statement and as said before its definitely in the grey zone if nor further evidence can be presented.

Also, you can hardly gather from my statement that I was proposing that our attacks should be limited to teal. The option to attack each other was still there. I never said don't attack me and I won't attack you. Once again, you can ASSUME that's what intended but you can't definitively say that's what I meant.

[wolfpack0530]

well there jefx2, i understand where you are coming from. letter of the law. duke did indeed propose a truce on a wall instead of the game chat. However, nothing came of it, the truce was not realized, and fair play ensued on that instance.

If i were the mod, i would mark this thread "noted". If Duke was dumb enough to try this again, he would rightfully deserve a "warning".

However, i think that this situation has heightened everyones awareness, and duke will not be posting anything about truces on walls again. Really, this is a case of what 'could have been', and not what actually happened. What happened was alot of tough talk and no real cheating. The mods have real cheaters to go after, duke is not one of them.

I will respectfully bow out of this conversation and let the mods handle it, but anything worse than a warning, and i will find that to be excessive and unfair.

And the mods dont want the wolf coming after them. i got a bad case of the fleas and they bite. That isnt the worst of it, if my fleas attack you, they only go after the anus

[lord voldemort]

Duke has been warned...Any and all diplomacy must be done in game chat...Simple as that