Nobunaga wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:you are posting this again, why?
The bottom line is that Canada's healthcare system has NO BEARING at all on the US plans. It is not the kind of system suggested here. Yet, you keep bringing it up.
... Were you paying attention you would see that the Canadian system of single payer absolutely is the final goal of what is being proposed.
Were YOU paying attention to reality instead of the blather put forth by the insurance lobbies you would see this is not true.
FURTHERMORE, the Canadien system goes a good deal further than just a "single payer system". And is absolutely not anything that anyone with sense would embrace in the US.
Nobunaga wrote:[
... Not all at once, of course. Too many Americans yet cling to this idiotic backwoods notion that a host of other measures, such as lifting the state restriction, would do more to help more people than a government run system. Too damned many of these tea-bagging redneck racists around to do this all at once.
As opposed to thinking that health care can actually be fixed by "Chicago-style", competition rules, capitalistic ideas. Problem with YOUR thinking is that the rest of the world provides plenty of proof you are wrong. In fact, even the current US system, if you really look at where it fails, shows that this is not about simply introducing competition.
For one thing, as long as employers and not individuals are buying insurance, it is not even close to a consumer market system. Second, people don't have the luxury of "shopping around" for most healthcare, for all sorts of reasons. This article pointed to one of the few exceptions, but in most cases people don't have those options for reasons that have nothing to do with insurance payments. (but insurance restrictions absolutely complicate the system!)
Nobunaga wrote:... First you (you = government) offer an expanded government plan through things such as reductions in age limitations for medicare and the like, and offer a government plan that will cover anybody with any previous condition while mandating through law that all insurance providers also provide coverage for such. And you call this "competition".
And no, I don't call it "competition". I call it "universal coverage of health care". AND I call it a far cheaper alternative for all but the lucky few who are currently given full coverage -- a lucky few who are shrinking and who, too often, find they have paid for years into a company policy that is suddenly cancelled when its needed.... followed by ALL companies denying coverage in the future unless the person pays exhorbitant fees.
Claiming that this represents a "loss" because some people don't need all that coverage is like claiming that you lose when your house doesn't burn down! True, but... a very stupid argument, none-the-less!
Nobunaga wrote:... Then you watch private insurers drop like flies, because unlike government, they have bottom lines that actually have to be in the black in order to survive.
Like they have in Germany and France... ??? (hint-- they HAVE NOT!)
No, the truth is that insurance companies will be seeing their incomes drop phenomenally. This is a huge threat to them, but represents savings that can be then applied to HEALTH CARE instead of executive salaries and stockholder dividends.
Nobunaga wrote:... And then what remains? Whaddaya know? Single payer.
...
Oh, I see.. just like every other country on Earth?
Well... no. Furthermore, single payer is not this terrible boondoggle you keep insisting it must be. You criticize those systems, but don't seriously look at how things work in other countries.
Why don't you compare that to what happens now, what will happen if we continue to let the INSURANCE COMPANIES dictate the rules. (Note, I definitely did NOT say "doctors" or "health care professionals!" dictate!)
Right now, we have so many people uninsured and UNDERINSURED that most cities, counties and states are ready to go bankrupt. NOTE that this is not about the "idiot deralict who won't work" -- ironically, they, or at least their kids, DO get 100% coverage right now and pretty decent coverage at that! (they get eye, dental and EVERYTHING) No, the people who are hit the hardest are the small business owners, the low-income WORKERS, and many others who pay into insurance, then get really really sick. The insurance companies then scour through their policies to find even the minutest of errors and use that as reason to
retroactively deny a policy in effect for years.
Oh, and who PAYS for that garbage? ALL OF US! WE pay because doctors now need to have an AVERAGE of 8 additional people in their office simply to fill out insurance claim forms!
